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582 Coolant routing

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patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

582 drivers C I have a grey head 582 and see pictures of blue heads with what appears as an external coolant pump that routes coolant to the head via a hose. My grey head has an elbow into the water pump at the base of the engine and I assume coolant routes to the head thru passageways inside the engine. Am I seeing this right? Is this a difference between the blue and grey head 582? Also C what is the brand name of the expansion chamber for the 582?

  

 Thank You

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL 

  [quote][b]

aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

hi Pat  Rockford?   I am in Champaign area

Yes Grey and Blue are different.  The additional hose I believe was a 

bypass to help prevent shock cooling...   are u close to flying urs?



Dave

KF 2

aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:30 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

hi Pat  Rockford?   I am in Champaign area

Yes Grey and Blue are different.  The additional hose I believe was a 

bypass to help prevent shock cooling...   are u close to flying urs?



Dave

KF 2

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

Dave C Should be ready to fly early spring.

  

 Pat Relly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: 582 Coolant routing

 Date: Sun C 23 Nov 2008 21:30:31 -0500

 From: aerobatics(at)aol.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerobatics(at)aol.com

 

 hi Pat Rockford? I am in Champaign area

 Yes Grey and Blue are different. The additional hose I believe was a 

 bypass to help prevent shock cooling... are u close to flying urs?

 

 Dave&gt=========

 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

aerobatics(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

great  lets keep in touch  if I can help.... I have about 450 hours 

behind mine plus lots of good exp here from the  group...



I fly to Morris for sun am breakfast often  and flown to osh...



Dave

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

At 06:04 PM 11/23/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Is this a difference between the blue and grey head 582?


	


Yes, it's the primary difference. When the thermostat closes the blue 

head simply by-passes the radiator and continues to circulate flow 

through the pump and cylinders. When the thermostat closes on a grey 

head all flow stops. I guess I should assume you're going to ask if 

it's necessary or desirable to change and my answer will be no. The 

great peril for the 582 is and was cold seizure, where after a 

low-throttle descent the thermostat is closed and the water in 

outside the engine is nice and cold. Suddenly you need full throttle, 

the engine heats, the thermostat opens, and all that nice cold water 

dumps into the cylinders. This causes the cylinders to contract 

faster than the pistons and the engine seizes. The blue head 

mitigates this somewhat by mixing the incoming cold water with 

circulating warm water. (You could still cold seize if you had a lot 

of really cold water in the radiator, though.) The answer for the 

grey-headers is: DON'T DO THAT. Meaning never do long descents 

throttle off with the thermostat closed, (water temp < 134F,) and 

then put yourself into a situation where you'll have to hammer the 

throttle. Either descend throttle-on, or when you get to the bottom, 

gingerly open the throttle, as you would during warm-up, to about 

3000 rpm until the thermostat opens.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Also, what is the brand name of the expansion chamber for the 582?


	


Rotax. (Unless you go after-market. See http://www.paraflite.net/muffler.htm)



Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

msm_9949(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

Also, you can (and should) install Lowell's dandy rad shutter which, when closed, will help keep water temps up during low-throttle descents.

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1



--- On Mon, 11/24/08, Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

Subject: Re: 582 Coolant routing

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 12:10 AM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>



At 06:04 PM 11/23/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Is this a difference between the blue and grey head 582?


	


Yes, it's the primary difference. When the thermostat closes the blue head

simply by-passes the radiator and continues to circulate flow through the pump

and cylinders. When the thermostat closes on a grey head all flow stops. I guess

I should assume you're going to ask if it's necessary or desirable to

change and my answer will be no. The great peril for the 582 is and was cold

seizure, where after a low-throttle descent the thermostat is closed and the

water in outside the engine is nice and cold. Suddenly you need full throttle,

the engine heats, the thermostat opens, and all that nice cold water dumps into

the cylinders. This causes the cylinders to contract faster than the pistons and

the engine seizes. The blue head mitigates this somewhat by mixing the incoming

cold water with circulating warm water. (You could still cold seize if you had a

lot of really cold water in the radiator, though.) The answer for the

grey-headers is: DON'T DO THAT. Meaning never do long descents throttle off

with the thermostat closed, (water temp < 134F,) and then put yourself into a

situation where you'll have to hammer the throttle. Either descend

throttle-on, or when you get to the bottom, gingerly open the throttle, as you

would during warm-up, to about 3000 rpm until the thermostat opens.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Also, what is the brand name of the expansion chamber for the 582?


	


Rotax. (Unless you go after-market. See http://www.paraflite.net/muffler.htm)



Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.  





	
	


         [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:02 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

Guy C I will call Paraflite and ask about their exhaust. Thanks for the info. Have any of you 582 drivers had any experience with the Paraflite tuned exhaust or any other tuned exhaust?

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Sun C 23 Nov 2008 21:10:06 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 From: bnn(at)nethere.com

 Subject: Re: 582 Coolant routing

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

 At 06:04 PM 11/23/2008 C you wrote:

 >Is this a difference between the blue and grey head 582?

 Yes C it's the primary difference. When the thermostat closes the blue 

 head simply by-passes the radiator and continues to circulate flow 

 through the pump and cylinders. When the thermostat closes on a grey 

 head all flow stops. I guess I should assume you're going to ask if 

 it's necessary or desirable to change and my answer will be no. The 

 great peril for the 582 is and was cold seizure C where after a 

 low-throttle descent the thermostat is closed and the water in 

 outside the engine is nice and cold. Suddenly you need full throttle C 

 the engine heats C the thermostat opens C and all that nice cold water 

 dumps into the cylinders. This causes the cylinders to contract 

 faster than the pistons and the engine seizes. The blue head 

 mitigates this somewhat by mixing the incoming cold water with 

 circulating warm water. (You could still cold seize if you had a lot 

 of really cold water in the radiator C though.) The answer for the 

 grey-headers is: DON'T DO THAT. Meaning never do long descents 

 throttle off with the thermostat closed C (water temp < 134F C) and 

 then put yourself into a situation where you'll have to hammer the 

 throttle. Either descend throttle-on C or when you get to the bottom C 

 gingerly open the throttle C as you would during warm-up C to about 

 3000 rpm until the thermostat opens.

 >Also C what is the brand name of the expansion chamber for the 582?

 Rotax. (Unless you go after-market. See http://www.paraflite.net/muffler.htm)

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego C CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100 Archive Search & Download C 7-Day Browse C Chat C FAQ C

&gt===================

 	  Quote: 	

  [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

Marco C I am rebuilding a Fitt shutter assembly presently to fit my twice as tall radiator as his regular kit. Probably be a good idea to think of the shutters as similar to a carb heat function on the air cooleds. When you cut power for decent close shutters same as putting on carb heat.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford CIL

   

 Date: Mon C 24 Nov 2008 09:17:00 -0800

From: msm_9949(at)yahoo.com

Subject: Re: 582 Coolant routing

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

     Also C you can (and should) install Lowell's dandy rad shutter which C when closed C will help keep water temps up during low-throttle descents.

  

 Marco Menezes N99KX

 Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1



--- On Mon C 11/24/08 C Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>

Subject: Re: 582 Coolant routing

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday C November 24 C 2008 C 12:10 AM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Guy Buchanan <bnn(at)nethere.com>



At 06:04 PM 11/23/2008 C you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Is this a difference between the blue and grey head 582?


	


Yes C it's the primary difference. When the thermostat closes the blue head

simply by-passes the radiator and continues to circulate flow through the pump

and cylinders. When the thermostat closes on a grey head all flow stops. I guess

I should assume you're going to ask if it's necessary or desirable to

change and my answer will be no. The great peril for the 582 is and was cold

seizure C where after a low-throttle descent the thermostat is closed and the

water in outside the engine is nice and cold. Suddenly you need full throttle C

the engine heats C the thermostat opens C and all that nice cold water dumps into

the cylinders. This causes the cylinders to contract faster than the pistons and

the engine seizes. The blue head mitigates this somewhat by mixing the incoming

cold water with circulating warm water. (You could still cold seize if you had a

lot of really cold water in the radiator C though.) The answer for the

grey-headers is: DON'T DO THAT. Meaning never do long descents throttle off

with the thermostat closed C (water temp < 134F C) and then put yourself into a

situation where you'll have to hammer the throttle. Either descend

throttle-on C or when you get to the bottom C gingerly open the throttle C as you

would during warm-up C to about 3000 rpm until the thermostat opens.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Also C what is the brand name of the expansion chamber for the 582?


	


Rotax. (Unless you go after-market. See http://www.paraflite.net/muffler.htm)



Guy Buchanan

San Diego C CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done C thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.  





	
	


[quote]



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[b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: 582 Coolant routing

Dave C Thanks for the advice offer. Wow C you have alot of Kitfox seat time. Which model C options and engine have you got. Wish you lived a little closer. Morris would be a good meeting point. I still have to get my liscense. I flew an ultralite for 3 years 20 years ago and was taking lessons in an Aeronca Champ a year ago until the club lost it's insurance so I haven't got any flying time in this year.  What about the e-mail address...aerobatics? do you have experience with aerobatic manuvers?

 do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: 582 Coolant routing

 Date: Sun C 23 Nov 2008 22:28:51 -0500

 From: aerobatics(at)aol.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: aerobatics(at)aol.com

 

 great lets keep in touch if I can help.... I have about 450 hours 

 behind mine plus lots of good exp here from the group...

 

 I fly to Morris for sun am breakfast often and flown to osh...

&g============
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

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