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Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

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Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 26320
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Fellow RV-er's,



There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it.  I've been considering just having the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look.  Lots of guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts come from Van's powercoated.  But what are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the interior parts.  I've used Variprime on most of the backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating.  Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces?



And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters?  I would like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get riveted on pretty late in the building process.  I would like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid scratches.  But again, once things are wired, is coating going to make a mess?  Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once their installed...



The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating.  I think its upwards of 450 degrees F.  What impact will that temperature have on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, clamps, etc?



I'm in quite a dilemma over this.  I really want to wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good looking job.  For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed.  But riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying...



Thanks for any insight...



Matt Dralle

RV-8 # 82880

Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install

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Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator

rv9jim(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Matt,

        I think the weight will be to much.  I used a water based

urethane and it is tough as nails.  Its a flat white and has sruvived my

build in good condition.

Jim Nelson

RV9-A

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Dale Ensing

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Aero Plantation Weddington NC

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Matt,

I agree with Jim. I think it would be a significant weight increase to 

powder coat.

Dale Ensing

RV-6A



---

_________________
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Aero Plantation
Weddington NC

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:03 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Dale Ensing wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Matt,

 I agree with Jim. I think it would be a significant weight increase to 

 powder coat.


	




What impact would the powder coat oven (450*?) have on the heat treating 

of the aluminum alloy?



There are several good paints that work very nicely in the interior of 

our planes.



Sam Buchanan

btemplin(at)templinelectr
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Disturbing the heat treatment is the problem with powder coat for something like this.  43.13 4-54b says: 

"Reheating of 2017 and 2024 alloys above 212 °F tend to impair the original heat treatment. Therefore, reheating above 212 °F, including the baking of primers, is not acceptable without subsequent complete and correct heat treatment." 

I have a decent sized powder coating setup in my garage and I powder coat LOTS of stuff for aircraft, but I do always try to be mindful of this.  I asked a good friend who is in the heat treating business if this was fact or fiction.  He indicated that it could start the change the heat treatment of those alloys and he would avoid doing it. 

For some little bracket or whatever it should be fine, but I don't think I'd do it on the airframe. 

Brad

 	  Quote: 	

 Dale Ensing wrote:

 > 

 >

 > Matt,

 > I agree with Jim. I think it would be a significant weight increase to

 > powder coat.

 What impact would the powder coat oven (450*?) have on the heat treating

 of the aluminum alloy?

 There are several good paints that work very nicely in the interior of

 our planes.

 Sam Buchanan

dauscj(at)nb.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:01 am Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Matt,



  I own/operate a powdercoating facility. There are many low E or low cure

powders on the market (300 deg. F. temp for 12 minute cure) that would help

with the heat treat issues. My biggest concern is weight. I would guess

15-25 lbs. With the lower cure temp I don't think distortion or artificially

aging (heat treat) would be a big concern (the aluminum will age by itself

over time any way). Some other concerns are the thickness; if you have any

parts that fit together I am sure they will not. You could have the coater

mask off these areas or have them give you some high temp. tape and you do

it your self. Make sure the coater properly pretreats (degrease and etch and

dry) your fuselage before applying the powder. Lastly, if for some reason

your aircraft ever gets real hot the powder will burn and the fumes that

powder gives off are very unpleasant. Oh, one more thing, powder hides

cracks very well. 



Just a few things to consider, 

Chuck 



RV6A FWF



Do not archive  



--

chaskuss(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Matt,

 The big issue with powder coating or paint is the quality of the prep work. If the shop doesn't do great prep work, you will have a real mess on your hands.

Charlie Kuss

--- On Mon, 10/20/08, Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating?  When?

 To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Monday, October 20, 2008, 8:11 PM

 

 <dralle(at)matronics.com>

 

 

 Fellow RV-er's,

 

 There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an

 oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it. 

 I've been considering just having the whole inside

 powercoated for the durability, and sweet look.  Lots of

 guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of

 the steel parts come from Van's powercoated.  But what

 are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the

 interior parts.  I've used Variprime on most of the

 backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the

 occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating. 

 Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces?

 

 And when's the right time to take it down to the

 powercoaters?  I would like to have most things riveted that

 need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over

 the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get

 riveted on pretty late in the building process.  I would

 like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at

 least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid

 scratches.  But again, once things are wired, is coating

 going to make a mess?  Its not like the harnesses can really

 be removed once their installed...

 

 The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the

 powercoating.  I think its upwards of 450 degrees F.  What

 impact will that temperature have on the various parts that

 go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings,

 clamps, etc?

 

 I'm in quite a dilemma over this.  I really want to

 wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the

 powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not

 be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good

 looking job.  For example, the rear floor boards should

 probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should

 be removed.  But riveting the floorboards is something

 I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying...

 

 Thanks for any insight...

 

 Matt Dralle

 RV-8 # 82880

 Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install

 

 


	


__________________________________________________

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Chuck closed with the most important point.  Powdercoat makes the

inspection of welds and crack propagation a real BEAR.  Consider that

when Pro/Con (weighing) the durability to environmentals and increased

gross weight.  Sure looks pretty though.



John Cox

IA



--

Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 26320
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Thanks for all the great feedback on powercoating the interior!  I think I'm going to skip powercoating the interior based on everyone's feedback.



I had a conversation with my local body shop guy who I've know for nearly 20 years.  He was very willing to take on the project and basically said that we could work out an arrangement where I could do most of the supervised prep work in his shop and then he would simply supply the paint and the skill in applying it.  Sounds like a good deal to me.  He has a really nice, large sealed paint booth that the -8 will fit right into.  He has completely repainted two cars for me in the past and his skill is superb.  He was saying that he recently painted a guys Rotoway helecopter.



Still, the "when" is a question mark.  I want to delay as long as possible, but I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything or worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint.



Matt Dralle

RV-8 #82880



At 05:11 PM 10/20/2008  Monday, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Fellow RV-er's,



There is a powercoating shop here in my town that has an oven large enough to put my whole RV-8 fuselage into it.  I've been considering just having the whole inside powercoated for the durability, and sweet look.  Lots of guys powercoat the instrument panel and obviously most of the steel parts come from Van's powercoated.  But what are the upsides and downsides of powercoating all of the interior parts.  I've used Variprime on most of the backsides of the interior parts, but I've left the occupant facing parts bare in prep for the powercoating.  Will the powercoat chip off easily on the bend-y pieces?



And when's the right time to take it down to the powercoaters?  I would like to have most things riveted that need riveting before the coating like the forward deck over the instrument panel and the aft turtledeck, but these get riveted on pretty late in the building process.  I would like to have all of the wiring and controls installed or at least fabbed and trial fitted before coating to avoid scratches.  But again, once things are wired, is coating going to make a mess?  Its not like the harnesses can really be removed once their installed...



The other concern is the heat necessary to bake on the powercoating.  I think its upwards of 450 degrees F.  What impact will that temperature have on the various parts that go into the fuselage such as the aeronuts, plastic bushings, clamps, etc?



I'm in quite a dilemma over this.  I really want to wait as long as possible to avoid scratches and chips in the powercoating, but I don't want to wait too long and not be able to disassemble things to the point of making a good looking job.  For example, the rear floor boards should probably be riveted down, but any screwed in panels should be removed.  But riveting the floorboards is something I'd probably prefer to do the day before test flying...



Thanks for any insight...



Matt Dralle

RV-8 # 82880

Trutrak Auto Pilot Servo and Aileron Electric Trim Install


	


Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551

925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email

http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft

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Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Matt Dralle wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

snip
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Still, the "when" is a question mark.  I want to delay as long as possible, but I don't want to wait too long and have to completely disassemble everything or worse yet *wish* that I could disassemble things for paint.

   

I think everyone wrestles with this one!  When I painted my Pitts, I did 
	


it before it was assembled ..... much easier to handle the 'smaller' 

pieces in the paint booth.  I'll probably paint the -10 the same way.  

My shop is at home and the airport about a mile away, and I've pondered 

getting the Sheriff to lead me as I taxi down the road .... or after a 

part is painted, move that part to the airport for assembly.  I have 

friends that still have their plane painted in primer years after they 

started flying ..... you hate to take a flying pland apart for paint, 

and painting it assembled means some places won't get paint .... and 

primer without paint MAY allow corrosion.  So, at this point I'll have 

everything in base coat color when it's assembled to fly .... and it may 

have the trim at that point also.

Linn

 	  Quote: 	
		   Matt Dralle

 RV-8 #82880

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

As far as painting the interior I would wait as long as possible.  I found that I was in and out of the aircraft, tools, screws, etc can really scratch up an interior quick.  You can mask the panel and wiring, etc...just be sure you have all of your interior mods, drilling, etc done.  I've been doing some mods to my RV-4 and will repaint the interior soon, but I'm waiting as long as possible until I get everything done. 



Paul Besing

RV-4 N73DD

Arizona



---

winkels(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Interior Painting - Powercoating? When?

Matt, I have had several steel and aluminum parts powder coated on my RV-7,

and I asked my powder coater about the limitations of powder coating. He

said he would be very hesitant to powder coat anything thinner than about

.063" aluminum because the heat can cause deformation, especially in larger

parts. I am no expert, but I don't think it would be advisable to place your

assembled fuselage into a 400 degree oven!!! I certainly wouldn't do it. 



Also, powder coating can add considerably more weight than priming/painting.



By the way, I had my assembled brake pedals powder coated with excellent

results. My instrument panel will also get powder coated (before the

instruments are installed, of course . Other than the slider canopy latch

hook, that's about the extent of aluminum parts I'll powder coat. Of the

steel parts powder coated, I've done the tailwheel spring and fork assembly,

slider canopy frame and roll bar, and canopy latch handle, but that's about

it.



Hope this helps,

Paul





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