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Weight and Balance Questions

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

Guess I should check spelling before sending!Sorry about thatI finally get around to getting an official weight and balance for myairplane.  But it has lead to a few questions.(1)  I find in surprising that vans RV-10 sample WB pdf does not have arms forthe nose wheel and the mains.  Do they expect those to be differentfrom one builder to another?  I could not find any spreadsheets fromother builders showing what their moment arms were.  Yes I know I amsupposed to measure this but I want to compare my results to someothers.  My nose wheel arm ended up being 50.125" forward of theleading edge (99.440 based on Vans numbers) which makes my nose wheel arm49.315.  My mains are back 24" from the wing LE making my mainsarm 123.440".  What did others measure?(2) So now I weigh the airplane (using certified scales) and I find the empty CG wayforward (102.46").  I expected the forward CG but not quite that much.  Even with me as the sole occupant and half fuel, I need to have 100 lbs in the baggage area just to get the CG back to the most forward allowable (107.84").  Now I played with the numbers andit does allow one to really load up the airplane for maximum capabilities, but wow I didn't expect to have to load up the baggage area on the first flights.  Did others find the same conditions?If one were to take off on the first flight and not check the CG, it would make for aninteresting landing!  Looks like carrying passengers on the flights is not only good but maybe even required unless I want to carry around some extra weight (couple of 5 gallon water containers).Very interesting!Jim CombsN312F, 40192   [quote][b]

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions

Jim,



That empty CG sound WAY forward!  Here's the link to a DB with data from several RV-10 W&B (including mine).  What were your individual wheel weights?  BTW, the numbers that I have show the following Arms for the gear - nose: 50.44", left main: 124.31", right main: 124.44".



Bob

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions

More helpful if the link is actually in the email...

http://www.rvproject.com/wab/



Bob

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

Jim, is your airplane close to the same configuration as Vans?  If it is, I do not see how you got it to 102.46.  I will send you my WB in PM.  

     

Rene'  

801-721-6080  

  

   

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

408 on the nose wheel and 547 on the mains.  That puts us at an empty weight of 1502 lbs.  These differ quite a bit from some of the other spreadsheets I have received from other builders.I have not painted the airplane and the interior is basically untouched.  Plans are to do the interior (that be carpeting and decorating stuff) after flying a few hours.  Both of these would add significant weight aft of the CG.  Also we are using a Hartzel 2 blade prop (Not the blended airfoil)  on a IO-540-C4B5 (Not new) with the original Lycoming starter.Maybe with all these affects added together, we have a really heavy front end.I have access to another set of scales and may re-weigh just to make sure of the numbers.Thanks, Jim C     [quote][b]

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

Rene and Bob,Thanks, for the info.  I now have some numbers to compare to.  My moment arms match up with yours very well.  The weights however do appear to indicate a pretty nose heavy airplane.I will get a second set of scales and do it all again just to confirm or deny the numbers.  The scales I used were just recently certified, so I believe they should be accurate.Maybe we will just have to go ahead and put the interior in too.  Right now it's just a lot of painted metal.Jim C   [quote][b]

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions

Might go without saying, but also double check the aircraft attitude when it's on the scales - should be level and that can make a huge difference!



bob

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

It was level.But I will continue the investigation!Thanks, Jim C [quote][b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

And one needs to be certain that it is flight level, however Van's 

defines that. On some aircraft models, taxi level is not flight level.



bcondrey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Might go without saying, but also double check the aircraft attitude when it's on the scales - should be level and that can make a huge difference!



 bob





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 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 10428#210428

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

I usually re weigh my planes 2 or 3 times just to make sure I had no side load on any of the scales.  Side load can give huge errors.  

   

Gary Specketer  

40274 Flying  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim

 Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:16 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Weight and Balance Questions  

  

   

It was level.

 

 But I will continue the investigation!

 

 Thanks, Jim C    	  Quote: 	
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dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions

We weighed the airplane today and I appear to be the proud owner of the "fattest" RV-10 in the fleet. 1769 lbs. No surprise since we have the Flightline AC air conditioner and the SafeAir1 extended range tip tanks. Empty CG came in at 109.38.

This weight and balance was with full interior, wheel pants and fairings, and no paint.

About how much will paint add to this weight?

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

Now wait just one minute.  That title was formerly held two years ago by

Tim and we are all waiting for Ed Hayden to officially post his John

Strain, onboard comfort system.



For tonight and just tonight, the winner is currently 1769 and may your

luxurious Flying Lexus, serve you well.



I would estimate that Deems has about 12 pounds of clearcoat

(meticulously cut and buffed).  No offense intended.



John Cox

#40600



Do not Archive



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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

Excuse me, was that Phatist?



--

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Questions

John Cox wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  For tonight and just tonight, the winner is currently 1769 and may your

luxurious Flying Lexus, serve you well. 	




We will bask in our 15 minutes of fame

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Dick Sipp

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Hope, MI

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Questions

Paint weight will vary quite a bit depending on the painter and process; my 

guess is a minimum of 25 lbs.

(That is what the paint on my 4 weighed) I still need to reweigh mine now 

that it has paint and will have a better idea.

Dick Sipp 40065 N110DV

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