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Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

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John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

Hello list,



Well I think it is time for me to overhaul the Bing 64 carbs on my 912UL.



The engine is running fine.  We have had a stretch of great weather and it is hard to pull the carbs off and quite flying.



I think I am the victim of CRS disease.



One problem I'm having on start up is rough running until enricher (choke) is closed.  I don't remember that in the first couple of hundred hours.  I think it is one of those things that has crept in slowly and gotten to the point it is noticeable now. 



Another little thing is just a barely noticeable miss every now and then at 3000 rpm or less.



I also have to adjust the mixture screw on one carb more than the recommended 1.5 turns to get a good carb balance.



I have attended the ROTAX Maintenance Level I course.  Don't have all the tools or confidence to do it right. 



Has anyone had any experience with Bing Agency in Kansas?

http://www.bingcarburetor.com/

_________________
Thanks too much,

John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA

I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for.

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

John, I went up to Council Groves and met the guys at the Bing Agency. If it's for a Bing, they have it in quantity. Before you start tearing carbs apart, check the carb boots. I had the same problems with my HKS that you're experiencing and found the carb boots were rotten. Multiple cracks and fissures on the inside, outside they looked brand new. 



Rick



On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:16 AM, John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Hello list,

 

 Well I think it is time for me to overhaul the Bing 64 carbs on my 912UL.

 

 The engine is running fine.  We have had a stretch of great weather and it is hard to pull the carbs off and quite flying.

 

 I think I am the victim of CRS disease.

 

 One problem I'm having on start up is rough running until enricher (choke) is closed.  I don't remember that in the first couple of hundred hours.  I think it is one of those things that has crept in slowly and gotten to the point it is noticeable now.

  

 Another little thing is just a barely noticeable miss every now and then at 3000 rpm or less.

 

 I also have to adjust the mixture screw on one carb more than the recommended 1.5 turns to get a good carb balance.

 

 I have attended the ROTAX Maintenance Level I course.  Don't have all the tools or confidence to do it right.

 

 Has anyone had any experience with Bing Agency in Kansas?

 http://www.bingcarburetor.com/

 

 --------

 Thanks too much,

 

 John Bickham

 Mark III-C w/ 912UL

 St. Francisville, LA

 

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as slow as you could have !!!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 [url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 13494#213494]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 13494#213494[/url]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 [b]

John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

Thanks Rick for the suggestions/info.

 

The carb boots were replaced new in April during annual.



I called two folks so far.  Bing Agency (KS) does not overhaul aviation carbs but sells the complete rebuild kit for $380.00.



Ronnie at SMLA suggested that I need to look at re-shimming the gearbox for the the rough running at startup.



More to get done.

vicsv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

Just had that problem John. Close anyway. Take off  your carb bowls, unscrew the idle mixture jet.

 I'll bet it's plugged. You can't even get a piece  of safety wire through that tiny hole. It's out of sight between the main jet  and the idle air adj. screw, which is supposed to stay at 1.5 turns. You can  down load pics and instructions from rotax. Heavy maint(sec 73) manuals  (pdf).

 My engine will now idle at 1350rpm if I wanted it  to. (not recomended). It hasn't idled this good since I first cranked her up.  Now I must re synchronize it.

  

 Vic

 MkIIX 912UL

   [quote][b]

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

Okay, if you have no problem there, did you synch the carbs at annual, both pneumatically and mechanically? Sorry, just going through the basics.



Rick



On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:02 AM, John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)>

  

 Thanks Rick for the suggestions/info.

 

 The carb boots were replaced new in April during annual.

 

 I called two folks so far.  Bing Agency (KS) does not overhaul aviation carbs but sells the complete rebuild kit for $380.00.

 

 Ronnie at SMLA suggested that I need to look at re-shimming the gearbox for the the rough running at startup.

 

 More to get done.

 

 --------

 Thanks too much,

 

 John Bickham

 Mark III-C w/ 912UL

 St. Francisville, LA

 

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as slow as you could have !!!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 [url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 13505#213505]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 13505#213505[/url]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 [b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

> Another little thing is just a barely noticeable miss every now and then 

at 3000 rpm or less.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I also have to adjust the mixture screw on one carb more than the 

 recommended 1.5 turns to get a good carb balance.



 I have attended the ROTAX Maintenance Level I course.  Don't have all the 

 tools or confidence to do it right.



 Has anyone had any experience with Bing Agency in Kansas?

 http://www.bingcarburetor.com/



 --------

 Thanks too much,



 John Bickham


	


John B:



I don't think you adjust carb balance with mixture adjustments.



Contrary to popular belief, I do quite well balancing my carbs mechanically. 

Idle mixture screws are right where the tech at the Rotax Factory set them 

during the initial test run.



My experience with Bing is very similar to my experience with the Dodge 

Boys.  Charge about three or four prices for everything.



Give me a call on my cell phone.  Holler if you need the number.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

JBM makes better quality boots for less money,for ALL Rotax and HKS engines.

From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:32:06 AM

Subject: Re: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

 John, I went up to Council Groves and met the guys at the Bing Agency. If it's for a Bing, they have it in quantity. Before you start tearing carbs apart, check the carb boots. I had the same problems with my HKS that you're experiencing and found the carb boots were rotten. Multiple cracks and fissures on the inside, outside they looked brand new. 

Rick

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:16 AM, John Bickham <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Bickham" <gearbender(at)bellsouth.net (gearbender(at)bellsouth.net)>

 Hello list,

 Well I think it is time for me to overhaul the Bing 64 carbs on my 912UL.

 The engine is running fine.  We have had a stretch of great weather and it is hard to pull the carbs off and quite flying.

 I think I am the victim of CRS disease.

 One problem I'm having on start up is rough running until enricher (choke) is closed.  I don't remember that in the first couple of hundred hours.  I think it is one of those things that has crept in slowly and gotten to the point it is noticeable now.

 Another little thing is just a barely noticeable miss every now and then at 3000 rpm or less.

 I also have to adjust the mixture screw on one carb more than the recommended 1.5 turns to get a good carb balance.

 I have attended the ROTAX Maintenance Level I course.  Don't have all the tools or confidence to do it right.

 Has anyone had any experience with Bing Agency in Kansas?

 http://www.bingcarburetor.com/

 --------

 Thanks too much,

 John Bickham

 Mark III-C w/ 912UL

 St. Francisville, LA

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as slow as you could have !!!

 Read this topic online here:

 [url=http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 13494#213494]http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 13494#213494[/url]

[b]

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

John,



I've done the take-apart, clean, inspect and replace worn parts on Bing 64s several times, including on type certificated Rotax engines. 



STEP 1, (do not omit): Buy Bing's Carb Manual for $10 including shipping. It tells you all you need to know about how the Bing carbs work and how to inspect etc.



STEP 2: It is not hard to do if you are careful and DO ONE CARB AT A TIME or otherwise make sure you keep all the parts of one carb separate from the other. Some of the parts between the left and right carb are not interchangeable. 



STEP 3: After you've taken them apart, cleaned and inspected, you can tell which parts actually need replacement, and buy only those parts. It will probably save you a LOT of money.  I've never needed to buy more than about $30-40 worth of parts for any Bing 64 carb, even on those that have had 2,000 hours in service without overhaul.



BING usually has the highest prices on parts. Shop around and you'll save a good bit.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

Rick:

  

 How long were the carb boots in service on the HKS  when you discovered they were unserviceable?

  

 john h

 mkIII

  	  Quote: 	
		         I had the same problems with    my HKS that you're experiencing and found the carb boots were rotten. Multiple    cracks and fissures on the inside, outside they looked brand new.

               



   Rick

 





	
   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

"John Bickham" wrote: << Well I think it is time for me to overhaul the

Bing 64 carbs on my 912UL. ... Has anyone had any experience with Bing

Agency in Kansas? Thanks too much, John Bickham >>



John - 



I had one of my Bing-64s overhauled by Lockwood last summer, following

ingestion of salt water from my "unfortunate" landing on the salt flats

a year & a half ago.  The cost was about $145, and they did an excellent

job - my 912ul runs perfectly again.  That price included a new float

bowl.



Here's my experience with the Bing factory in Kansas - I called 'em and

asked if THEY could rebuild my carb (before I went to Lockwood).  Once

they found out that my Bing-64 was off a Rotax aircraft engine, and not

from a snowmobile or jet ski, they flat out refused to even look at it.

That was OK by me, because I'd rather have mechanics with experience on

real aircraft engines fix my engine parts.



Dennis Kirby

Mark-3, 912ul

Cedar Crest, NM

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

John, Just a bit over a year. The story I got was that they had a bad batch in 2005 (there's a service bulletin from HKS on this) and it took awhile to work them all through the system. Despite the fact that they were bad from the factory I had to pay for them. They did let me have them for cost, though. 



Rick



On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 9:04 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		          Rick:

  

 How long were the carb boots in service on the HKS  when you discovered they were unserviceable?

  

 john h

 mkIII

  	  Quote: 	
		         I had the same problems with    my HKS that you're experiencing and found the carb boots were rotten. Multiple    cracks and fissures on the inside, outside they looked brand new.

               



   Rick

 





	
   

[/b] 	


[b]

John Bickham

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 170
Location: St. Francisville, LA

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:05 am Post subject: Re: Advice on 912 carb overhaul - Bing 64

Appreciate all the ideas and input.



Just got of the phone with John H. out in NV.  He is enjoying USAF company.



Ordered the BING manual today.  More information can't hurt. 



Probably will order the rebuild kit from CPS tomorrow.  Kit has everything but new floats.  Ronnie Smith at SMLA suggested getting the kit.  He only has the individual parts.  Engine is coming up on 9 years old.  Time to change all those little rubber parts.



Once I get all that, will decide to make attempt at overhauling the carbs myself.  Ronnie Smith is there if I need him.



Appreciate the help.  May need more help when I get started.

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