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wb2ssj(at)frontiernet.net
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 Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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I am trying to mark my air speed indicator with the proper color rings. What is the max speed to deploy flaps. Thanks Tex
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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Tex,
I have been using no more than 100 mph to start them down, and 87 mph or less for them to be full down.
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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I used no more than 90 knots for the 1st 10 degrees of flaps and 75 for anything more. For me it was easy to remember 85 knots for the first notch and 75 knots for anything more.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Date: Sat C 29 Nov 2008 16:02:54 -0500
Subject: Re: air speeds
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Tex C
I have been using no more than 100 mph to start them down C and 87 mph or less for them to be full down.
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
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ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ronics.com
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Proud to be a PC? Show the world. Download theMRT/go/119642558/direct/01/' target='_new'>Download now. [quote][b]
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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I was thinking today when I was flying N730AL, (which is back in the air now), about airspeeds, what to fly downwind, base, final, when to deploy flaps, etc.
Flying a Cessna, or light sport, the airspeeds are quite different!
Here is what I have for discussion, all in mph please.
Entry into the pattern: 90-105 mph depending where you enter
Downwind at the touchdown point, slow to 90 and 10 degrees of flaps
Base leg, slow to 80 and 20 degrees of flaps
Final leg, slow to 70 and 30 deg of flaps
Cross numbers at 60-65
Bleed off speed and flare into the touch down at 50-55
This is my interpretation. I would love to hear some opinions.
By the way, the airplane is flying really well and the MGL is incredible!
Jim!
N730AL
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:03 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: air speeds
Tex,
I have been using no more than 100 mph to start them down, and 87 mph or less for them to be full down.
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
01234567890123
[quote][b]
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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Jim C
That's exactlly how Nick taught me to do it! Brian W.
From: pequeajim(at)gmail.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: air speeds
Date: Sat C 29 Nov 2008 18:53:55 -0500
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I was thinking today when I was flying N730AL C (which is back in the air now) C about airspeeds C what to fly downwind C base C final C when to deploy flaps C etc.
Flying a Cessna C or light sport C the airspeeds are quite different!
Here is what I have for discussion C all in mph please.
Entry into the pattern: 90-105 mph depending where you enter
Downwind at the touchdown point C slow to 90 and 10 degrees of flaps
Base leg C slow to 80 and 20 degrees of flaps
Final leg C slow to 70 and 30 deg of flaps
Cross numbers at 60-65
Bleed off speed and flare into the touch down at 50-55
This is my interpretation. I would love to hear some opinions.
By the way C the airplane is flying really well and the MGL is incredible!
Jim!
N730AL
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday C November 29 C 2008 4:03 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Lightning-List: air speeds
Tex C
I have been using no more than 100 mph to start them down C and 87 mph or less for them to be full down.
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
01234567890123
4Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. Sign up today. [quote][b]
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pequeajim
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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Hmmm, same instructor, same results I guess…
That guy must be alright!
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 6:59 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: air speeds
Jim,
That's exactlly how Nick taught me to do it! Brian W.
From: pequeajim(at)gmail.com
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: air speeds
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:53:55 -0500
I was thinking today when I was flying N730AL, (which is back in the air now), about airspeeds, what to fly downwind, base, final, when to deploy flaps, etc.
Flying a Cessna, or light sport, the airspeeds are quite different!
Here is what I have for discussion, all in mph please.
Entry into the pattern: 90-105 mph depending where you enter
Downwind at the touchdown point, slow to 90 and 10 degrees of flaps
Base leg, slow to 80 and 20 degrees of flaps
Final leg, slow to 70 and 30 deg of flaps
Cross numbers at 60-65
Bleed off speed and flare into the touch down at 50-55
This is my interpretation. I would love to hear some opinions.
By the way, the airplane is flying really well and the MGL is incredible!
Jim!
N730AL
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:03 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: air speeds
Tex,
I have been using no more than 100 mph to start them down, and 87 mph or less for them to be full down.
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ww.matronics.com/contributionst">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-Listronics.com |
Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail. Sign up today. 0123456789 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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Because of my USAF flight training, I put the flaps full down (30 degrees for a normal Lightning landing) on downwind. This prevents ever being tempted to lower the flaps while in a turn. If you have never had split flaps - it can be a hand full, especially if it happens while in a bank/turn. I have had that once in F-4s and once in the 601XL that the local EAA chapter built. Thankfully, I was still on downwind at the time both occurred.
Another reason I like putting the flaps full down while on downwind is that it allows me to fly a tighter pattern. Don't get me started on the huge patterns that most pilots fly. I am convinced that 90% of the pilots flying today would never have a chance of making the runway if they lost an engine while in the pattern because of the large airline or bomber type patterns that are flown. And the problem keeps getting worse because most of today's instructors teach them because that is what they were taught. Yea, I know, engines are pretty reliable today. But were we not taught that most engine failures happen when you change power settings - either powering up or down. Pulling the power back to land is where I had an engine failure in the Cub.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoum40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: air speeds |
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Buz C
Very interesting and well thought out explanation. I was not aware that the 601 had split flaps. Didn't some F-4 models have leading edge flaps and some have slats? I had an old instructor that flew A-4's that had the slats deploy when the airflow on the wing allowed. He said that it took some getting used to looking out and seeing one of those deploy on one side and not the other.
I think that I'll teach my students this way as well. I always wondered why at Embry-Riddle that we flew wide and slow bomber patterns. We also didn't start descent until on the base leg. These all were supposed to be for traffic avoidance C but I always disagreed with it. (as did some instructors) Never mind that we were almost always on a flight plan C in controlled airspace C and had a traffic avoidance system on-board. Don't get me wrong C I just think the emphasis should have been on scanning technique rather than what it was on. I know the risk of dying from a lost engine and forced landing are much more likely than that of having a mid-air. If I hit something slower C but still at 70mph I don't think that you've increased your chances over colliding at 90mph. The part that really never made sense to me though was the waiting to descend until on base. The typical thing to do would be to extend out your downwind so that you could keep a normal glide angle. This put you further from the airport though if you had an engine failure. If you did try to keep in close to the airport then you had to have a steeper descent angle and that kind of makes for a more likely mid-air collision I would have to think. I knew that I could make a field or highway on cross-countries but landing in the middle of the city I wanted to know that I could make the airfield as there wasn't anywhere else to go. Okay I'll get off my soap box now. Brian W.
From: N1BZRich(at)aol.comDate: Sat C 29 Nov 2008 23:53:13 -0500Subject: Re: Lightning-List: air speedsTo: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Because of my USAF flight training C I put the flaps full down (30 degrees for a normal Lightning landing) on downwind. This prevents ever being tempted to lower the flaps while in a turn. If you have never had split flaps - it can be a hand full C especially if it happens while in a bank/turn. I have had that once in F-4s and once in the 601XL that the local EAA chapter built. Thankfully C I was still on downwind at the time both occurred
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N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:47 pm Post subject: air speeds |
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In a message dated 11/30/2008 8:54:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dashvii(at)hotmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | I was not aware that the 601 had split flaps. Didn't some F-4 models have leading edge flaps and some have slats? |
Well, the 601 is not supposed to have split flaps, but the way the left and right flaps are interconnected via telescoping 4130 tubes that are bolted together inside the fuselage, it became possible after some wear in the bolt holes or breakage of the AN3 bolt. I corrected the situation by welding the tubes together.
The F-4E after a certain serial number did have leading edge slats that would program out during maneuvering flight based on a certain AOA. Good for a turning dog fight, but the extra drag of the larger hinges etc, really took away from top speed. They were hard to get much over Mach 2, where as a clean F-4C or D would readily go above Mach 2. I once had an old C model to Mach 2.32. You know the old saying - Speed is life. We easily out ran F-15s, 16s and 18s in Red Flag exercises. But the really fast old fighter is the 105. We used to race them out of North Vietnam. Initially we could easily out accelerate them at full military power (and sometimes AB) when leaving the target area, but about 20 or 30 miles later they would catch us and slowly walk away. Of course the Thud was originally designed to be a low altitude high speed penetrator and it did that job very well.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Life should be easier. So shoul40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com.
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Brian W.