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406 ELT

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Charles Heathco

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 201

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: 406 ELT

I believe its now clear that we will not be  required to have the new elt, unless flying to canada maybe. I was wondering  what the folks on here are thinking about installing, or not? At this time I am  leaning to Not. I havent seen any good indicators that ELTS have saved any ones  bacon. Do know of several times they have ben acidently set off, did it once  myself but caught it after couple mins and notified tower. Charlie Heathco,  Fayetteville Ar 

   [quote][b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: 406 ELT

Having pondered the dilemma, I'll probably go with a modified 406 Mhz 

PLB.  I see no reason to install a 'traditional' ELT that, as Charlie 

says, doesn't add anything to the survivability.  AFAIK, the traditional 

ELT May help find the bodies less problematic.  But I said 'modified'.  

The only thing wrong with the PLBs is that they have no G switch, so 

I'll modify my PLB with a homemade G switch.  If you already have the 

'traditional' ELT, then I see no reason to change ...... the CAP will 

(may) find your remains, and if you survive the crash I think you should 

be able to get on the radio and call for help.

Linn



Charles Heathco wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I believe its now clear that we will not be required to have the new 

 elt, unless flying to canada maybe. I was wondering what the folks on 

 here are thinking about installing, or not? At this time I am leaning 

 to Not. I havent seen any good indicators that ELTS have saved any 

 ones bacon. Do know of several times they have ben acidently set off, 

 did it once myself but caught it after couple mins and notified tower. 

 Charlie Heathco, Fayetteville Ar 

 *

 *

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: 406 ELT

I won't install one.  I have a 406 MHz PLB with integrated GPS.

At some point in the future I will install an APRS system which

provides exact coordinates when on and stations pick up the signal.



A Spot system offers similar benefits using different communications links

(satellite).



Ron Lee

gmcjetpilot

Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 170

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: 406 ELT

Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie. 

   

  I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because they are registered and more accurate.

   

  Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT, because no one will hear it. The satellites for the old ELT's are going way regardless of our Goverments ineffectualness in mandating the change. Even if the USA does not require the 406, the world has moved on, except for may be a few military sattalites, there will not be any sattalites looking for you. I think 406 will be mandated at some point, just not next year as originally  stated.

   

  If you live in the wild west or remote areas with rugged terrain get a 406. If all you do is fly the flat lands near your airport than it's less critical. (would steve fossett have been found ssoner with a 406? I don't know, may be if the ELT was in the most aft end of the plane? He flew straight into a mountain. He had no chance of survival, but it sure would have been nice to find the wreckage sooner than later for all involved. The cost of S&R was over a million.)

   

  The fact is the chance of being saved with the old ELT is far less than the new 406. Yes ELT's have failed and not worked. Yes some crashes are not survivable, however there is another factor. The cost of searching for your body and the stress on your family. There is some value to not burdening society and your family.

   

  You can get a PLB as an adjunct or aid. They are NOT AS GOOD AS  A HARD MOUNTED 406 ELT UNIT. Yes they have good specs on paper but their antenna is a big compromise as is their battery. They are under a PLB spec. You could argue if you crash and get out, but the plane burns to the ground than a PLB is nice. That exact thing happend to a well known mountain flying instructor and his student. Crashed, got out, plane burned. All their survivial gear and ELT gone. Lesson wear a survival vest with the gear on your person. 

   

  Clearly having both the PLB and 406 aircraft ELT would be best. PLB's are not a lot cheaper than a 406 elt about $600-$700 verses $1000. Of course you have to remember to turn a PLB on. If you carsh suddenly, don't activate it and are knocked out, than you are toast.

   

  There is the private SPOT system as well, which is a pay service and does give tracking. They are cheaper to buy but the fee adds up.

   

   It's only money. More 406's are coming onto the market and cost about $1000. I hope they get better and cheaper with more features (like GPS position standard). With aircraft stuff I doubt the price will come down.

   

  George

   

   

  >From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		  Subject: 406  ELT



I believe its now clear that we will not be required to have the new 

elt, unless flying to canada maybe. I was wondering what the folks on 

here are thinking about installing, or not?


	


           [quote][b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: 406 ELT

Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were 

NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs 

were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the 

status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in 

8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference, 

feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults alarms, 

but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the 

government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much 

about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The 

effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in 

real life.

People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a 

satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to 

monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd 

think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not.

At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product 

gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down.



gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost 

 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The 

 fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will 

 have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie.

  

 I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults 

 alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because 

 they are registered and more accurate.

  

 Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT, 

 because no one will hear it.

 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

pbesing(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: 406 ELT

In the military we monitor 243.0 as well...and there are alot of military aircraft in the skies at any one time.

  

 Paul Besing



 

   From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 5:50:36 PM

Subject: Re: Re: 406 ELT



--> RV-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>



Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were 

NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs 

were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the 

status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in 

8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference, 

feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults  alarms, 

but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the 

government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much 

about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The 

effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in 

real life.

People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a 

satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to 

monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd 

think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not.

At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product 

gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down.



gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com (gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com) wrote:

[quote] Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost 

 3 to 4 times as much. They do         [quote][b]

emrath(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:00 am Post subject: 406 ELT

Kelly,



Can you name the company coming out with the $600 ELT, and when they expect

to have this in the marketplace?   I'm needing one very soon for my almost

completed RV-6A.



This July I had an email exchange with Ameri-King's Victor Van, concerning

their development of a 406 mhz unit.  He said they had a 406 model AK-451

selling for $849 ready to ship.  Did anyone take notice of this product, it

was supposed to be displayed during Airventure at the Cessna Aircraft Booth

inside the Cessna Skycatcher.



Seem strange that I've not seen this yet on their web site and that Van's

had not yet added to their Catalog.

Time: 05:51:09 PM PST US

From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

Subject: Re: Re: 406  ELT

Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were 

NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs 

were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the 

status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in 

8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference, 

feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults alarms, 

but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the 

government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much 

about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The 

effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in 

real life.

People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a 

satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to 

monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd 

think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not.

At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product 

gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down.



gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost

 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The 

 fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will 

 have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie.

  

 I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults

 alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because 

 they are registered and more accurate.

  

 Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT,

 because no one will hear it.

 *

 *

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: 406 ELT

http://www.ackavionics.com/index.html

Emrath wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Kelly,

 Can you name the company coming out with the $600 ELT, and when they expect

 to have this in the marketplace?   I'm needing one very soon for my almost

 completed RV-6A.

 This July I had an email exchange with Ameri-King's Victor Van, concerning

 their development of a 406 mhz unit.  He said they had a 406 model AK-451

 selling for $849 ready to ship.  Did anyone take notice of this product, it

 was supposed to be displayed during Airventure at the Cessna Aircraft Booth

 inside the Cessna Skycatcher.

 Seem strange that I've not seen this yet on their web site and that Van's

 had not yet added to their Catalog.

 Time: 05:51:09 PM PST US

 From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

 Subject: Re: Re: 406  ELT

 Some folks are too young to know or remember that the original ELTs were 

 NEVER designed to be detected by satellites. Only 15 years after ELTs 

 were mandated was satellites monitoring introduced. So you revert to the 

 status ELTs had before 1985. If you really believe that being rescued in 

 8-12 hours rather than 24 hours is going to make that big a difference, 

 feel free to spend the money. ELTs haven't had too many faults alarms, 

 but a lot of false alarms. Some of us actually flew before the 

 government cared whether anyone found us or not. You don't know much 

 about radios if you believe 100mw is only a walkie talkie range. The 

 effective power of that ELT is about as good as your handheld radios in 

 real life.

 People will still look for you, it just won't be on the basis of a 

 satellite sounding the alarm. Airliners will still be required to 

 monitor the frequency. ATC facilities will still have the frequency. I'd 

 think a jet pilot would know this, but guess not.

 At least one company has published a MSRP of $600 once their product 

 gets its TSO certification, so the market just might drive prices down.

 gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:

> Here is my opinion. If you are buying a new, get the 406. The do cost

> 3 to 4 times as much. They do have 5 yr batteries which is good. The 

> fact still remains, satellites are going dark, and really all you will 

> have is a 100mw 121.5 elt that has a range of a kids walkie talkie.

>  

> I won't go into why 406 is better technically, but the cost for faults

> alarms every year is huge. The 406 is suppose to reduce this because 

> they are registered and more accurate.

>  

> Bottom line is people will not be looking for you with an old ELT,

> because no one will hear it.

> *

> *

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: 406 ELT

Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT.  



However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of

crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to.  It is 

not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if you die.



If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an

inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements.



Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service.  An alternative

is APRS but coverage may not be as good.  It is less expensive.  You 

have to evaluate each and determine which is better.  



Ron Lee

acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:47 am Post subject: 406 ELT

Of course, as a ham radio operator, I deplore the use of  APRS UNLESS 

the user has an amateur radio license as IS REQUIRED by FCC rules.  We 

hams have had to endure "pirate" use of our frequencies for years.  So, 

if you do wish to use APRS, take a few days to study and pass your ham 

ticket and then go crazy with APRS.  It could be a very useful tool 

should you ever find yourself in the need!  Plus, you'll have another 

hobby should you lose your medical   DO NOT ARCHIVE



Scott

Amateur radio station N0EDV



Ron Lee wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Personally I have no concern whether someone buys a 406 MHz ELT. 

 However, if the assertion that ELTs do not activate in around 50% of

 crashes is factual, why spend more on an ELT than you need to.  It is 

 not a reliable device to save you if you live or recover you if you die.



 If either of these two scenarios concern you then I suggest buying an

 inexpensive 121.5 MHz ELT just to satisfy FAA requirements.



 Then buy a Spot system and get the tracking service.  An alternative

 is APRS but coverage may not be as good.  It is less expensive.  You 

 have to evaluate each and determine which is better. 

 Ron Lee






	


-- 

Scott

http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/

Flying Corben Junior Ace - Building RV-4

Gotta Fly or Gonna Die

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: 406 ELT

I never suggested using APRS without a license but should have

mentioned that a HAM license is required.  That may drive people

to the Spot solution.



Thanks for reminding me of that important element.



Ron Lee



---

acepilot(at)bloomer.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: 406 ELT

Hi Ron,

Oops...hope it didn't come off like I was personally attacking the 

messenger (You!)...That's one of the bad things with the 

Internet...there is no feedback that the other person can pick up and 

decide the context of the communication.  I was only trying to point out 

that a license is required (as you noted) and I SURELY didn't mean to 

imply that you were suggesting anything illegal.  Please accept my 

apology if you took personal offense to what I wrote before!!!  None was 

intended!!  I personally think APRS has value although I don't use it as 

of yet.  I'd LOVE to see others get a ham ticket and explore some of the 

many facets of ham radio.  After all, we all need something to do on 

rainy days   If anyone wants to see some of the stuff I'm doing on ham 

radio, see http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/ and click on "My Ham Radio 

Page" link in the left column.



DO NOT ARCHIVE this one either 



Scott

Ron Lee wrote:



[quote] 



 I never suggested using APRS without a license but should have

 mentioned that a HAM license is required.  That may drive people

 to the Spot solution.



 Thanks for reminding me of that important element.



 Ron Lee



 ---

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: 406 ELT

No problem.   I should have mentioned the need for a license 

whenever I mention APRS and hopefully will every time in the future.



Ron Lee



Do not archive



---

gcomfo(at)tc3net.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: 406 ELT

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