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chris(at)southernskies.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

Not wanting to get the engine debate started again- just looking for experience and advice.



Have a Kitfox 5 project with 2 engines. Installed is a 100 HP Continental 0-200 with 1400 hours,in  operating condition but far from perfect, weighs about 220 lbs. Engine needs to be removed for work on accessory case.



A second engine I have sitting here came out of a RAF 2000 Gyro- a Subaru EJ 22, carbureted, 130 HP with 200 hrs since new in excellent condition, weighs about 260 lbs with belt reduction. 



The Continental runs a little hot, vibrates a bit, uses a lot of fuel,leaks some oil, occasionally fouls the plugs and parts are very expensive . Not anything unusual I have heard.



The Subaru I have on a teststand. It runs very smooth with normal temps (liaguid cooled) and just seems like a real nice package, sips the fuel and parts are readily available at the local auto parts store. Possible drawbacks are single Ignition and the higher weight due to the reduction drive. I have heard postive things about this engine in the Gyrocopter application.



Would anybody have some input on this potential selection?



Thank you,



Chris Bowles

Kitfox 5

Taylorsville, NC

marwynne(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

I have a Champ with a Continental o-200..   I just rebuilt my engine.   The 

Continental O-200 is a very reliable engine.  They have been running these 

engines for years in a lot of  Cessna's etc..   If you can stand the loss of 

HP  I would use it .   It is a very simple engine to overhaul.    I can't 

speak to the ej-22. .   I have a Model IV with a 912 .   If I had a Model 5 

I would put the o-200 on it.



---

Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

I don't know much about the Subie, and I've never flown one.



I am, however, having good luck on another auto-conversion on my KF Model 2.



Let me say this for your edification: I am a fan of dedicated aircraft

engines. I believe they serve their purposes well in a platform that can use

one.



My experience in using my auto-conversion over the last 18 months or so has

been very positive. I have learned a lot about engines and the associated

systems. It has not been without its trials and tribulations. Engineering

the install took quite a bit of time from flying, and the install costs a

bit more than expected (as is usually the case). I will say that many of the

delays were caused from outside sources. By that I mean that I new exactly

what I wanted to do, but could not seem to get outside folks, such as engine

builders, machine shops, and welders, to give me what I needed and/or

wanted.



Now that I'm flying the engine, the benefits are great. No one can match my

fuel burn, and my costs of operation are very low and affordable. So low, in

fact, I can afford to fly at will without endangering the family income.

Driving my car is the expensive option now.



In taking the route less traveled, I sacrificed several things. Namely,

outside support, weight, complexity, and the ever-present paranoia that

something will go wrong at any minute. I decided that those risks were

acceptable to me. You must decide those for yourself.



I don't concern myself much with the core engine. The case, crank, rods,

pistons, cam, etc. are as bulletproof as any other engine anywhere. The

things I worry about are the accessories not associated to the core engine,

i.e. the ignition, fuel pump, redrive, cam belt, etc. There are many single

points of failure, and no one has solved them all. I set out to watch the

accessories much closer than most would a certified aircraft engine. Again,

the sacrifice I made of going this route.



I think the overall key is to be completely aware of what you're getting

into, and be comfortable with as objective an opinion as you can come up

with. I think many who demand certified engines are just more comfortable

with what the industry gives them. They are not, at heart, willing to take

the risks of the unknown. I can understand that and accept that. I was

willing to take the risk, and I feel I have been rewarded up to this point.

I like to tinker, so it suits my attitude. If you don't like to experiment

to find your ideal solution to a problem, my advice is to stay with the

known, and be happy there. By the same token, I believe a lot of

auto-conversion installers become so enamored of their engine choice that

they are willing to bend the truth to suit their ideals. This is very bad.

It has been proven over and over again that auto engines are not the

complete answer to the aircraft engine debate. They have advantages, yes,

but they have disadvantages as well. Don't ignore this. There is no utopia

here, where everything is the way you WANT it to be.



Just be aware of the path ahead if you go with an auto-conversion. When

doing one, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR ACCURATE INFORMATION!!!! PERIOD!

Beware of snake oil and outrageous claims. Know how every system on your

engine operates, what its limitations are, and be good at overcoming the

detail problems that occur. You are in uncharted territory here.



In summary, I like mine, but it is most definitely not for everyone to go

this route. I won't tell you to use one over the other.

Bradley





--

_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

A properly maintained Continental 0200 will be much more reliable than a Subaru conversion.   I would not even have to think 2 seconds about this choice, the Continental will be the more reliable, safer, and result in an airplane you are happy with and confident about flying.   It sounds like you do need to rebuild your Continental though, I have owned two Continental 0200's and they have run very Smooth, Never fouled plugs, and fuel usage was comparable to any other 100 HP engine.



If you decide on the Subaru, you will spend much more money and time than you ever imagined on installation.  Once it is installed, you will have many problems to solve.   The more important thing is that when flying with the Subaru, you will be constantly wondering when it is going to quit on you, the reliability and safety will not be there.  The minimum I would want in an auto conversion would be dual ignition and electronic fuel injection...  So ask yourself do you want to be a mechanic and engine developer, or do you want to fly ?   Is 30 hp  more worth giving up safety and the constant headaches ?   



Do yourself a favor, and do some research on this.  Knowing how to use a search engine effectively is the key to getting the information you need.  Search out Subaru here, and some of the other types of aircraft forums, you will be able to read for yourself the schit people have gone through to use this engine.  A recent issue of Kitplanes commented that this engine should be limited to 100 HP to be reliable for aircraft use.  The information and field reports are all there, the Continental is clearly the better engine choice.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

I have flown both the Subaru  in a Sparrow Hawk . the Subaru is an 

ourstanding  beautifully made engine but it has electronic ignition and 

while flying off hours for the commercial Gyro at nite the alternator 

went...  that night I wish it had Mags   !!  100 hp is plenty for you 

Vixen



Dave



kf 2  582  E box

Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>  

   

 A properly maintained Continental 0200 will be much more reliable than a  

 Subaru conversion.   I would not even have to think 2 seconds about this  

 choice, the Continental will be the more reliable, safer, and result in an  

 airplane you are happy with and confident about flying.   It sounds like  

 you do need to rebuild your Continental though, I have owned two of them  

 and they have run very Smooth, Never fouled plugs, and fuel usage was  

 comparable to any other 100 HP engine.  

   
	


I submit that a "properly maintained" auto conversion will be as reliable as any other "properly maintained" engine. It makes little difference who manufactures it, be it Continental, Subaru, Allison, or Briggs and Stratton. If it is "properly maintained", it will, in the overwhelmingly majority of cases, give its expected reliability. Case in point: The Rotax 582 is expected to give 300 hours of operation before requiring "proper maintenance". You all just pointed out time and time again that it is fully capable of doing this. If the Conti needs "proper maintenance" at 1600 hours TT for a bad jug, does this make it a better or worse engine? Did it give its expected lifetime before failure?  

   

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you decide on the Subaru, you will spend much more money and time than  

 you ever imagined on installation.  Once it is installed, you will have  

 many problems to solve.   The more important thing is that when flying  

 with the Subaru, you will be constantly wondering when it is going to quit  

 on you, the reliability and safety will not be there.  The minimum I would  

 want in an auto conversion would be dual ignition and electronic fuel  

 injection...  So ask yourself do you want to be a mechanic and engine  

 developer, or do you want to fly ?   Is 30 hp  more worth giving up safety  

 and the constant headaches ?  

   
	


While it is possible to overspend on the install, finding an engine/airframe combo that has already been done can be of great benefit. I had none, so that's where my problems were. I had no example of any other combo to glean info from, especially what NOT to do. I survived it on common sense, and LOTS of research. In the end, I think I ended up ok, as I have few issues to deal with.  

   

Mike, simply adding Fuel injection to your list is a step backward from your intended point. It is far more complex with many single points of failure. You need to think that point through some more. If I could add a second ignition that would provide a truly more reliable system, I would. It has been tried and can't be done on these applications. The outcome would end up being somewhat less reliable for many reasons. Single ignition is not to be feared on auto conversions. IMO, the dual ignition safety margin is largely a myth perpetuated by a truly uninformed few. That being said, I would not remove a mag from a Lyconti. And if I could get similar mag system for my install, I think I'd be interested in that, but only one.  

   

FWIW, I don’t have "constant headaches".  

   

 	  Quote: 	
		   Do yourself a favor, and do some research on this.  Knowing how to use a  

 search engine effectively is the key to getting the information you need.  

 Search out Subaru here, and some of the other types of aircraft forums,  

 you will be able to read for yourself the schit people have gone through  

 to use this engine.  A recent issue of Kitplanes commented that this  

 engine should be limited to 100 HP to be reliable for aircraft use.  The  

 information and field reports are all there, the Continental is clearly  

 the better engine choice.  

   
	


The best choice for you will clearly be the one you believe in. Maintain a rubber band properly, and it will give years of good service.  

   

Bradley   

        [quote][b]

_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:08 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

On Sat, November 22, 2008 4:14 am, Southern Skies wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Not wanting to get the engine debate started again- just looking for experience and

 advice.



 Have a Kitfox 5 project with 2 engines. Installed is a 100 HP Continental 0-200 with

 1400 hours,in  operating condition but far from perfect, weighs about 220 lbs. Engine

 needs to be removed for work on accessory case.



 A second engine I have sitting here came out of a RAF 2000 Gyro- a Subaru EJ 22,

 carbureted, 130 HP with 200 hrs since new in excellent condition, weighs about 260 lbs

 with belt reduction.



 The Continental runs a little hot, vibrates a bit, uses a lot of fuel,leaks some oil,

 occasionally fouls the plugs and parts are very expensive . Not anything unusual I

 have heard.



 The Subaru I have on a teststand. It runs very smooth with normal temps (liaguid

 cooled) and just seems like a real nice package, sips the fuel and parts are readily

 available at the local auto parts store. Possible drawbacks are single Ignition and

 the higher weight due to the reduction drive. I have heard postive things about this

 engine in the Gyrocopter application.



 Would anybody have some input on this potential selection?


	


Assuming that both engines are reasonable choices for the aircraft, considering -

weight, balance, power and resulting useful load then to use either engine you need to

know the costs in time and money to become operational.



Make a list of all the things needed to complete your project for both engines,

include estimates of cost and time in both calendar units and manhours for each task

and then determine the market value of the completed jobs for both engines. If you can

buy it already done for less than you're going to spend doing it, then don't undertake

the task at all.



The current problems with your 0-200 are correctable. Some of the symptoms are

related. Being hot, running rough and oil leaks go together. If the engine is tightly

cowled and cooling air is well directed with appropriate ducts and vanes that engine

is fine. I believe that overheating and subsequent expansion-contraction cycles is

what leads to the oil leakage.



If you use the other engine, then you've probably got a lot more work to do since it

amounts to redoing firewall foreward. In general the auto conversions find the

greatest problem with the reduction units rather than the engine itself. In my limited

experience with that EJ-22 is that the installation was so loud due to exhaust noise

that I found it unbearable. Apparently that is not necessarily the case but that

airplane builder couldn't get it muffled well enough in the space that was left to

work with.



So, in summary you have to do the budget for both options and the more refined your

estimates are, the better your comparisons will be. Always be aware of the market

value of what you're doing. If you can't do it yourself for less than you can buy it

completed, then you're doing it as a labor of love.



I am guessing that your estimate in time and dollars will point you to the Continental

as the favored selection. Even assuming a complete engine overhaul, carb, and

ignition. I'd replace those magnetos with current technology in your budget too.



-- 

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

PAF Consulting Engineers

Office 425.440.9505

Cell 425.241.1618

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

I might have missed it, Bradley, but what "auto-conversion" are you  

flying? I looked and looked, but I find no mention of what engine you  

use in your KF Model 2. I admit I only looked in the present thread.



A general question for the group.....whatever happened to the push  

for a "friendlier" group, where we put some info in our signatures so  

that people like me who are short on memory don't have to hunt and  

hunt to see what the poster is flying/building, powered by what engine.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 591hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system



On Nov 22, 2008, at 11:31 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't know much about the Subie, and I've never flown one.



 I am, however, having good luck on another auto-conversion on my KF  

 Model 2.



 Let me say this for your edification: I am a fan of dedicated aircraft

 engines. I believe they serve their purposes well in a platform  

 that can use

 one.



 My experience in using my auto-conversion over the last 18 months  

 or so has

 been very positive. I have learned a lot about engines and the  

 associated

 systems. It has not been without its trials and tribulations.  

 Engineering

 the install took quite a bit of time from flying, and the install  

 costs a

 bit more than expected (as is usually the case). I will say that  

 many of the

 delays were caused from outside sources. By that I mean that I new  

 exactly

 what I wanted to do, but could not seem to get outside folks, such  

 as engine

 builders, machine shops, and welders, to give me what I needed and/or

 wanted.



 Now that I'm flying the engine, the benefits are great. No one can  

 match my

 fuel burn, and my costs of operation are very low and affordable.  

 So low, in

 fact, I can afford to fly at will without endangering the family  

 income.

 Driving my car is the expensive option now.



 In taking the route less traveled, I sacrificed several things.  

 Namely,

 outside support, weight, complexity, and the ever-present paranoia  

 that

 something will go wrong at any minute. I decided that those risks were

 acceptable to me. You must decide those for yourself.



 I don't concern myself much with the core engine. The case, crank,  

 rods,

 pistons, cam, etc. are as bulletproof as any other engine anywhere.  

 The

 things I worry about are the accessories not associated to the core  

 engine,

 i.e. the ignition, fuel pump, redrive, cam belt, etc. There are  

 many single

 points of failure, and no one has solved them all. I set out to  

 watch the

 accessories much closer than most would a certified aircraft  

 engine. Again,

 the sacrifice I made of going this route.



 I think the overall key is to be completely aware of what you're  

 getting

 into, and be comfortable with as objective an opinion as you can  

 come up

 with. I think many who demand certified engines are just more  

 comfortable

 with what the industry gives them. They are not, at heart, willing  

 to take

 the risks of the unknown. I can understand that and accept that. I was

 willing to take the risk, and I feel I have been rewarded up to  

 this point.

 I like to tinker, so it suits my attitude. If you don't like to  

 experiment

 to find your ideal solution to a problem, my advice is to stay with  

 the

 known, and be happy there. By the same token, I believe a lot of

 auto-conversion installers become so enamored of their engine  

 choice that

 they are willing to bend the truth to suit their ideals. This is  

 very bad.

 It has been proven over and over again that auto engines are not the

 complete answer to the aircraft engine debate. They have  

 advantages, yes,

 but they have disadvantages as well. Don't ignore this. There is no  

 utopia

 here, where everything is the way you WANT it to be.



 Just be aware of the path ahead if you go with an auto-conversion.  

 When

 doing one, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR ACCURATE INFORMATION!!!! PERIOD!

 Beware of snake oil and outrageous claims. Know how every system on  

 your

 engine operates, what its limitations are, and be good at  

 overcoming the

 detail problems that occur. You are in uncharted territory here.



 In summary, I like mine, but it is most definitely not for everyone  

 to go

 this route. I won't tell you to use one over the other.

 Bradley

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

On Sat, November 22, 2008 8:55 am, JetPilot wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 A properly maintained Continental 0200 will be much more reliable than a Subaru

 conversion.


	


It's not the engine that is the weak point it is the reduction unit. There simply

haven't been as many of those made as the engines so the engineering, build, test loop

has had far fewer cycles on the reductions than on either engine.



 	  Quote: 	
		   If you decide on the Subaru, you will spend much more money and time than you ever

 imagined on installation.


	


Good point. However, I think that you can do a pretty reasonable up front estimate,

not perfect but sufficient to compare the two engine options he's considering.



 	  Quote: 	
		   The information and field reports are all there, the Continental is clearly the

 better engine choice.


	


I'm inclined to agree but I'd want to see the cost and labor estimates first. And I'd

like to see a more refined installed weight comparison too. I'd also like to know if

there were going to be big differences in frontal area drag and cooling drag. That

reduction unit and muffler on the Subaru might require a bigger, longer and heavier

cowling. The CG of the engine installation might be farther forward than that of the

O-200 and that might further reduce the useful load of the airplane. I'd nix either

choice if I thought I'd have to put ballast in the tail.

-- 

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

PAF Consulting Engineers

Office 425.440.9505

Cell 425.241.1618

Beemer

Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 87
Location: Middle Georgia

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

Suzuki G10 three cylinder. You'll know it as the Geo Metro engine.



Bradley



[quote] --

_________________
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Suzuki G10 three-banger
Middle Georgia

57_kid

Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 50

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

Chris

As I have been in your position I ended up going with the 0-200 (at the time

it was the better decision at least for me) the redrives were very expensive

at the time and maybe they still are I'm not sure what they cost at the

moment. The weight difference was a lot and if I would have went with the

subie my model 5 would have ended up almost being a single place aircraft.

That being said I would weigh out all my options and go with what you feel

most comfortable with. I have almost 300 hours on my model 5 with the 0-200

and with the exception of having to replace one of the magnetos it has been

a great combo.( used mid time motor to begin with ). but most important you

need to be satisfied with your decision as you will be the one flying it, so

get the facts and then try to make your decision.

Steve Eccles

0-200 powered

Model 5

N642SE



--

dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

Hi

Subaru engine was created for cars.Continental O200 for airplanes.

This engine (Cont O200) is very reliable, safe and like a swiss watch.



FD

Kitfox IV - O200 engine

www.dcubj3.com.br



---

aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

0-200 is a wonderful engine as is the Sub   they are different   A 

water cooled engine has some real advantages...  that's part of why 

they last so long  the 0 200 was designed when?  I replace the engine 

in the warrior  a 4 cylinder carbed pushrod for only 24000   yikes....  

   as simple as it is its proven simple old technology there is a place 

for both.  Frankly for the  RAF 2000  or sparrowhawk  there prob is 

none better....  perfect   I really really like the subaru and trust 

it.   but for the KF  I would prob opt for the 0200   ps  at 45 hours a 

jug needed replacement  due to a siezed valve  so  nothing is perfect  

its a machine! ( it was underwarranty Superior )

Lucky us we have good choices!



ps did u fly the RAF ?



Dave

Cmflyboy12(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

the 582 rotaxs is a good engine



One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and thp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001">AOL.com today![/b]

  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

It just occurred to me.....how many of the engines that we are  

talking about can change just one cylinder if it goes belly up? My  

Jabiru can, and the Conti's and Lyc's, and I'm guessing the Rotax's  

(all of them?), but how about the auto engines? VW's, Corvairs,  

yes....others? Tucker, yes. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, 591hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system



On Nov 22, 2008, at 7:00 PM, aerobatics(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 0-200 is a wonderful engine as is the Sub   they are different   A  

 water cooled engine has some real advantages...  that's part of why  

 they last so long  the 0 200 was designed when?  I replace the  

 engine in the warrior  a 4 cylinder carbed pushrod for only 24000    

 yikes....    as simple as it is its proven simple old technology  

 there is a place for both.  Frankly for the  RAF 2000  or  

 sparrowhawk  there prob is none better....  perfect   I really  

 really like the subaru and trust it.   but for the KF  I would prob  

 opt for the 0200   ps  at 45 hours a jug needed replacement  due to  

 a siezed valve  so  nothing is perfect  its a machine! ( it was  

 underwarranty Superior )

 Lucky us we have good choices!



 ps did u fly the RAF ?



 Dave

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Cmflyboy12(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

I'm sorry, I am new to this email site, let me introduce myself: I'm flying  a kitfox 2. I have 40 hours of flying time on it.

 Chuck Mowery

 in West Virginia Mountains



One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

  [quote][b]

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

VW's can



---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

AZ_Ron

Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 1

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

Welcome Chuck!

I've been on and off the site for a couple of years... Wife is in 

College to get her Masters...

Once she's out and in the workforce, then it's my turn... I'll be 

getting my PPL and either a used KF, or

building one up. (Love to build, but hate to wait that long to fly!)



Ron

Cmflyboy12(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm sorry, I am new to this email site, let me introduce myself: I'm 

 flying a kitfox 2. I have 40 hours of flying time on it.

 Chuck Mowery

 in West Virginia Mountains



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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 the things you love. *Try the new AOL.com 

 <http://pr.atwola.comtin=new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001> 

 today!*

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Cmflyboy12(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

thank you hope you get to flyin so,



One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com today!

  [quote][b]

Cmflyboy12(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22

hope you get to flyin soon,



One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social networks, and the thicid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001">AOL.com today![/b]

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