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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

Do you value this list? Did you recently make a contribution to Matt to

support it?



THEN WHY DAMAGE IT?



Every post you make on controversial, non-aviation related topics hurts this

list. You drive people away. You stir up emotions that get in the way of

factual aviation-related discussions. You waste builders time.



Your posts, no matter how clever, cutting or brilliant - WILL NOT CHANGE

MINDS on topics that have been argued over forever.



There are plenty of places to have political discussions. There is only one

Zenith list. If you damage or destroy it then you will have no other place

to go for help in building your Zenith aircraft.



So before you reach for your keyboard to fire off your next response please

reflect on the above.



-- Craig



(oh, and do not archive)

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

Well put Craig!  I agree wholeheartedly.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive



---

dkbrooks(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

I second that motion.  



I too have very, very, strong opinions about many of these non-aviation issues and I would be happy to debate them off list - but this is one of the few blissfully politics-free public forums I have ever read.  Please, for the love of flying, can we please not let this list turn in to yet another back-and-forth political blog?  Please?

 

Please?



Dave



(do not archive)



On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Craig Payne <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com (craig(at)craigandjean.com)>

  

 Do you value this list? Did you recently make a contribution to Matt to

 support it?

 

 THEN WHY DAMAGE IT?

 

 Every post you make on controversial, non-aviation related topics hurts this

 list. You drive people away. You stir up emotions that get in the way of

 factual aviation-related discussions. You waste builders time.

 

 Your posts, no matter how clever, cutting or brilliant - WILL NOT CHANGE

 MINDS on topics that have been argued over forever.

 

 There are plenty of places to have political discussions. There is only one

 Zenith list. If you damage or destroy it then you will have no other place

 to go for help in building your Zenith aircraft.

 

 So before you reach for your keyboard to fire off your next response please

 reflect on the above.

 

 -- Craig

 

 (oh, and do not archive)

 

 

 [b]

agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

Craig is right guys. Nothing good can come from these off topic strings. There are all kinds of places to carry these discussions and we need to keep this list focused on building airplanes and helping each other. Please stop this.



Do not archive.



---

lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

Very well said, Craig.  

  

 A new 650 builder contacted me this weekend and was not aware of the Matronics list.  I prompted him to sign up because of the excellent builder support he would receive.  I can only hope he waits a few days to subscribe so, hopefully, we can use the time to get back to the purpose for which this list was established.

   

 Larry Winger

 650/Covair

 Do Not Archive

  [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

tigerrick(at)mindspring.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

Yep, Larry, Craig, et al.



I agree that politics really don't belong here.



I apologize to rising to the bait on this forum.



Now, back to building my rolling wing cradles for the 601...



Rick



--

Tommy Walker

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207

Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Do you value this list?

Hi,



I used to read the Zenith list regularly but was disappointed and left because of one  fellow.  I now reside on the 701/801 and Rotax Engine lists.  



The reason I posted here is because:



1.  I agree with Craig's comment.  



2.  I got the email today from Matt Draille with the list of contributers and browsed down the list, first to make sure my name was on the list, since I do make a contribution each year.  After seeing that my name was included, I scrolled back up the list to see if a certain person who was the primary reason for me leaving made a contribution.  Guess what?  His name was not listed.  



I know that mistakes can happen and perhaps the person's name got left off the list inadvertently.  



Hopefully that is the case.



Tommy Walker in Alabama

Do Not Archive

_________________
Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL

jshep00(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

I was going to make a contribution to the list in late November but got busy 

as my Mother passed away on Nov 30th..  After reading all the garbage being 

posted the last few days, I think maybe This list is a waste of time for 

Airplane builders and people who actually fly what they build.  Jerry 

Shepard, flying CH701 N2562P

---

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: Do you value this list?

you are missing the point.  the list is no longer just an info exchange, but of people who have the same desires and goals of building an aircraft and that have built a relationship with each other, through that common thread.  We each know that we can ask questioins about building, issues that are not about building, support each other, especially in tough times, and know that in the end we have the support of other builders.  We have celabrated people's achievements, prayed for peoples losses,  stated opinions not so agreeable to each other.  In the end we are around this campfire, telling stories, praying for the future, dreaming about things to come and plans that hopefully will be fullfilled.

I may not agree with some opinions, but there is no  For me...    its all good.



Happy Holidays



Juan



--

thesumak(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Do you value this list?

I disagree with your assessment of what this list is or should be about Juan.  I certainly could be wrong, but my guess is that most of us do not care in the slightest what you, Rick, William, Andy and the rest think about politics, guns and what not. I know for sure that I donâ€™t. This latest flurry makes me appreciate all the more the majority of members here who contribute without drama.  

     

    Do not archive

    Bill

     

     

    Juan said:  

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  you are missing the point.  the list is no longer just an info exchange, but of 

people who have the same desires and goals of building an aircraft and that have 

built a relationship with each other, through that common thread.  We each know 

that we can ask questioins about building, issues that are not about building, 

support each other, especially in tough times, and know that in the end we have 

the support of other builders. 	
  

   Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations – including songs for the holidays – FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now! 

  [quote][b]

Geoff Heap

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 266
Location: Lindenwold, New Jersey

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Do you value this list?

I just contacted Matt to find out how I can still make a donation (late) regardless of the free gift. 60 bucks a year is my choice. The help I've gotten from the list in the last few years is priceless....Geoff

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: Do you value this list?

The subject line clearly stated that it was a non building question.  

If you have no interest in such posts, you can simply delete them  

without reading them. Let's face facts, this is an unmoderated list,  

there are going to be posts that don't interest you and there's not  

much you can do about it, that's just the way it is. It doesn't do  

much good to post your own off topic posts in protest of other posts,  

that often just fans the flames and keeps the topic going. You just  

have to take it in stride, ignore the posts you have no interest in an  

go on.



It helps if you use the view by thread option in your mail reader,  

then you can delete multiple posts at once. If it gets too bad, you  

can usually create a rule that deletes them automatically. If you have  

a slow connection, most mail readers have the option to download only  

the headers, then you can delete the unwanted posts before you waste  

time downloading the entire message and can download only those you  

are interested in. You can also block posts from certain individuals  

if they have a habit of posting a lot of junk you don't want to read.  

It may be inconvenient, but that's the reality of the internet.



It also helps if people would change the subject line when they go off  

on a tangent from a previous subject, trim the quotations to the bare  

minimum and use "do not archive", but oftentimes that doesn't happen.



The worst part of this whole thing is that the original post asked a  

simple question that had no political content at all. This may not  

have been the best place to ask the question; it wasn't about building  

but at least it was related to the subject of flying and some people  

on this list have some knowledge and can give a useful answer to the  

question. But some people have such strong feelings about the original  

subject that the mere mention of it triggers a political response and  

then the flames begin. Such is life.



On Dec 10, 2008, at 8:34 AM, thesumak(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I disagree with your assessment of what this list is or should be  

 about Juan.


	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

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