 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:35 am Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
 |
|
On Fri, November 28, 2008 6:01 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
clip clip
| Quote: | I used that procedure for a couple of reasons one is it got me off the water
carrying floats a lot faster. I never let myself get into a situation where
I could not climb immediately at 400 ft/min. And I always cut my throttle
back to idle to descend.
|
If I'm reading you correctly, using a CAP on a 582, solves the low power on descent
problem.
If that's correct, others with 582's will rejoice!
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
|
|
I’m not sure what you mean about a descent power problem... pull the power and the cows will get larger! With two stroke engines pull the power to idle so the engine won’t run lean. When I trained in the spam can I would only cut the power to 1800rpm until final when the heat went on, full rich and then pulled the throttle. A go around was heat off and full throttle.
I haven't had a low power decent problem. I reset the pitch of the prop for climb rpm before descending so that power is ready to pull if needed.
Usually, when I descend I pull the power almost completely. I had my idle set to around 1000 rpm. This was recommended to me so when the throttle is completely closed the plane won't float on landing. I tend to plan every landing as a short field (pond). That means no power on final or flare.
Thinning out the prop before descending will allow the 582 to come up to climb power much faster once the throttle is opened and will of course allow the engine to develop full rpm if a climb is needed.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
paul(at)eucleides.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
|
|
On Fri, November 28, 2008 11:02 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not sure what you mean about a descent power problem...
|
Without a CAP, 582 users on this list have frequently stated that you have to use a
step descent technique or you risk seizing from high engine rpm but low fuel flow.
Your setup beats this problem! Long power off descents are the 2-stroke engine killer
with a fixed pitch prop. Your writeup on procedure an example of what can be learned
on this list. I was very pleased to learn this from you.
| Quote: | pull the power
and the cows will get larger! With two stroke engines pull the power to
idle so the engine won't run lean. When I trained in the spam can I would
only cut the power to 1800rpm until final when the heat went on, full rich
and then pulled the throttle. A go around was heat off and full throttle.
I haven't had a low power decent problem. I reset the pitch of the prop
for climb rpm before descending so that power is ready to pull if needed.
Usually, when I descend I pull the power almost completely. I had my idle
set to around 1000 rpm. This was recommended to me so when the throttle is
completely closed the plane won't float on landing. I tend to plan every
landing as a short field (pond). That means no power on final or flare.
|
That is best practice technique in my view and matches my flight training which came
from a high time military instructor.
There is one exception that the AK guys will tell you, and that is very cold weather
operations, they don't like to run power to idle especially without cowl flaps since
adding power for a go around is asking for cracked heads.
| Quote: | Thinning out the prop before descending will allow the 582 to come up to
climb power much faster once the throttle is opened and will of course allow
the engine to develop full rpm if a climb is needed.
|
The fixed pitch people can't do that, of course. Your setup and procedure sounds
perfect to me.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jtayloraaf(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
|
|
john bowman here in prairieville, la, bldg avid+ (airdale)- i know that has been discussed before, but help me get it right. flying under the sport pilot rule with drivers license vice faa medical-- does that impact use of a ifa/cap?? tnx & happy tnxgvng....great skiing wx here in south la, water skiing that is! 82 degrees. how u like them apples, leni ?
From: Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:34:14 AM
Subject: RE: 582 on floats with CAP
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul(at)eucleides.com (paul(at)eucleides.com)>
On Fri, November 28, 2008 6:01 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
clip clip
[quote] I used that procedure for a couple of reasons one is it got me off the water
carrying floats a lot faster. I never let myself get into a situation [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:39 pm Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
|
|
Ok... now I see what you are getting at.
The trick, if there is one, is to descend at idle not reduced throttle.
When at idle the Rotax engine goes into a very rich mixture. On the way
down I normally do engine warms every thirty seconds or so. The engine warm
I use on the 582 is about ten seconds of full throttle with the nose up to
keep the prop under load. Also when descending I keep an eye on my EGTs...
then again I'm always checking my EGTs.
You will get into a problem if you pull the throttle back to say 3000 or
4000 rpm to descend. Basically it's an all or nothing situation. At idle
my engine only churns about 2500 in the descent with the throttle pulled
back to the idle stop. EGTs will drop maybe 50Deg from cruise. Engine warm
ups are always done if I notice a large drop in water temp. I never snap
the throttle open always let the engine pick up evenly with a direct
application of throttle.
So far the only hiccup I've had was last year when a perforated diaphragm in
the fuel pump made things quite interesting. On that occasion I had to land
with just about full power on to keep the engine from stalling... Gas was
leaking doun th impulse line like a fire hose... lots of fun! Gas
everywhere including some very hot exhausts.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
|
|
I’m a little north of the lower 48 but the scuttlebutt is, the minute you install an IFA if it gets into the log book the plane can never be registered under sport aviation rules.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of john taylor
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 4:26 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: 582 on floats with CAP
john bowman here in prairieville, la, bldg avid+ (airdale)- i know that has been discussed before, but help me get it right. flying under the sport pilot rule with drivers license vice faa medical-- does that impact use of a ifa/cap?? tnx & happy tnxgvng....great skiing wx here in south la, water skiing that is! 82 degrees. how u like them apples, leni ?
From: Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:34:14 AM
Subject: RE: 582 on floats with CAP
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul(at)eucleides.com (paul(at)eucleides.com)>
On Fri, November 28, 2008 6:01 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca (noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca)>
clip clip
> I used that procedure for a couple of reasons one is it got me off the water
> carrying floats a lot faster. I never let myself get into a situation 0123456789012345678901234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: 582 on floats with CAP |
|
|
How it impacts it is...you can't ! Under Sport Pilot rules, you are
not allowed to have an in-flight adjustable prop. They want to keep
the operation of any plane flyable by a SP simple, i.e. non-complex
(I think that is the term). It's been a while since I looked at the
exact wording for Sport Pilot, but that comes pretty close. The prop
on any plane being flown by a Sport Pilot can only be fixed-pitch, or
have one that is ground-adjustable only.
Lynn Matteson (2 years as a Sport Pilot)
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 28, 2008, at 2:55 PM, john taylor wrote:
| Quote: | john bowman here in prairieville, la, bldg avid+ (airdale)- i know
that has been discussed before, but help me get it right. flying
under the sport pilot rule with drivers license vice faa medical--
does that impact use of a ifa/cap?? tnx & happy tnxgvng....great
skiing wx here in south la, water skiing that is! 82 degrees. how u
like them apples, leni ?
From: Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2008 11:34:14 AM
Subject: RE: 582 on floats with CAP
<paul(at)eucleides.com>
On Fri, November 28, 2008 6:01 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
<noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
clip clip
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
