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Cutting & buffing

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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: Cutting & buffing

Ok, John Cox prompted the question when talking of Deems' spectacular paint job.     

How do you cut and buff without exposing rivet heads??  Most aircraft I have seen that have come out of a paint shop after some rework have too much paint removed over the rivet heads, leaving many nicely polished but unpainted..  

In my paint job, I have a number of rivets where the paint has not flowed into the rivet countersink properly and look like they have 'black rings' around the rivet head.  Not many, but very obvious in the White paint.  What causes this and how to fix?  There has really been precious little discussion in this forum about painting techniques and problems.  Tim's site (as always) is a starting point, but what other sources of info are there??  

Cheers,  

Ron  

187, almost done painting   [quote]"Warning:

The information contained in this email and any attached files is

confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended

recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any

attachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this email

in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been

taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,

however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the

sender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure virus

checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to

your computer."



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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: Cutting & buffing

1500 to 2000 grit "wet" and dry.  A discerning eye, a light loving touch, years of experience and the desire not to reshoot the work.  After knocking about 50% to 75% of the natural clearcoat orange peel off , you read the white foam that floats off with the constant water rinse.  Then, you buff it using no less than three different cuts of Mequire's compounds.  One of our RV-10 dinners will feature the Mequires rep showing exactly that process.  They leave Free samples.   

   

 The real secret is to lay enough clearcoat to sacrifice over the color topcoat.  Oh, did I mention that clearcoat adds weight, increases gloss, protects the topcoat too.  

   

I have had a lot better result with a poly foam pad rather than the lambs wool of my youth.  My hotrod days are long gone and I have had my share of zealous over-buffing.  I now know when to put down the tool and resort to elbow grease and Karate Kid moves.  Compound ON/ Compound Off.  

   

John  

   

   

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron

 Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:32 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Cutting & buffing  

  

  

   

Ok, John Cox prompted the question when talking of Deems' spectacular paint job.    

How do you cut and buff without exposing rivet heads??  Most aircraft I have seen that have come out of a paint shop after some rework have too much paint removed over the rivet heads, leaving many nicely polished but unpainted..  

In my paint job, I have a number of rivets where the paint has not flowed into the rivet countersink properly and look like they have 'black rings' around the rivet head.  Not many, but very obvious in the White paint.  What causes this and how to fix?  There has really been precious little discussion in this forum about painting techniques and problems.  Tim's site (as always) is a starting point, but what other sources of info are there??  

Cheers, 

 Ron 

 187, almost done painting   [quote]"Warning:The information contained in this email and any attached files isconfidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or anyattachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this emailin error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has beentaken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not thesender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure viruschecks are completed before installing any data sent in this email toyour computer."   [b][b][b][b]http://www.matronics.com/contribution[b][b][b][/b][/b][/b][/b][b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[b][/b][b]http://forums.matronics.com[b][b]

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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: Cutting & buffing

Go to sleep John!!!!  WTF was that???   ;)Rick S 40185Do not archive

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From:  "John Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>

Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 22:01:38 -0800

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cutting & buffing

1500 to 2000 grit "wet" and dry.  A = discerning eye, a light loving touch, years of experience and the desire not to = reshoot the work.  After knocking about 50% to 75% of the natural clearcoat = orange peel off , you read the white foam that floats off with the constant = water rinse.  Then, you buff it using no less than three different cuts = of Mequire's compounds.  One of our RV-10 dinners will feature the = Mequires rep showing exactly that process.  They leave Free samples. = 

 The real secret is to lay enough clearcoat to = sacrifice over the color topcoat.  Oh, did I mention that clearcoat adds = weight, increases gloss, protects the topcoat too. 

I have had a lot better result with a poly foam pad = rather than the lambs wool of my youth.  My hotrod days are long gone and I = have had my share of zealous over-buffing.  I now know when to put down the = tool and resort to elbow grease and Karate Kid moves.  Compound ON/ Compound = Off. 

John 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of =McGANN, Ron

Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 9:32 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10-List: Cutting & buffing 

Ok, John Cox prompted the question when talking of Deems' spectacular paint job.   

How do you cut and buff without exposing rivet heads??  Most aircraft I = have seen that have come out of a paint shop after some rework have too much = paint removed over the rivet heads, leaving many nicely polished but = unpainted.. 

In my paint job, I have a number of rivets where the paint has not flowed = into the rivet countersink properly and look like they have 'black rings' around = the rivet head.  Not many, but very obvious in the White paint.  = What causes this and how to fix?  There has really been precious little = discussion in this forum about painting techniques and problems.  Tim's site (as = always) is a starting point, but what other sources of info are = there?? 

Cheers,

Ron =

187, = almost done painting   	  Quote: 	
		  "Warning:The information contained in this email and = any attached files isconfidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intendedrecipient, any use, disclosure or copying of = this email or anyattachments is expressly prohibited.  If = you have received this emailin error, please notify us immediately. = VIRUS: Every care has beentaken to ensure this email and its = attachments are virus free,however, any loss or damage incurred in using = this email is not thesender's responsibility.  It is your = responsibility to ensure viruschecks are completed before installing any = data sent in this email toThe information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and = any attached files is 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you = are not the intended 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of = this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of = this email or any 	
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6

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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Cutting & buffing

Well you can do what I'm doing.. Learned it at OSH looking at a trick fast back RV 8. Wipe proseal into each. Rivet line...clean with MEK. Really not as time consuming as you think.Rick. S

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

From:  "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com>

Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:01:31 +1030

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RV10-List: Cutting & buffing

 

Ok, John Cox prompted the question when ta= lking of Deems' spectacular paint job.   

How do you cut and buff without exposing r= ivet heads??  Most aircraft I have seen that have come out of a paint = shop after some rework have too much paint removed over the rivet heads, le= aving many nicely polished but unpainted.. 

In my paint job, I have a number of rivets=  where the paint has not flowed into the rivet countersink properly and loo= k like they have 'black rings' around the rivet head.  Not many, but v= ery obvious in the White paint.  What causes this and how to fix?&nbsp= ; There has really been precious little discussion in this forum about pain= ting techniques and problems.  Tim's site (as always) is a starting po= int, but what other sources of info are there?? 

Cheers, 

Ron 

187, almost done painting  	  Quote: 	
		  "Warning: The information contained in this email and any attached files is confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any attachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this email in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free, however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the sender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure virus checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to your computer."   _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _-=3D _-=3D       -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- _-=3D           (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) _-=3D _-=3D   November is the Annual List Fund Raiser.  Click on _-=3D   the Contribution link below to find out more about _-=3D   this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts! _-=3D _-=3D   List Contribution Web Site: _-=3D _-=3D   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-=3D _-=3D   Thank you for your generous support! _-=3D _-=3D                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _-=3D _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _-=3D          - The RV10-List Email Forum - _-=3D Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse _-=3D the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, _-=3D Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, _-=3D Photoshare, and much much more: _-=3D _-=3D   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List _-=3D _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _-=3D               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - _-=3D Same great content also available via the Web Forums! _-=3D _-=3D   --> http://forums.matronics.com _-=3D _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: Cutting & buffing

Thanks John - great feedback.



I am not using a clear coat - just a base of solid white, so no clear to protect from over zealous buffing.



I have used 2000 grit wet on a DA sander followed up by Meguiars M105 Ultra Cut - truly amazing stuff.  Works brilliantly on the composites, but a little too aggressive on the rivet heads.  



cheers,

Ron



--

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dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: Cutting & buffing

Just a reminder; if you don't want to see rivet heads in  your cowl where there are hinges, cover them with a glass tape after riveting.  If not the rivet heads will work through the paint after about a hundred hours  or so.How do I know? missed four rivets around the oil door on my Glastar. Did  not miss any on the cowl or the top on the 10.

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN,  Ron

Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 10:32 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Cutting &  buffing

Ok, John Cox prompted the question when talking of  Deems' spectacular paint job.   

How do you cut and buff without exposing rivet  heads??  Most aircraft I have seen that have come out of a paint shop after  some rework have too much paint removed over the rivet heads, leaving many  nicely polished but unpainted.. 

In my paint job, I have a number of rivets where the  paint has not flowed into the rivet countersink properly and look like they have  'black rings' around the rivet head.  Not many, but very obvious in the  White paint.  What causes this and how to fix?  There has really been  precious little discussion in this forum about painting techniques and  problems.  Tim's site (as always) is a starting point, but what other  sources of info are there?? 

Cheers, 

Ron  

187, almost done painting [quote]"Warning:

The information contained in this email and any attached files is

confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended

recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any

attachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this email

in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been

taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,

however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the

sender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure virus

checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to

your computer."

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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RandyL

Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 4

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: Cutting & buffing

Another approach:  don't use clearcoat and don't cut n  buff. Take the time in shooting to flow the paint correctly to get that virgin  wet look. Then you'll never have to worry about rivet heads, no unsightly  buffing compound in the cracks and around the rivets that can never be  removed, lighter weight without the clearcoat, and easier to blend in  should repairs ever be needed. Of course a cut-n-buff job on an RV-10 must take  forever those things are so huge. 

  

 I've painted three RVs this way and all came out good and get  frequent compliments. I had to do a repair on a section of the lower cowl on my  RV-8 and was able to blend it in so that it literally could not be seen (spray  pure reducer over the repaired area right after you shoot the  paint).

  

 Info here...

 http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Paint/paint.html

 http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Paint.htm

  

 Personally, I don't think you can ever get a cut-n-buff  surface to look quite as glossy as the wet look of properly flowed  paint.

  

 FWIW,

 Randy Lervold

  

  

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