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cristalclear13
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 363 Location: Southeast Georgia
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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I am replacing the rubber engine mounts for my Rotax 503 on my Mark II. Travis is sending me the new mounts. I thought I'd ask you guys what I should be torquing those bolts to (that mount the engine on-not the mount itself). The bolts are AN6-27A.
I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller. I found in my paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs. Does that sound right? Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case you're wondering.
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_________________ Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009 |
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George Alexander
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 245 Location: SW Florida
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts |
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cristalclear13 wrote: |
====SNIP+++++
I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller. I found in my paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs. Does that sound right? Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case you're wondering. |
Cristal:
Check with your prop manufacturer. It may vary mfg to mfg.
e.g. TPI with AN5 bolts calls for 144" lbs +/-15" lbs.
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_________________ George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net |
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lcottrell
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Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 1494 Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Cristal,
Don't forget that almost all torque values are listed in inch pounds. I don't know about yours, but my torque wrench is measured in foot pounds. 110 inch pounds converts to 9.16 foot pounds. Google inch pounds to foot pounds to get a converter to use.
Larry C
[quote] ---
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_________________ do not archive |
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by0ung(at)brigham.net Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Cristal... here is a link on my web sight that gives the torque values on
bolts. Taken from the Advisory Circular ac 43.13-1B acceptable methods,
Techniques, and practices--- Aircraft inspection and repair sept 8 1998.
Dept of Transportaion, FAA flight standard service regulatory support
division.
http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg
prop manufactures may have specific torque requirements.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City Ut
Please archive.
Quote: | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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I am replacing the rubber engine mounts for my Rotax 503 on my Mark II.
Travis is sending me the new mounts. I thought I'd ask you guys what I
should be torquing those bolts to (that mount the engine on-not the mount
itself). The bolts are AN6-27A.
I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller. I found in my
paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs. Does that
sound right? Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case
you're wondering.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
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ez(at)embarqmail.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Hey, forget google.It is not that difficult. Just take inch pounds and divide by 12 to get foot pounds.
Gene
On Nov 21, 2008, at 6:20 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote] Google inch pounds to foot pounds to get a converter to use.[b]
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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Ditto on use your prop makers spec when torquing the prop bolts.In these days of tools available from darn near everywhere there's no excuse for using a ft. lb. torque wrench to do in. lb. measures, especially trying to do 9 ft. lb. to 12 ft. lb. Get a good 3/8" drive torque wrench calibrated in in. lb. Whether it's a beam type or a click stop type is up to you. If you're unsure try to borrow one and see which you like.
A word about wood props. Wood swells and shrinks with the moisture content of the wood. This causes the prop bolt torque to change, mostly on the loosen up side of things. Bad, very bad. Losing a prop or worse, part of a prop can just ruin your whole day. One way to ameliorate the effects of moisture content is the use of spring washers (otherwise known as Belleville washers) between the bolt head and the cover plate for the prop.
http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/awb/61/007.pdf
has a decent discussion of the use of Belleville washers. Try McMaster Carr:
http://www.mcmaster.com/
pages 1195 to 1197 as a source for them.
Rick
On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 7:14 PM, boyd <by0ung(at)brigham.net (by0ung(at)brigham.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "boyd" <by0ung(at)brigham.net (by0ung(at)brigham.net)>
Cristal... here is a link on my web sight that gives the torque values on
bolts. Taken from the Advisory Circular ac 43.13-1B acceptable methods,
Techniques, and practices--- Aircraft inspection and repair sept 8 1998.
Dept of Transportaion, FAA flight standard service regulatory support
division.
http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg
prop manufactures may have specific torque requirements.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City Ut
Please archive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I am replacing the rubber engine mounts for my Rotax 503 on my Mark II.
Travis is sending me the new mounts. I thought I'd ask you guys what I
should be torquing those bolts to (that mount the engine on-not the mount
itself). The bolts are AN6-27A.
I'm also going to replace the bolts and nuts on my propeller. I found in my
paperwork somewhere that they should be torqued to 110 in lbs. Does that
sound right? Those bolts are AN5-34A and I have a 66" wood prop in case
you're wondering.
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
[b]
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lcottrell
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Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 1494 Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Gene,
I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that
1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds More about calculator.
And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?
Larry C Oregon
[quote] ---
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_________________ do not archive |
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icrashrc
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location: Mishawaka, In
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts |
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This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?
BTW, Warp shows AN 5 prop mounting bolts to be torqued to 200 inch/pounds.
[quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"]Cristal... here is a link on my web sight that gives the torque values on
bolts. Taken from the Advisory Circular ac 43.13-1B acceptable methods,
Techniques, and practices--- Aircraft inspection and repair sept 8 1998.
Dept of Transportaion, FAA flight standard service regulatory support
division.
http://www.brigham.net/~byoung/torque.jpg
prop manufactures may have specific torque requirements.
Boyd Young
Kolb MkIIIC
Brigham City Ut
Please archive.
[quote
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_________________ Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
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ez(at)embarqmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Correct,
1 inch pound divided by 12, = 0.0833333333333 foot pound 12 inch pounds divided by 12 = 1 foot pound
240 inch pounds divided by 12 = 20 foot pounds
etc.
Gene
On Nov 22, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote]Gene,
I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that
1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds More about calculator.
And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?
Larry C Oregon
[quote]---
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aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Larry, Auto Zone has a Great Neck 3/8 in. drive micrometer torque wrench........$21.99Sears has a Craftsman beam type for $24.99
Rick
On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 7:49 AM, Eugene Zimmerman <ez(at)embarqmail.com (ez(at)embarqmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Correct,
1 inch pound divided by 12, = 0.0833333333333 foot pound 12 inch pounds divided by 12 = 1 foot pound
240 inch pounds divided by 12 = 20 foot pounds
etc.
Gene
On Nov 22, 2008, at 12:17 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote] Gene,
I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that
1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds More about calculator.
And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?
Larry C Oregon
[quote] ---
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Harbor fright has one for $20. I have a chinese cheepie that I use all the time.I reference checked it for accuracy and it was quite accurate. In the AF they made a
big deal out of recalibrating them but this one stays the same.
BB
On 22, Nov 2008, at 12:17 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:
[quote]Gene,
I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that
1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds More about calculator.
And Rick, I have looked at all the local shops, not on the computer, and have yet to find a torque wrench that measures inch pounds, for less than $75.00. For that much I will do the conversion. Is too cheap a reason?
Larry C Oregon
[quote]---
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by0ung(at)brigham.net Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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It is not that difficult. Just take inch pounds and divide by 12 to get foot pounds.
I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that
1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds
Quote: | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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It is the inverse of the same formula
110 x 0.083333333333 = 9.17
110 / 12 = 9.17
For me I can remember that there is 12 inches in a foot easier than I can remember 0.0833333333
Boyd Young
MKIII C
[quote][b]
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by0ung(at)brigham.net Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN
hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?
I checked the book and there is not a page 2 to the chart...
Boyd Young
Do not archive.
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Dana
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Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 1047 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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At 06:59 AM 11/22/2008, icrashrc wrote:
Quote: |
This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN
hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?
BTW, Warp shows AN 5 prop mounting bolts to be torqued to 200 inch/pounds.
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The values in that chart are NOT suitable for propeller bolts! Prop bolt
torques are based on the required force to properly clamp the prop without
crushing it, which will be different depending on the prop
construction. Use the manufacturer's recommended torque values and nothing
else.
For wood props, here's a good writeup from Sensenich:
http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/aircraft_cet/install/cf-a.pdf
-Dana
--
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys
to teenage boys.
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ez(at)embarqmail.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Correct,
1 inch pound divided by 12, = 0.0833333333333 foot pound 12 inch pounds divided by 12 = 1 foot pound
240 inch pounds divided by 12 = 20 foot pounds
etc.
Gene
On Nov 22, 2008, at 11:25 AM, boyd wrote:
Quote: | It is not that difficult. Just take inch pounds and divide by 12 to get foot pounds.
I though so too, until I Googled it. I then found that
1 inch pound force = 0.0833333333 foot pounds>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is the inverse of the same formula
110 x 0.083333333333 = 9.17
110 / 12 = 9.17
For me I can remember that there is 12 inches in a foot easier than I can remember 0.0833333333
Boyd Young
MKIII C
Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/contribution
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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icrashrc
![](images/avatars/197383186494f184b68130.jpg)
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location: Mishawaka, In
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts |
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Dana,
Sorry, i guess i wasn't clear. Cristals original question asked about both AN hardware for motor mounts AND prop mounting hardware. I aksed for a chart suitable for AN hardware as Aircraft Spruce lists it AND gave an example of what one particular prop manufacturer specs. She's already been told more than once in posts previous to mine that the prop manufacturer specs the proper torque value for thier prop. I guess i should have left the Warp example out of my post so as not to confuse you.
Scott
do not archive
[quote="Dana"]At 06:59 AM 11/22/2008, icrashrc wrote:
Quote: |
This chart only goes up to 90,000psi bolts yet Aircraft Spruce lists AN
hardware (at) 120,000psi. Anyone have a chart for 120,000psi bolts?
BTW, Warp shows AN 5 prop mounting bolts to be torqued to 200 inch/pounds.
|
The values in that chart are NOT suitable for propeller bolts! Prop bolt
torques are based on the required force to properly clamp the prop without
crushing it, which will be different depending on the prop
construction. Use the manufacturer's recommended torque values and nothing
else.
For wood props, here's a good writeup from Sensenich:
http://www.sensenichprop.com/sen_html/aircraft_cet/install/cf-a.pdf
-Dana
--
quote]
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cristalclear13
![](images/avatars/198670169474d96ef6ff96.jpg)
Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 363 Location: Southeast Georgia
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: Re: torque on various bolts |
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Hey, I found an old letter from Kolb dated April 24, 1989 in some of the paperwork I got with my plane when I bought it. It says:
"The standard propeller supplied with the kit (66" dia., 2 blade wooden prop) should be torqued to 120 in.lbs - no more and no less. Too little torque results in a propeller that does not have enough friction with the hub to drive the prop, which results in the bolts taking the hammering from the drive pulses from the engine. They eventually will be sheared. Too much tension and the wood will be crushed, which again will make it more likely that the prop bolts will come loose with the same results. In a proper installation the prop bolts should serve only to provide clamping pressure between the prop and the hub - they ideally should not be exposed to any shear (twisting) type loads. The friction between the prop and the hub should transmit 100% of the torque of the engine."
They gave this warning after some bolts broke on a Mark II.
I've come to the conclusion that my prop manufacturer has gone out of business and since I have no information about my prop I'll have to go by that newsletter I found stating to use 120 in.lbs (unless anyone knows of any updates since 1989). The sticker on the prop says "Precision Propellers, Inc." and has a toll-free number, but when I call that number a lady answers that has never heard of them. When I search for them on the internet I found an old telephone number that is out of service and no internet site is available for them.
Concerning the engine mount bolts...I am aware of the 43-13B chart because I took the inspection class, but my concern was that the engine mount bolts might be an exception similar to the prop bolts. If they are not an exception then I'll just go by the chart.
Thanks to all for your replies.
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_________________ Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009 |
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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net Guest
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: torque on various bolts |
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Cristal
I think someone else mentioned it before but... be sure to retorque your
prop bolts every time there are big changes in temperature or humidity. Wood
props shrink and swell with these changes. I lost a prop once because I
didn't know I need to retorque the bolts.
Seems like the instructions were to remove the torque allow the wood to
relax for a few minutes then retorque.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
---
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