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debrun26(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: New Member

I just signed up since I'm planning to buy a kitfox here in Alaska.  I've never flown before and would like to learn how in my own little plane to save $ and be well aquanted with what I'll be using.  My plan is to have the plane on floats in summer and skiis during the winter.  The kitfoxIV I'm looking at has a 912UL in it.  Is this practical and is it hard to find an instructor that will train on an experimental tail dragger?  Also, what is a good pricerange for a kitfox... what should I look out for?  Do you know of other kitfox owners in Alaska?   Thanks,  Layne Cropper  

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



I just signed up since I'm planning to buy a kitfox here in Alaska. I've never flown before and would like to learn how in my own little plane to save $ and be well aquanted with what I'll be using. My plan is to have the plane on floats in summer and skiis during the winter. The kitfoxIV I'm looking at has a 912UL in it. Is this practical and is it hard to find an instructor that will train on an experimental tail dragger?Also, what is a good pricerange for a kitfox... what should I look out for? Do you know of other kitfox ownersin Alaska? Thanks, Layne Cropper 



Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

aldaniels(at)fmtc.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: New Member

There are several in Alaska, but Alaska is big. Where are you.



debrun26(at)juno.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



I just signed up since I'm planning to buy a kitfox here in Alaska.  I've never flown before and would like to learn how in my own little plane to save $ and be well aquanted with what I'll be using.  My plan is to have the plane on floats in summer and skiis during the winter.  The kitfoxIV I'm looking at has a 912UL in it.  Is this practical and is it hard to find an instructor that will train on an experimental tail dragger?  Also, what is a good pricerange for a kitfox... what should I look out for?  Do you know of other kitfox owners in Alaska?   Thanks,  Layne Cropper  

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



I just signed up since I'm planning to buy a kitfox here in Alaska. I've never flown before and would like to learn how in my own little plane to save $ and be well aquanted with what I'll be using. My plan is to have the plane on floats in summer and skiis during the winter. The kitfoxIV I'm looking at has a 912UL in it. Is this practical and is it hard to find an instructor that will train on an experimental tail dragger?Also, what is a good pricerange for a kitfox... what should I look out for? Do you know of other kitfox ownersin Alaska? Thanks, Layne Cropper 



Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: New Member

I did a similar thing. I started out my training in a 172 and transitioned to a Kitfox after the solo. Starting out in a 172 actually slowed me down because I then had to unlearn a bit in order transition to a light tail dragger. Landing a Kitfox is a very different experience. After my second lesson in my Kitfox, I was still struggling just to keep her on the centerline. I felt compelled at one point to tell my instructor that I wasn't lying about having flown an airplane before. His response was "Yep. Ye aint gotcher taining wheels no more". 



As for finding an instructor.. I had a heck of a time myself. I’m very lucky that the one guy I did find ended up being an excellent instructor.  It took me three tries to find a decent instructor when I was training in a 172.



Just one thing: Can you start off on wheels? Seems like a lot to learn at once to start up on floats or skiis.



-Luis R

-N824KF



 	  Quote: 	
		  I've never flown before and would like to learn how in my own little plane to save $ and be well aquanted with what I'll be using. My plan is to have the plane on floats in summer and skiis during the winter. The kitfoxIV I'm looking at has a 912UL in it. Is this practical and is it hard to find an instructor that will train on an experimental tail dragger?

debrun26(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: New Member

Yes... I would be staring on wheels then much later go to skiis... then floats.  how did you go about finding your instructor?

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



Yes... I would be staring on wheels then much later go to skiis... then floats. how did you go about finding your instructor?



Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

debrun26(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: New Member

I'm in anchorage along with 2/3 of the population.  thanks for the reply!!!   Layne

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



I'm in anchorage along with 2/3 of the population. thanks for the reply!!! Layne



Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: New Member

I did most of my training in 150/152s, with a little in 172s, but I have

never flown a taildragger.



Last month I got my float rating in a Cub Crafters Top Cub down here in

Seattle.



The training wasn't that hard of a transition, and in fact my instructor

even suggested that going from a trike to floats to a dragger was easier for

most people than going from a trike to a dragger.



On 3/7/06, wingnut <wingnut(at)spamarrest.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 I did a similar thing. I started out my training in a 172 and transitioned

 to a Kitfox after the solo. Starting out in a 172 actually slowed me down

 because I then had to unlearn a bit in order transition to a light tail

 dragger. Landing a Kitfox is a very different experience. After my second

 lesson in my Kitfox, I was still struggling just to keep her on the

 centerline. I felt compelled at one point to tell my instructor that I

 wasn't lying about having flown an airplane before. His response was "Yep.

 Ye aint gotcher taining wheels no more".



 As for finding an instructor.. I had a heck of a time myself. Im very

 lucky that the one guy I did find ended up being an excellent

 instructor.  It took me three tries to find a decent instructor when I was

 training in a 172.



 Just one thing: Can you start off on wheels? Seems like a lot to learn at

 once to start up on floats or skiis.



 -Luis R

 -N824KF

 > I've never flown before and would like to learn how in my own little

 plane to save $ and be well aquanted with what I'll be using. My plan is to

 have the plane on floats in summer and skiis during the winter. The kitfoxIV

 I'm looking at has a 912UL in it. Is this practical and is it hard to find

 an instructor that will train on an experimental tail dragger?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D20181#20181

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: New Member

I searched long and hard in various venus (including the AOPA and EAA web sites). In the end the only thing that worked was visiting the local airports and talking to the locals. 



 	  Quote: 	
		  how did you go about finding your instructor?

debrun26(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: New Member

Thanks... I'll give it a shot.

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



Thanks... I'll give it a shot.



Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

AMuller589(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: New Member

fly before buy. I have 6000 hours an this is the most difficult airplane  for 

landings i ever flew.

debrun26(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: New Member

6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying.  What model is your kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics?  That worries me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license.  There is a kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.  Does this sound like a fare deal. 

Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal.



Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: New Member

Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got 

from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought 

you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it 

just me?



Lynn

do not archive



On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09  AM, debrun26(at)juno.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <debrun26(at)juno.com>



 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying.  What model is your 

 kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics?  That worries 

 me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license.  There is a 

 kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.  

 Does this sound like a fare deal.

 Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!



 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your 

 kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me 

 cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a 

 kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does 

 this sound like a fare deal.



 Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: New Member

I think it's a setting the email program that is sending both plain text 

and html. Then the Matronics List program strips the html and we see 2 

plain text forms of the message. Does that sound correct  to our list 

janitors?

 Lynn will need to change the settings to just send plain text for email 

to this list. Ask if you need help finding this.

Happens to the best of us sometimes,

Rex

Colorado



Lynn Matteson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got 

from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought 

you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it 

just me?



Lynn

do not archive



On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09  AM, debrun26(at)juno.com wrote:



  



>

><debrun26(at)juno.com>

>

>6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying.  What model is your 

>kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics?  That worries 

>me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license.  There is a 

>kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.  

>Does this sound like a fare deal.

>Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

>

>6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your 

>kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me 

>cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a 

>kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does 

>this sound like a fare deal.

>

>Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

>

>    

>



 

 

 





  




	


-- 

Karla and Rex Hefferan

Gypsy Bee Innkeepers

719-651-5198 or 719-651-9192

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:20 am Post subject: New Member

At the risk of hurting someone's feelings - if so ,sorry.   Numbers of hours 

in nose draggers has no relationship to landing a taildragger especially if 

the hours are in heavy metal.  You could have a million and still have 

difficulty transitioning to tailwheel.   It's not even apples and oranges - 

more like watermellons and bannanas.  My friend that flys a Skylane says he 

never touches the rudder pedals.  In a tail wheel airplane the rudder pedals 

are primary controls in take off and landing in a tail dragger.  It would be 

fun to watch him in the early  stages of transition training.  I learned in 

a Cessna 170-B - a tail wheel Cessna for those really new to flying.  And 

went through a Citabria then to my Kitfox with no problems.



Consider that in the old days every pilot learned in a tail wheel airplane.



For those that are having real problems in that transition, check the wheel 

alignment.  A subject discussed at length on the list.  Significant 

unrecognized toe in has discouraged lots of folks and has resulted in 

perfectly good - otherwise - Kitfoxes being on the market.



In my opinion a Kitfox would be a perfectly fine airplane for primary 

training and $32,000 for a nice clean Model IV with a R-912 is, also in my 

opinion, right in the ball park.  I happen to own one and that figure is 

displayed on my insurance policy



Lowell

---

wingnut

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 356

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Re: New Member

 	  Quote: 	
		  fly before buy. I have 6000 hours an this is the most difficult airplane for landings i ever flew. 	




Wow. Really? What model are you flying? I have a model 4 and it did take me a little while to make the transition. But now that I've done it, I'm glad I stuck with it. Many of my landings are still a little squirrelly but I find it much easier to control my descent than a 172. 



To be honest though, if cost is your primary motivation then a Kitfox might not be the best choice. You can pick up an old 152 or a Aircoupe for much less and they're so easy to fly that you will get through your training much faster. Also, if you plan on getting insurance for your plane, you’re in for a shock. Insurance companies don't like low time pilots flying tail draggers. 



I went with a Kitfox for the performance. For my purposes it is the ideal combination of short field performance while still having enough speed to actually go somewhere. I want to one day land it in my own 1200ft grass strip. If it weren’t for that, I would have started out with something a little more tame.



My advice. Get a plane with training wheels (aka trycicle) get through your training, build some time then sell it and buy the Kitfox 



-Luis

algate(at)attglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: New Member

Most of my time has been on Tail draggers and the hardest thing I found

about a round cowl Kitfox was knowing when the plane was actually aligned

with the runway. The round cowl is extremely misleading as it tapers sharply

in towards the nose. This used to confuse me as I was lining the front side

of the plane with the centerline of the run way which actually meant I was

not parallel with the runway. The plane would of course squirrel all over

the place as I countered with aileron to try and fix the problem (both

landing and taking off).



This is talked about in Ed Down's "how to fly a Kitfox" book and once I

understood the issue all problems went away. I often take off and land on

bush strips that are only 12Ft wide and CIGVW stays as straight as an arrow.



GaryA

Lite2/582

--

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: New Member

Depending on the panel, condition, etc it is in the ballpark.

Hard to comment on the difficult nature of the Kitfox in landing.  I started in Supercubs and at about 15 hours transition in to the Kitfox. The move was not difficult and it was after soloing in the S'cub. The RV 9 lands like a Kitfox, not necessarily difficult, just different..."fly it until it is tied down".



Look for an ag pilot/cfi.  It worked for me. He was 35 miles away at a small rural airport.  The local, building time, instuctors were not tail wheel qualified.



John Kerr

900 hour tail wheel

25 hour tricycle gear



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "debrun26(at)juno.com" <debrun26(at)juno.com> 



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and 

 does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my 

 cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs 

 total time for sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal. 

 

 

 Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! 

 

 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and 

 does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my 

 cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total 

 timefor sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal. 

 

 

 

 Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


	


Depending on the panel, condition, etc it is in the ballpark.

Hard to comment on the difficult nature of the Kitfox in landing. I started in Supercubs and at about 15 hours transition in to the Kitfox. The move was not difficult and it was after soloing in the S'cub. The RV 9 lands like a Kitfox, not necessarily difficult, just different..."fly it until it is tied down".



Look for an ag pilot/cfi. It worked for me. He was 35 miles away at a small rural airport. The local, building time, instuctors were not tail wheel qualified.



John Kerr

900 hour tail wheel

25 hour tricycle gear



-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "debrun26(at)juno.com" debrun26(at)juno.com 



 -- Kitfox-List message posted by: "debrun26(at)juno.com" <DEBRUN26(at)JUNO.COM>

 

 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and 

 does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my 

 cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs 

 total time for sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal. 

 

 

 Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! 

 

 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your kitfox and 

 does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me cause it ruins my 

 cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total 

 tim

 efor sale here for $32,000. Does this sound like a fare deal. 

 

 

 

 Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ============

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: New Member

Ditto

Ditto



   Ron NB Or

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: New Member

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 08:18:56 -0500






Why do all of your posts "print double" ? Every message that I've got

from you shows the same message twice on the same page. Just thought

you'd like to know, and does everybody else see them this way or is it

just me?



Lynn

do not archive



On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 02:09  AM, debrun26(at)juno.com wrote:



 > 

 > <debrun26(at)juno.com>

 >

 > 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying.  What model is your

 > kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics?  That worries

 > me cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license.  There is a

 > kitfoxIV 912 UL with 100hrs total time for sale here for $32,000.

 > Does this sound like a fare deal.

 >

 >

 > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

 >

 > 6000 hrs sounds like 60 years worth of flying. What model is your

 > kitfox and does it matter for landing characteristics? That worries me

 > cause it ruins my cheap way to get my pilots license. There is a

 > kitfoxIV 912UL with 100hrs total timefor sale here for $32,000. Does

 > this sound like a fare deal.

 >

 >

 >

 > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >








	


http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/

Aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: New Member

I think it depends a LOT on which model....

 

I have flown a 2, 4 and 5.  The 2, in my opinion, requires a lot more  skill 

than a 5, especially on pavement, throw in a crosswind...... you better be  

current in tail-dragger techniques

 

The later models have more directional stability both on ground and in air,  

by a lot.

 

Currently, I have about 300 hours in a KF2.  Can, anyone learn to fly  it, of 

course.  One of the great attributes of the KF2 is the very  powerful rudder 

and ailerons.  I have landed in very strong gusty  crosswinds, just do it by 

the book.......   sure its a challenge, but  that's also means rewarding.  I 

also fly a Warrior 2, totally different  challenges.....  but from a stick and 

rudder point of view, I LOVE the  Kitfox. If was too easy, it wouldn't be 

fun....

 

If I was to recommend, get training, get current, choose your days and  use 

grass at first, build skills of time...

 

Dave Patrick KF 2

donpearsall
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: New Member

I think Rex is correct about the double emails.

It is the email settings on his email program. Or perhaps he is using a web

interface for sending email, as I see an ad for Juno within the text. Either

way, the Matronics software strips off the HTML and leaves just the text.



To fix, just have your email settings set to send the list "plain text"

instead of HTML.



Not a biggie, but does take up unnecessary space.

Don Pearsall

List Janitor



--

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: New Member

 	  Quote: 	
		  fly before buy. I have 6000 hours an this is the most difficult 

airplane for landings i ever flew.


	


I'm sure it's all a matter of personal experience, but the 

taildragger Kitfoxes I've flown were a lot easier to land than the 

Aeronca Chief I got my tailwheel endorsement in.  Of course, we later 

discovered that the rudder was mis-rigged on the Chief and only had 

about 1/2 the normal travel in one direction...



People can joke about "training wheels" but my attitude about landing 

gear is: I don't want a plane that's unstable in the air, why would I 

want it to be unstable on the ground?  Fire away, I have my 

flame-vest donned  



Mike G.

N728KF

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