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breaker specs

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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: breaker specs

Bob, et al

  

 I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers  (Klixon in this case).  I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales  info from Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc.  Can you suggest a  source?

  

 I'm beginning to think Klixon is not a manufacture's  name but just a product name.  Still, I should be able to find  performance specs online though, no?

  

 Relevance:  Due to space and design goals, I am  incorporating fuse blocks and some breakers (Klixon) into my panel  (RV7A).  However, I have just recently discovered another type of breaker  that I'm sure you're aware of, namely the switch/breaker,  see

  

  http://www.avionicsmall.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=8161

  

 This nifty puppy will save space by incorporating a  switch and circuit breaker into one unit at comparable cost to a switch and  klixon breaker.  However, when reading the performance specs, (click  on the data sheet tab here   http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=655-W31-X2M1G-5 )   it looks to be very slow acting at the current flows that we are dealing  with.  I would think that we want an overload to be shut own within seconds  not minutes.  Even at a response time of 10 seconds, the amount of overload  would have to be 150-250% of rated value ( I suppose dependant on ambient  temperature).  I don't think this is acceptable for an aircraft, do  you?

  

 This is why I wonder what the Klixon's response times  are.  Maybe they are no better.  I'm pretty sure that an ATO type fuse  will be lightning fast at 150% overload, no?   I look forward to you  comments.

  

 Thanks

  

 Bevan

  

  

 	  Quote:

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rjquillin

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: KSEE

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: breaker specs

Try here:



  http://www.sensata.com/



 Ron Q.



 At 22:35 12/2/2008, you wrote:

 [quote] Bob, et al

  

 I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this case).  I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc.  Can you suggest a source?[b]

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jay(at)horriblehyde.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: breaker specs

Just as a general note on electrical protection; the trip times that you

mention for such an overload (in the region of 150-250%) are perfectly

acceptable; an overload condition should not produce a quick response, but

allow the system time to shed the overload if it is a transient condition

(starting for example).  If there is a fault that generates a high current

then the protection element (cct breaker) should trip much faster.



In large power electrical systems this is called an IDMT characteristic

(Inverse Definite Mean Time); in a small CB this characteristic is attained

by use of a bi-metallic strip that heats up slowly during an overload; once

past a certain limit the circuit is opened using clever spring thingie

arrangements..    When a large current is passed the strip heats a lot

faster causing the faster trip.



The circuit that you are feeding should be able to handle the overload

condition for that period of time without damage, it’ll just heat up.



Incidentally, that is why there is an earth (or ground) in electrical

systems- it is there to create a defined return path to the power source

that will create a good solid and DETECTABLE fault.  Once detected it can be

cleared.  That’s another reason to make sure that metal skins are well

bonded (electrically- that is, they are electrically continuous) in an

aircraft, so that if a positive wire rubs through somewhere it must find a

good return path to the negative terminal of the battery as soon as

possible.  That way the fault can be detected and isolated by your cleverly

designed reticulation system and fuses/ breakers 



Fuses have similar characteristics; they also rely on heat generated by

conducted current..



Jay



 

________________________________________

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm

Sent: 03 December 2008 08:36 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: breaker specs



Bob, et al

 

I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this case). 

I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from Mouser, Digi-key,

Electronic etc.  Can you suggest a source?

 

I'm beginning to think Klixon is not a manufacture's name but just a product

name.  Still, I should be able to find performance specs online though, no?

 

Relevance:  Due to space and design goals, I am incorporating fuse

blocks and some breakers (Klixon) into my panel (RV7A).  However, I have

just recently discovered another type of breaker that I'm sure you're aware

of, namely the switch/breaker, see

 

 http://www.avionicsmall.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&prod

ucts_id=8161

 

This nifty puppy will save space by incorporating a switch and circuit

breaker into one unit at comparable cost to a switch and klixon breaker. 

However, when reading the performance specs, (click on the data sheet tab

here   http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=655-W31-X2M1G-5 ) 

it looks to be very slow acting at the current flows that we are dealing

with.  I would think that we want an overload to be shut own within seconds

not minutes.  Even at a response time of 10 seconds, the amount of overload

would have to be 150-250% of rated value ( I suppose dependant on ambient

temperature).  I don't think this is acceptable for an aircraft, do you?

 

This is why I wonder what the Klixon's response times are.  Maybe they are

no better.  I'm pretty sure that an ATO type fuse will be lightning fast at

150% overload, no?   I look forward to you comments.

 

Thanks

 

Bevan

 

 

 

-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

dangerous content by Pinpoint, and is

believed to be clean.

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JOE RONCO

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
Location: CENTENNIAL COLORADO

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: breaker specs

BEVAN: I don’t know if this is what you are looking for but try this link.   

   

http://www.sensata.com/products/controls/acb.htm  

   

They also have a catalog that you can download.   

   

Hope this helps.  

   

Joe R  

       

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Tomm

 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 11:36 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: breaker specs  

  

  

   

Bob, et al  

   

I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this case).  I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc.  Can you suggest a source?  

   

I'm beginning to think Klixon is not a manufacture's name but just a product name.  Still, I should be able to find performance specs online though, no?  

   

Relevance:  Due to space and design goals, I am incorporating fuse blocks and some breakers (Klixon) into my panel (RV7A).  However, I have just recently discovered another type of breaker that I'm sure you're aware of, namely the switch/breaker, see  

   

 http://www.avionicsmall.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=8161  

   

This nifty puppy will save space by incorporating a switch and circuit breaker into one unit at comparable cost to a switch and klixon breaker.  However, when reading the performance specs, (click on the data sheet tab here   http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=655-W31-X2M1G-5 )  it looks to be very slow acting at the current flows that we are dealing with.  I would think that we want an overload to be shut own within seconds not minutes.  Even at a response time of 10 seconds, the amount of overload would have to be 150-250% of rated value ( I suppose dependant on ambient temperature).  I don't think this is acceptable for an aircraft, do you?  

   

This is why I wonder what the Klixon's response times are.  Maybe they are no better.  I'm pretty sure that an ATO type fuse will be lightning fast at 150% overload, no?   I look forward to you comments.  

   

Thanks  

   

Bevan  

   

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       [quote][b]

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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: breaker specs

Thanks for the replies.  Exactly what I'm looking  for.

  

 Bevan



   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe  Ronco

Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 9:53 AM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List:  breaker specs

 

  

BEVAN: I don’t know if  this is what you are looking for but try this link.  

  

http://www.sensata.com/products/controls/acb.htm 

  

They also have a catalog  that you can download.  

  

Hope this  helps. 

  

Joe  R 

 

    [quote][b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: breaker specs

At 12:35 AM 12/3/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Bob, et al

  

 I'm trying to educate myself about circuit breakers (Klixon in this case).  I can't find any tech info online, nor any sales info from Mouser, Digi-key, Electronic etc.  Can you suggest a source?

  

 I'm beginning to think Klixon is not a manufacture's name but just a product name.  Still, I should be able to find performance specs online though, no? 	


    "Klixon" has been associated with Texas Instruments for

    a very long time. I don't know if it originated with TI

    or they acquired it. Klixon forte was a slightly dished

    disk of homogenous material useful for push-button springs

    and the bi-metal versions suited for use as current sensors

    in breakers.



    You can drink from the firehose of data on Sensata-Klixon    

    at:



  http://www.sensata.com/products/controls/circuitbreakers.htm



  	  Quote: 	
		   

 Relevance:  Due to space and design goals, I am incorporating fuse blocks and some breakers (Klixon) into my panel (RV7A).  However, I have just recently discovered another type of breaker that I'm sure you're aware of, namely the switch/breaker, see

  

    http://www.avionicsmall.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=189&products_id=8161 

  

 This nifty puppy will save space by incorporating a switch and circuit breaker into one unit at comparable cost to a switch and klixon breaker.  However, when reading the performance specs, (click on the data sheet tab here    http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=655-W31-X2M1G-5 )  it looks to be very slow acting at the current flows that we are dealing with.  I would think that we want an overload to be shut own within seconds not minutes.  Even at a response time of 10 seconds, the amount of overload would have to be 150-250% of rated value ( I suppose dependant on ambient temperature).  I don't think this is acceptable for an aircraft, do you?

  

 This is why I wonder what the Klixon's response times are.  Maybe they are no better.  I'm pretty sure that an ATO type fuse will be lightning fast at 150% overload, no?   I look forward to you comments. 	


    Don't loose any sleep over it. Studying the response times

    of the hundreds of products will not yield satisfying 

    conclusions. ALL breakers and breaker-switches are suited

    to the task of keeping the smoke inside the wires they

    feed. The switch-breaker you've cited has a very close

    cousin in service on the Beech Bonanza and Baron lines

    to the tune of 80,000+ units over the past 25 years or

    more.



 

        Bob . . .



        ----------------------------------------)

        ( . . .  a long habit of not thinking   )

        ( a thing wrong, gives it a superficial )

        ( appearance of being right . . .       )

        (                                       )

        (                  -Thomas Paine 1776-  )

        ----------------------------------------



     [quote][b]

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