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Aileron hinge wear

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

On the two Europa XS's in Norway with more than 20  hours flying time, the outer hinge on both ailerons on both aircraft has  developed noticeable wear.  When the ailerons were mounted, no play  was noticed - not-perfect alignment of the two hinges removed the play that  exists in these MS-hinges even when new.  The ailerons were carefully  balanced after filling and painting, as per the BM.

  

 No wear is noticed on the inner aileron hinges, nor on the rudder or trim  tab hinges.  

  

 We have both monitored this carefully,  without discovering any increased play over the roughly 50 + hours flown since  first discovering this.  However, this does not rule out that wear may  continue at a low rate.

  

 The outer hinge is fitted a fair distance from  the tip.  Even with tight outer hinge, the tip may be moved easily up  or down without applying much force due to the flexibility of the aileron's  structure.

  

 Could the cause of this be small vibrations in the  outer, unsupported part of the aileron when activating the aileron  (i.e. not streamlined aft of the wing)?

  

 Even if the outer hinges were tight, the  flexibility "does not look right".  I have not found any other aircraft  design at my local field where the ailerons flex like this.

  

 I have now fitted an additional, third hinge on  each aileron, at the tip and of the same type and length as the original  outer hinge (which I have left in place).

  

  

 Anyone else with similar experience?

  

 Svein

 LN-SKJ

  

  

   [quote][b]

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:17 pm Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Svein,

 Interesting to hear you concern. When I was  building my 'Classic' about 9 years ago now I was with Kim Prout

 in LA, USA looking at his finished aircraft. His  father was there also, retired aerodynamicist with McDonnell Douglas, and  

 his comment regarding the aileron was there was  a definite need for an extra middle hinge located slightly closer to the  inner hinge.

 I incorporated this straight away and there  has been no flexibility you talk of, nor wear.

 So your additional third hinge is needed and  should solve your problem.

  

 Cheers,

  

 Tim

  

 Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch

NEW  ZEALAND

PH 0064 3 3515166

MOB 021 0640221

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)

 [quote]   ---

lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Hi Svein

You take out the hinge-pin, form it as an "S" (app. 20 deg. on each bend), and tap it careful back in the hinge  -  after that you have solved the problem.

Regards Gert

OY-GDS



Den 22/10/2008 kl. 08.38 skrev Sidsel & Svein Johnsen:

 	  Quote: 	
		  On the two Europa XS's in Norway with more than 20 hours flying time, the outer hinge on both ailerons on both aircraft has developed noticeable wear.  When the ailerons were mounted, no play was noticed - not-perfect alignment of the two hinges removed the play that exists in these MS-hinges even when new.  The ailerons were carefully balanced after filling and painting, as per the BM.

 

No wear is noticed on the inner aileron hinges, nor on the rudder or trim tab hinges. 

 

We have both monitored this carefully, without discovering any increased play over the roughly 50 + hours flown since first discovering this.  However, this does not rule out that wear may continue at a low rate.

 

The outer hinge is fitted a fair distance from the tip.  Even with tight outer hinge, the tip may be moved easily up or down without applying much force due to the flexibility of the aileron's structure.

 

Could the cause of this be small vibrations in the outer, unsupported part of the aileron when activating the aileron (i.e. not streamlined aft of the wing)?

 

Even if the outer hinges were tight, the flexibility "does not look right".  I have not found any other aircraft design at my local field where the ailerons flex like this.

 

I have now fitted an additional, third hinge on each aileron, at the tip and of the same type and length as the original outer hinge (which I have left in place).

 

 

Anyone else with similar experience?

 

Svein

LN-SKJ



	


 [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:28 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Hi! Gert   

The most simple and lightest way!  

Except close inspection should prevail to identify any actual oval holes later in life before the Aileron departs !  

Regards  

Bob Harrison   

   

Do not archive.  

   

--

sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Gert,

  

 Thanks, but isn't that like taking paracetamol to  reduce the fever without curing the illness?

  

 Best regards,

 Svein

 [quote]   ---

lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:15 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Correct.A fix for that is to mount teflon-covered pins, but that is hell of a job ..

/Gert

OY-GDS



Den 22/10/2008 kl. 16.27 skrev Robert C Harrison:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi! Gert

The most simple and lightest way!

Except close inspection should prevail to identify any actual oval holes later in life before the Aileron departs !

Regards

Bob Harrison

	


 [quote][b]

lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

No, because the wear comes due to vibrations - and that problem is fixed with the "S" thing./Gert

OY-GDS



Den 22/10/2008 kl. 17.02 skrev Sidsel & Svein Johnsen:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Gert,

 

Thanks, but isn't that like taking paracetamol to reduce the fever without curing the illness?

 

Best regards,

Svein

	


 [quote][b]

kevann(at)gotsky.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

I thought installing stainless steel welding rod covered with teflon was 

not too difficult, and my ailerons have a smooth, low friction feel.

Thanks Terry and Dave for the lead on that!



Kevin, back from summer work in AK and ready to resume flight testing N211KA



Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Correct.

 A fix for that is to mount teflon-covered pins, but that is hell of a 

 job ...

 /Gert

 OY-GDS



 Den 22/10/2008 kl. 16.27 skrev Robert C Harrison:



> Hi! Gert

> The most simple and lightest way!

> Except close inspection should prevail to identify any actual oval 

> holes later in life before the Aileron departs !

> Regards

> Bob Harrison



 *

 *

s(at)vestuti.orangehome.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

I'm fairly certain that you can buy over size hinge wire, i'll see if i 

can find it listed and post back,



steve #573

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Svein,

  

 My aircraft has flown 620 hours and yes there is some play due  to hinge wear on ailerons and trim tabs. I know some other Europas with less  than 200 hours which have developped the same problem.  

 I am not too much concerned about the play due to aileron  hinge wear because in flight the load is causing both the wing  and the aileron to flex and therefore the play is annihilated.  You  can (at least partially) reproduce this on the ground: just lift the wingtip  upwards and move the aileron.

 However I am concerned about the play in the trim  tab hinges as it cumulates with the play which has developped at the fork  connecting the T bar to the bellcrank TS03.  Any suggestion (other than  replacing all those parts every 100 hours) would be welcome.

  

 Remi Guerner

  

 F-PGKL

  

  

  

 

""On the two Europa XS's in Norway with more than  20 hours flying time, 

the outer hinge on both ailerons on both aircraft has  developed 

noticeable wear.  When the ailerons were mounted, no play was  noticed - 

not-perfect alignment of the two hinges removed the play that  exists in 

these MS-hinges even when new.  The ailerons were carefully  balanced 

after filling and painting, as per the BM.



No wear is  noticed on the inner aileron hinges, nor on the rudder or 

trim tab  hinges.  



We have both monitored this carefully, without discovering  any increased 

play over the roughly 50 + hours flown since first discovering  this.  

However, this does not rule out that wear may continue at a low  rate.



The outer hinge is fitted a fair distance from the tip.  Even  with tight 

outer hinge, the tip may be moved easily up or down without  applying 

much force due to the flexibility of the aileron's  structure.



Could the cause of this be small vibrations in the outer,  unsupported 

part of the aileron when activating the aileron (i.e. not  streamlined 

aft of the wing)?



Even if the outer hinges were tight,  the flexibility "does not look 

right".  I have not found any other  aircraft design at my local field 

where the ailerons flex like  this.



I have now fitted an additional, third hinge on each aileron, at  the tip 

and of the same type and length as the original outer hinge (which I  

have left in place)."""



    [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Svein

 You take out the hinge-pin, form it as an "S" (app. 20 deg. on each 

 bend), and tap it careful back in the hinge  -  after that you have 

 solved the problem.

 Regards Gert

 OY-GDS

This used to happen with the EZs. Some aircraft had their ailerons 
	


"buzz" vibrate within the boundary layer. Putting a Flettner strip on 

cured it but most of them fixed it by using a Teflon tube same OD as the 

original hinge wire and filling that with a stainless hinge pin. Andy 

Draper did research it but had trouble fining the right wire.

You could try emailing Gary Hall,

http://www.uslan.com/hinge-kit.html

AFAIK he still sells the kits.



Bill Theeringer used to do kits too,

The teflon sleeving is 14 gauge electrical, has an OD of 0.125, a wall 

thickness of 0.010, an ID of 0.105,

and uses a 0.094 302 SS welding rod pin.  This results in a 0.011 slop 

around the pin.  I recomend cutting the teflon at each hinge juncture so

the teflon is captivated and rotates aroind the pin.  Mine has over 1000 

hours on it and shows no sign of wear.  You can put a warp in the pin to

eliminate the slight slop, but I think this will result in pressure 

points that will facilitate wear.  My personal opinion only. 



Graham

sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Thank you very much, Graham - I always appreciate your views and 

suggestions.



For now, I will closely monitor the new third hinges (as well as all the 

others, of course!) and see whether the slop appears also on these.



Best regards,

Svein



---

lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Taht is not the way to go.

You have to bend the wire as an "S" and tap it back in the hinge.

/GDS

OY-GDS





Den 22/10/2008 kl. 21.30 skrev steve v:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm fairly certain that you can buy over size hinge wire, i'll see  

 if i

 can find it listed and post back,



 steve #573

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

Email address of Gary Hall does not work.

 From the Cozy list archive I understand that the parts can be procured 

from McMasterCarr:

teflon sleeve: 5335K17, ID 0.066" (1.6764 mm), wall 0.012", OD 0.090" 

(2.286 mm), $2.30 per 10 feet

pin: 7972A261, 1/16" (1.5875 mm), $17.60 forr 32 lengths of 3 feet

McMasterCarr does not ship overseas anymore so a US builder might 

intermediate.

The diameters are smaller than the ones you mention Graham, but more 

likely to be correct?

Could it be that you have larger hinges than MS20001?

I measure hinge ID of MS20001 at about 1.8 or 1.9 mm, regular pin OD at 

about 1.5 or 1.6 mm.

Inserting the teflon sleeve proposed above will be a stretch already.

A question also arises concerning the pin proposed above - diameter 

seems rather similar to that of the regular pin.

Jan de Jong

Graham Singleton wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

 Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard wrote:

> Hi Svein

> You take out the hinge-pin, form it as an "S" (app. 20 deg. on each 

> bend), and tap it careful back in the hinge  -  after that you have 

> solved the problem.

> Regards Gert

> OY-GDS

 This used to happen with the EZs. Some aircraft had their ailerons 

 "buzz" vibrate within the boundary layer. Putting a Flettner strip on 

 cured it but most of them fixed it by using a Teflon tube same OD as 

 the original hinge wire and filling that with a stainless hinge pin. 

 Andy Draper did research it but had trouble fining the right wire.

 You could try emailing Gary Hall,

 http://www.uslan.com/hinge-kit.html

 AFAIK he still sells the kits.

 Bill Theeringer used to do kits too,

 The teflon sleeving is 14 gauge electrical, has an OD of 0.125, a wall 

 thickness of 0.010, an ID of 0.105,

 and uses a 0.094 302 SS welding rod pin.  This results in a 0.011 slop 

 around the pin.  I recomend cutting the teflon at each hinge juncture so

 the teflon is captivated and rotates aroind the pin.  Mine has over 

 1000 hours on it and shows no sign of wear.  You can put a warp in the 

 pin to

 eliminate the slight slop, but I think this will result in pressure 

 points that will facilitate wear.  My personal opinion only.

 Graham

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Aileron hinge wear

We added the third hinge, per Kim Prout's suggestion, and  installed teflon tubing on our hinge pins, as described in the following  URL.  With over 600 hours now on the plane, we have had no problems with  the aileron hinges.  Still tight hinges and no need to lube.  We also  did this mod recently on our motor glider wings, which was not that difficult,  once you get the hang of if.

  

 http://terryseaver.home.comcast.net/~terryseaver/N135TD_mods.htm#Teflon_sleeving_for_hinge_pins

  

 regards,

 Terry Seaver

  



   From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lisbet og  Gert Dalgaard

Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:13 AM

To:  europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Aileron hinge  wear

 

Correct. A fix for that is to mount teflon-covered pins, but that is hell of a job  ..

 /Gert

 OY-GDS

 

  Den 22/10/2008 kl. 16.27 skrev Robert C Harrison:

 [quote]   Hi!    Gert

   The most simple and    lightest way!

   Except close    inspection should prevail to identify any actual oval holes later in life    before the Aileron departs !

   Regards

   Bob    Harrison





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