 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: Kolb Ultrastar: How to take-off - Cross Wind Landings |
 |
|
Richard,
If I have not made my self clear on this List, then I apologize. I feel
like I always recommend practice and training. I make no apology for
recommending that fellow FireFlyers and/or Kolbers practice cross wind
landings. I have gotten caught on return trips where the wind was too high
to make a cross wind landing. It is easily detected by setting up a side
slip on final approach. If you drift off you have to take a different
approach. I assume the FireFly has the advantage in this case because one
can turn into the wind and land on a cross taxiway or a ramp with very low
ground touch down speed. The MKIIIC can be flown the same way but the roll
out would be longer due to the higher stall/approach speed.
I do worry about inexperienced pilots being told that all Kolb models fly
the same, they don't. I worry about the inexperienced being told that aft
cg is unimportant. Is this chest pounding? Well, I guess it is.
This List is a good forum for telling it like it is. Several people on this
list have had accidents, and they have come forward and told it like was, so
that we all could learn from their experience. In the last few years some
"good and experienced" Kolb pilots have been killed. The last was John W.
Several people on this list were present, but we have not seen a good
description of what they saw, if they saw anything. Was he flying through a
down draft on the back of a mountain? Did he have medical emergency? Since
he was camping was he flying with an aft cg? Most likely we will never
know. Most likely what will injure or kill you is what you didn't know until it is too
late. So practice and practice.
So lets keep it safe.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
At 09:48 AM 12/17/08 -0500, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Jack
I think you have misunderstood John's message. First let me assure you John
and his plane are more than up to the task of handling the upper limits of
any Kolb cross wind landing.
Two things. First, we all need to be very careful not to overstate the
capabilities of our airplanes so that less experienced pilots will not try
to handle weather they think is safe because someone has said it was safe.
Second, less experienced pilots tend to over estimate the actual cross wind
component that they have landed in.
I think we should follow John's lead in reporting accurate limits of our
aircraft. Pounding our chests and stating "I can land in a higher cross
wind" isn't a good thing to do here.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Kolb Ultrastar: How to take-off - Cross Wind Landings |
|
|
If I had a steady 30 MPH crosswind to land in there would be little
trouble. The key word is STEADY.
The problem here is 30 MPH translates into gusts over 40 and sudden
calm thus setting up the
clenched grip, sweat-inducing, heart-palpitating hope for good luck.
I was the grateful recipient of a piece of that luck one time this
summer in my stubborn insistence
to land back at my home field. If I had it on video you wouldn't
believe it.
Drive a man to drink. (or at least one reason)
BB
On 17, Dec 2008, at 2:44 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
| Quote: |
<jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
Richard,
If I have not made my self clear on this List, then I apologize. I
feel
like I always recommend practice and training. I make no apology for
recommending that fellow FireFlyers and/or Kolbers practice cross wind
landings. I have gotten caught on return trips where the wind was
too high
to make a cross wind landing. It is easily detected by setting up
a side
slip on final approach. If you drift off you have to take a different
approach. I assume the FireFly has the advantage in this case
because one
can turn into the wind and land on a cross taxiway or a ramp with
very low
ground touch down speed. The MKIIIC can be flown the same way but
the roll
out would be longer due to the higher stall/approach speed.
I do worry about inexperienced pilots being told that all Kolb
models fly
the same, they don't. I worry about the inexperienced being told
that aft
cg is unimportant. Is this chest pounding? Well, I guess it is.
This List is a good forum for telling it like it is. Several
people on this
list have had accidents, and they have come forward and told it
like was, so
that we all could learn from their experience. In the last few
years some
"good and experienced" Kolb pilots have been killed. The last was
John W.
Several people on this list were present, but we have not seen a good
description of what they saw, if they saw anything. Was he flying
through a
down draft on the back of a mountain? Did he have medical
emergency? Since
he was camping was he flying with an aft cg? Most likely we will
never
know. Most likely what will injure or kill you is what you didn't
know until it is too
late. So practice and practice.
So lets keep it safe.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
At 09:48 AM 12/17/08 -0500, you wrote:
>
> <NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net>
>
> Jack
>
> I think you have misunderstood John's message. First let me assure
> you John
> and his plane are more than up to the task of handling the upper
> limits of
> any Kolb cross wind landing.
>
> Two things. First, we all need to be very careful not to overstate
> the
> capabilities of our airplanes so that less experienced pilots will
> not try
> to handle weather they think is safe because someone has said it
> was safe.
> Second, less experienced pilots tend to over estimate the actual
> cross wind
> component that they have landed in.
>
> I think we should follow John's lead in reporting accurate limits
> of our
> aircraft. Pounding our chests and stating "I can land in a higher
> cross
> wind" isn't a good thing to do here.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Kolb Ultrastar: How to take-off - Cross Wind Landings |
|
|
Jack:
| Quote: | I do worry about inexperienced pilots being told that all Kolb models fly
the same, they don't.
|
Have you flown all the Kolb models?
Except for a little difference in size, weight, and power, they all fly the
same. If I remember correctly, you have only flown your FF. However, you
could crawl in a MKIII, FS, US, or Kolbra, and feel right at home after a
few take offs and landings.
| Quote: | I worry about the inexperienced being told that aft
cg is unimportant. Is this chest pounding? Well, I guess it is.
|
Who said that?
On several occassions I have stated paper weight and balance and reality are
not always the same when it comes to Kolb aircraft. If it was, my airplane
would not fly. I didn't put the 11+ lb Maule Tundra Tailwheel on my mkIII
to prove this point, I needed a better tail wheel, but it sort of
demonstrates that paper and actuality do not agree.
>In the last few years some
| Quote: | "good and experienced" Kolb pilots have been killed. The last was John W.
Several people on this list were present, but we have not seen a good
description of what they saw, if they saw anything.
|
John Williamson was my best flying buddy. We spent some great time together
flying cross country all over the lower 48. Our flight last May was the
best yet.
Here is the final NTSB report on John's accident. It was compiled from what
Larry Cottrell, Roger Hankins, and I saw and heard that Sunday morning, 25
May 2008. However, probable cause was determined by the NTSB agent. The
four of us have flown extensively together in this part of Oregon. To
understand what a unique experience this was, one would have to have been a
participant. We have been doing this since our first on the Alvord Desert
in 2005.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 080530X00757&key=1
john h
mkIII
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
