Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Hi  Everyone,

  

 Last night I managed to  stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.  

  

 I finally had to go to  bed when I found this issue.  The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not  allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.

  

 I'm considering knocking  off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly,  however I wanted to pick your brain.

  

 1) Did you experience  this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?

2) How did you fix  it?

  

 Thanks,

 Phil

Picture003_sized.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

101.91 KB

Viewed:

387 Time(s)

Picture002_sized.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

110.59 KB

Viewed:

388 Time(s)

carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

This is where you use shims.  Take some .032” and .025” scrap aluminum and cut into small squares, say ¾” by ¾” but you can trim them to fit as needed.  Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime.  Insert the shim between the rib and the skin.  In some places you will need to use two shims.  

   

The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet (without having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your photos).    

   

The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib, you need a shim.  

   

Carl Froehlich  

RV-8A (475 hrs)  

RV-10 (fuselage)  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil

 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin  

  

  

       

Hi Everyone,  

    

   

    

Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.    

    

   

    

I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue.  The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.  

    

   

    

I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.  

    

   

    

1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?

 2) How did you fix it?  

    

   

    

Thanks,  

    

Phil  

    

   

  

  

        [quote][b]

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Thanks Carl.

  

 I'm actually getting some small outward dents where the  corners of the bulkheads are pressing against the inside of the  skins.

  

 Do I shim to the point where the corners are lifted from  the skin?  Or do I leave the corners pressing against the skin and shim the  gap only?

  

 I'm guessing option 1.....

  

 Phil

  

  

  



   From: Carl Froehlich  [mailto:carl.froehlich(at)cox.net] 

Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008  6:59 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RV10-List:  Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

 

  

This is where you use shims.   Take some .032” and .025” scrap aluminum and cut into small squares, say ¾” by  ¾” but you can trim them to fit as needed.  Drill and dimple a hole in the  center of the square and then prime.  Insert the shim between the rib and  the skin.  In some places you will need to use two  shims. 

  

The shims make the difference in  having a nice curve in the skin as it follows the rib instead of flat spots  where you drove in the rivet (without having anything in the gap between the  skin and rib as shown in your photos).   

  

The rule is if you can squeeze a  shim in between the skin and the rib, you need a shim. 

  

Carl  Froehlich 

RV-8A (475  hrs) 

RV-10  (fuselage) 

    

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry,  Phil

Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Fitting Bulkheads to  Skin



 

    

Hi  Everyone,

  

 

  

Last night I  managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.   

  

 

  

I finally had  to go to bed when I found this issue.  The shape of the bulkhead flanges do  not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage  skin.

  

 

  

I'm considering  knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins  correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.

  

 

  

1) Did you  experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?

2) How  did you fix it?

  

 

  

Thanks,

  

Phil

  

 

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

[b]

carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

For corners that severe you might want to so some minor rounding of the rib’s sharp edges using a scotch bright wheel in addition to using a shim.  

   

Carl  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil

 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:21 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin  

  

  

   

Thanks Carl.  

   

I'm actually getting some small outward dents where the corners of the bulkheads are pressing against the inside of the skins.  

   

Do I shim to the point where the corners are lifted from the skin?  Or do I leave the corners pressing against the skin and shim the gap only?  

   

I'm guessing option 1.....  

   

Phil  

   

   

   

       

  

From: Carl Froehlich [mailto:carl.froehlich(at)cox.net] 

 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 6:59 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin  

This is where you use shims.  Take some .032” and .025” scrap aluminum and cut into small squares, say ¾” by ¾” but you can trim them to fit as needed.  Drill and dimple a hole in the center of the square and then prime.  Insert the shim between the rib and the skin.  In some places you will need to use two shims.  

   

The shims make the difference in having a nice curve in the skin as it follows the rib instead of flat spots where you drove in the rivet (without having anything in the gap between the skin and rib as shown in your photos).    

   

The rule is if you can squeeze a shim in between the skin and the rib, you need a shim.  

   

Carl Froehlich  

RV-8A (475 hrs)  

RV-10 (fuselage)  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry, Phil

 Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:37 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin  

  

  

       

Hi Everyone,  

    

   

    

Last night I managed to stay awake until 2Am working on the tailcone.    

    

   

    

I finally had to go to bed when I found this issue.  The shape of the bulkhead flanges do not allow the flange to sit correctly against the fuselage skin.  

    

   

    

I'm considering knocking off the corners of the flanges and letting it sit against the skins correctly, however I wanted to pick your brain.  

    

   

    

1) Did you experience this same gap, or do I have poorly manufactured product?

 2) How did you fix it?  

    

   

    

Thanks,  

    

Phil  

    

   

  

   	  Quote: 	
		    href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com   	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
7

        [quote][b]

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

I think If I remember back about 4 years ago...I saw the same thing and hand bent the tabs so they were rounded...this is not the only place you will run into this...I used the hand seamer on edge to make the tabs rounded so the skin laid flat across the bulkheads tabs. I remember because the tab center whre the hole is was too far for the cleco to reach and get a good grip...man the little things you can recall after four years..once you bend the tabs, run the whole thing across the scotchbrite wheel to make a nice smooth raduis for the skin to rest and remove any sharp edges for the tab to dig into the skin. 

Rick Sked 

40185

---

Bill Cannon

Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 11
Location: New Jersey

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Hey Phil,



I saw this subject on VAF a while back.  The discussion there went towards using liquid shim.  Did you consider that?  I'll be getting to where you are soon enough.  Let me know.  It's nice having an advance scout.



Bill

avu1(at)md.metrocast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:20 am Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

I can't remember either but I think Rick is correct.  I would check the

instructions again.  I think you're supposed to flute those tabs.  Try

that first to reduce the amount of shimming required.

Anh

40141-Flying



[quote]



 I think If I remember back about 4 years ago...I saw the same thing and

 hand bent the tabs so they were rounded...this is not the only place you

 will run into this...I used the hand seamer on edgeÂ to make the tabs

 rounded so the skin laid flat across the bulkheads tabs. I remember

 because the tab center whre the hole is was too far for the cleco to reach

 and get a good grip...man the little things you can recall after four

 years..once you bend the tabs, run the whole thing across the scotchbrite

 wheel to make a nice smooth raduis for the skin to rest and remove any

 sharp edges for the tab to dig into the skin.



 Rick Sked



 40185

 ---

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

I remember doing that last year. Fluting is the answer.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

I completed my tailcone riveting in Aug and fluting does help.  I also used a rubber grommet while riveting to allow me to push the tab and the skin together and it came out great.  If you decide to shim, recommend going the liquid shim route--you can use epoxy and flox quite easily to make the shim.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Were you fluting the edges of each tab?  Just to bend them slightly away

from the skin?



I'm thinking of fluting and then using some epoxy and flox to fill the

gap during assembly.



Thanks for the advice.



Phil

 



--

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

I recall this step well and fluting the tabs helps a lot. However, some of the rivets still "suck up" the skin into rather unsightly indentations. This was especially noticeable around the small bulkhead just fwd of the aft deck. 



The local tech counselor suggested lightly tapping a beveled 3/4" dowel with a sand filled mallet against the affected rivet shop heads. The indents popped right out and the skin is now flush. I didn't shim anything.



Jay

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: Fitting Bulkheads to Skin

Thought I'd share you the feedback from Vans...



Phil

-----------------------------------------



Phil,



File or hammer down the corners of the flanges so that they don't make

the outward dent in the skin, then shim the flange to make the bulkhead

fit the skin better.



Bruce 

-----------------------------------------

 



--

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum