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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Hi all C  well I put new skis on the plane yesterday C finished the bungees for them today.  We have about 6" of snow on the ground with more on the way so I taxied a bit C and then poured the coals to it and commited aviation.  I love flying in the winter!  Landed at a local lake C couldn't tell when I was on the ground (lake)  it was so smooooooth.  Of course no one there to see it!   Had to get back to help the wife start supper as she wasn't feeling very good so had just a 40 minute flight C but it was nice.  Temps were about +8 F but the heater helped and I was fine.  Take care all C  Jim Chuk    Avid MK IV   Jabiru   northern MnSend e-mail anywhere. No map C no compass. Get your Hotmail® account now.  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Well, ya beat me to posting, but I got my first ski flight last  

Friday, Jim. I flew to a couple of nearby grass airports with a  

pretty good south wind. I landed so slow and short at Brooklyn,  

Michigan, (6G8) that when I took off, I just had to turn back and  

look at my tracks. The wind was so strong, that it helped me do a  

*real healthy* wingover bank. I figured it was time to put it away,  

and headed for home....122 mph ground speed with 90 airspeed. Had to  

land with this wind....quite a bit less at ground level...coming  

directly from my left, but not a problem. On Sunday, I made a 1.3  

hour day of it, landing at 5 different snow-flecked grass  

strips...not enough snow to warrant my "wheels-penetrate-too-far- 

skis" , but too much for just wheels. Work continues on my new skis,  

with bending/laminating tests underway on Okoume plywood for the  

bottoms, and the learning of TIG-welding starting today. I just  

bought a Miller Diversion 165 TIG machine, and am brushing up/ 

learning this skill.



By the way, Jim, the prop came in, and it's a beauty. I got the old  

one off, drilled the prop bushings out to 5/16" as well as the crush  

plate, and it's ready to install. Our snow pretty much went away  

today as a result of all day rain, but there's cold coming, and more  

precip.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 9, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,  well I put new skis on the plane yesterday, finished the  

 bungees for them today.  We have about 6" of snow on the ground  

 with more on the way so I taxied a bit, and then poured the coals  

 to it and commited aviation.  I love flying in the winter!  Landed  

 at a local lake, couldn't tell when I was on the ground (lake)  it  

 was so smooooooth.  Of course no one there to see it!   Had to get  

 back to help the wife start supper as she wasn't feeling very good  

 so had just a 40 minute flight, but it was nice.  Temps were about  

 +8 F but the heater helped and I was fine.  Take care all,  Jim  

 Chuk    Avid MK IV   Jabiru   northern Mn

 Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. Get your Hotmail® account  

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Hey, Jim, what size are your skis? The ones I'm building are going to  

be about 600 sq. inches for each ski, unless somebody talks me out of  

that large a size. My present skis are about 470 sq. inches. I'm  

building these so that the wheel doesn't penetrate so far and cause  

so much drag. I'm also making them so that no lifting of the plane is  

necessary to install, and no ski area right behind the wheel so no  

"cheese slicer" action will take place. I'm hoping this design will  

allow for less drag, and more staying on top of the snow, instead of  

submarining below it. Mine will be 4130 tubing with plywood bottoms  

and nylon-ish wear bars. Eventually I'm going to make some fiberglass  

tops to enclose the tubing and provide a smooth upper surface so the  

snow won't accumulate there. That will be a vacuum bagging operation,  

which I'm also going to build and learn on.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 9, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,  well I put new skis on the plane yesterday, finished the  

 bungees for them today.  We have about 6" of snow on the ground  

 with more on the way so I taxied a bit, and then poured the coals  

 to it and commited aviation.  I love flying in the winter!  Landed  

 at a local lake, couldn't tell when I was on the ground (lake)  it  

 was so smooooooth.  Of course no one there to see it!   Had to get  

 back to help the wife start supper as she wasn't feeling very good  

 so had just a 40 minute flight, but it was nice.  Temps were about  

 +8 F but the heater helped and I was fine.  Take care all,  Jim  

 Chuk    Avid MK IV   Jabiru   northern Mn

 Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. Get your Hotmail® account  

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: first flight on skis this year

Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares.  In deep powder you want all you can get!



I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days.  Now it is off to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Hi Lynn C  my skis are 9" wide and 60" long.  They are just straight skis C not wheel penetration skis.  I built them out of aluminum and the bottoms are 3/16"  UHMW plastic.  I think they weigh about 10 or 12 lbs each.  Take care C  Jim Chuk   Avid Mk IV   Jabiru   Mn  



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: first flight on skis this year

 Date: Tue C 9 Dec 2008 20:34:22 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Hey C Jim C what size are your skis? The ones I'm building are going to 

 be about 600 sq. inches for each ski C unless somebody talks me out of 

 that large a size. My present skis are about 470 sq. inches. I'm 

 building these so that the wheel doesn't penetrate so far and cause 

 so much drag. I'm also making them so that no lifting of the plane is 

 necessary to install C and no ski area right behind the wheel so no 

 "cheese slicer" action will take place. I'm hoping this design will 

 allow for less drag C and more staying on top of the snow C instead of 

 submarining below it. Mine will be 4130 tubing with plywood bottoms 

 and nylon-ish wear bars. Eventually I'm going to make some fiberglass 

 tops to enclose the tubing and provide a smooth upper surface so the 

 snow won't accumulate there. That will be a vacuum bagging operation C 

 which I'm also going to build and learn on.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition 

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 

 

 

 

 On Dec 9 C 2008 C at 5:55 PM C Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:

 

 > Hi all C well I put new skis on the plane yesterday C finished the 

 > bungees for them today. We have about 6" of snow on the ground 

 > with more on the way so I taxied a bit C and then poured the coals 

 > to it and commited aviation. I love flying in the winter! Landed 

 > at a local lake C couldn't tell when I was on the ground (lake) it 

 > was so smooooooth. Of course no one there to see it! Had to get 

 > back to help the wife start supper as she wasn't feeling very good 

 > so had just a 40 minute flight C but it was nice. Temps were about 

 > +8 F but the heater helped and I was fine. Take care all C Jim 

 > Chuk Avid MK IV Jabiru northern Mn

 > Send e-mail anywhere. No map C no compass. Get your Hotmail® account 

 > ========== _- 

 > =================================== _- 

 > ===================================

 

 

&gt=
	


[quote] 

 

 

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Lynn I think you will have to have some floatation behind the wheel and a

lanyard to stop the ski tips form coming up too far on landing.



Have you considered letting a bit of air out of your tires and putting a

sheet of aluminium under the wheel and then pumping the tire up again to

hold the plate in place...  That will increase your floatation in snow.  You

only have to land on a pond or river to remove the plates before landing on

a paved runway again.



If you have ever seen a set of hydraulic convertible skis that is the same

thing without the expense...  or convenience.



Noel



Noel Loveys

AME Intern, RPP

Kitfox III-A, 

Aerocet 1100 floats

Newfoundland, Canada

 



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Thanks, Jim. So you have 540 sq. in, minus whatever curves up on each  

end if any. My proposed set is going to be about 600 sq. in., most of  

which will be flat, with some of it curving up  at the front and  

back...a bit at the back to facilitate pulling it back into the  

hangar. I shot a picture of some Federal (now Wipair) skis at Oshkosh  

this year, and they had a pretty wide area in front of the wheel.  

Those skis were hydraulically operated to reposition the ski in  

relation to the wheel. I'm not going for the reposition aspect, but I  

do want the larger area. I got almost hung up in 9" of snow last  

year, and I'm hoping that the larger area will prevent that. Mine are  

now tubing with UHMW bottoms, and the new ones will be plywood  

bottoms, with two 4" wide UHMW "wear bars". I did a test of bending  

and gluing together two layers of Okoume plywood, and that came out  

well. Next is a test of applying some fiberglass to enclose the  

plywood, which needs sealing and protecting from the weather. If I  

can stand on the bent section and jump up and down on it, and it  

holds, I'll progress to actually making the ski bottoms, then weld up  

the framework of 4130. If the ply fails, I'll just use UHMW all the  

way with the tubing frames, and test that. The difference between the  

old skis and the new design will then be the lesser wheel penetration  

and the wider area, and the elimination of the "cheese slicer" area  

behind the wheel. I really need the wheels to stay on the plane to  

facilitate ground handling when the snows down south here (Lower  

Michigan, near Ohio) don't materialize, and for getting the plane in  

and out of the hangar. I need/want to be able to fly into grass and  

paved landing strips, and that is the reason for the wheel penetration.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:33 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Lynn,  my skis are 9" wide and 60" long.  They are just straight  

 skis, not wheel penetration skis.  I built them out of aluminum and  

 the bottoms are 3/16"  UHMW plastic.  I think they weigh about 10  

 or 12 lbs each.  Take care,  Jim Chuk   Avid Mk IV   Jabiru   Mn



 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: first flight on skis this year

 > Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:34:22 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Hey, Jim, what size are your skis? The ones I'm building are  

 going to

 > be about 600 sq. inches for each ski, unless somebody talks me  

 out of

 > that large a size. My present skis are about 470 sq. inches. I'm

 > building these so that the wheel doesn't penetrate so far and cause

 > so much drag. I'm also making them so that no lifting of the  

 plane is

 > necessary to install, and no ski area right behind the wheel so no

 > "cheese slicer" action will take place. I'm hoping this design will

 > allow for less drag, and more staying on top of the snow, instead of

 > submarining below it. Mine will be 4130 tubing with plywood bottoms

 > and nylon-ish wear bars. Eventually I'm going to make some  

 fiberglass

 > tops to enclose the tubing and provide a smooth upper surface so the

 > snow won't accumulate there. That will be a vacuum bagging  

 operation,

 > which I'm also going to build and learn on.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition

 > system;

 > also building a new pair of snow skis

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > On Dec 9, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:

 >

 > > Hi all, well I put new skis on the plane yesterday, finished the

 > > bungees for them today. We have about 6" of snow on the ground

 > > with more on the way so I taxied a bit, and then poured the coals

 > > to it and commited aviation. I love flying in the winter! Landed

 > > at a local lake, couldn't tell when I was on the ground (lake) it

 > > was so smooooooth. Of course no one there to see it! Had to get

 > > back to help the wife start supper as she wasn't feeling very good

 > > so had just a 40 minute flight, but it was nice. Temps were about

 > > +8 F but the heater helped and I was fine. Take care all, Jim

 > > Chuk Avid MK IV Jabiru northern Mn

 > > Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. Get your Hotmail®  

 account

 > > ========== _-

 > > =================================== _-

 > > ===================================

 >

 >

 >=

 >

 >

 >



 Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your  

 Hotmail® account._- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

That's my thinking too, Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out  

there it might just add some lift, if it was shaped aerodynamically  

enough. Of course, if we get TOO much area, it might convert to  

friction on the snow, and that would not be good. It sounds like from  

what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently  

looking for an article by a Canadian gent, and or the National  

Research Council of Canada, who wrote a paper or book or something  

about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject,  

and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares.  In deep powder you want all you  

 can get!



 I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy  

 freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days.  Now it is off  

 to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 takes over.



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 18585#218585

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Lynn' 

if you really want to get fancy take a look at the wheel skis that the Canadian Challenger dealers are offering for the Challengers. They have a small electric/hydraulic cylinder that  moves the ski back and forward. This allows the wheel to actually rid up on top of the ski when landing on snow and then when the skis moved back it drops down to penetrate the ski. 

Drop down is really the wrong term as it just basically compresses the tire as it moves back and forward. 

Neat set up, and the little electric pump is actually integral in each cylinder 

Gary

 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

11/12/2008 05:14 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Re: first flight on skis this year 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 That's my thinking too, Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out  

 there it might just add some lift, if it was shaped aerodynamically  

 enough. Of course, if we get TOO much area, it might convert to  

 friction on the snow, and that would not be good. It sounds like from  

 what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently  

 looking for an article by a Canadian gent, and or the National  

 Research Council of Canada, who wrote a paper or book or something  

 about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject,  

 and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 >

 > Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares.  In deep powder you want all you  

 > can get!

 >

 > I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy  

 > freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days.  Now it is off  

 > to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.

 >

 > --------

 > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > Leonard Perry

 > Soldotna AK

 > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > 582 IVO IFA

 > Full Lotus 1260

 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 > takes over.

 >

 > hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218585#218585

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Hi Noel-

The proposed design for the skis I'm building has a 6" wide section  

of ski running parallel to the wheel for the full length of the  

ski...about 60"...but not right behind the ski. So yes, there is ski  

to the rear of the wheel, just not right BEHIND the wheel. It is just  

like the Federal.Wipair hydraulic-repositional wheel-penetration ski  

that I saw at Oshkosh. And of course I have not only one, but two  

1/8" safety cables(redundancy)......that prevent the ski from tipping  

up beyond 5° at the front of the ski, per the ski rigging  

instructions at the rear of 43.13-2A (Advisory Circular) which I'm  

sure you are all familiar with. These safety cables also prevent the  

ski from tipping up too far during flight. I have thought of the  

plate that slips under the wheel, but this is not a good safety  

measure if you consider needing to land at a dry paved strip under  

emergency conditions. And around here with the lakes not frozen over  

yet, that type of emergency landing (the frozen river or pond) is out  

of the question at this point. I feel that I need the wheel to be  

operational at all times for the conditions that I fly in. That type  

of operation...the sliding plate...is only safe if you are flying in  

totally frozen conditions.



  I will also utilize two restraint cables and two bungies at the  

front...redundancy again (and to please my mentor/flight  

instructor)...including crust-cutters so that the bungies don't get  

within 8-12" of the nose of the ski, as pointed out in 43.13. I  

already have these features installed on my present skis.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 Lynn I think you will have to have some floatation behind the wheel  

 and a

 lanyard to stop the ski tips form coming up too far on landing.



 Have you considered letting a bit of air out of your tires and  

 putting a

 sheet of aluminium under the wheel and then pumping the tire up  

 again to

 hold the plate in place...  That will increase your floatation in  

 snow.  You

 only have to land on a pond or river to remove the plates before  

 landing on

 a paved runway again.



 If you have ever seen a set of hydraulic convertible skis that is  

 the same

 thing without the expense...  or convenience.



 Noel



 Noel Loveys

 AME Intern, RPP

 Kitfox III-A,

 Aerocet 1100 floats

 Newfoundland, Canada

 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Other than the expense of the hydraulic system, the "repositionable"  

aspect of those skis is supposedly against the Sport Pilot  

regulations. I'm sure that if I felt that was an option, I'd say  

screw the rules and go that way, but I think the wheel only  

penetrating by about 1/2" (new design), I'll be fine. It should be  

far better than the 1-1/2" to 2" penetration that I employ now.What  

you point out, Gary, is exactly the method that those Federal/ 

Wipair's that I saw at Oshkosh use.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:35 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Lynn'

 if you really want to get fancy take a look at the wheel skis that  

 the Canadian Challenger dealers are offering for the Challengers.  

 They have a small electric/hydraulic cylinder that  moves the ski  

 back and forward. This allows the wheel to actually rid up on top  

 of the ski when landing on snow and then when the skis moved back  

 it drops down to penetrate the ski.



 Drop down is really the wrong term as it just basically compresses  

 the tire as it moves back and forward.



 Neat set up, and the little electric pump is actually integral in  

 each cylinder



 Gary



 Gary Algate

 SMC, Exploration

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the  

 addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of  

 this message by persons or entities other than the intended  

 recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,  

 kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we  

 have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe  

 and happy Christmas".



 Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 11/12/2008 05:14 AM

 Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com



 To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 cc

 Subject

 Re: Re: first flight on skis this year



 



 That's my thinking too, Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out

 there it might just add some lift, if it was shaped aerodynamically

 enough. Of course, if we get TOO much area, it might convert to

 friction on the snow, and that would not be good. It sounds like from

 what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently

 looking for an article by a Canadian gent, and or the National

 Research Council of Canada, who wrote a paper or book or something

 about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject,

 and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis





 On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM, akflyer wrote:



 > 

 <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 >

 > Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares.  In deep powder you want all you

 > can get!

 >

 > I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy

 > freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days.  Now it is off

 > to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.

 >

 > --------

 > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > Leonard Perry

 > Soldotna AK

 > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > 582 IVO IFA

 > Full Lotus 1260

 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis

 > takes over.

 >

 > hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 18585#218585

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Lynn C What about curving the edge behind the wheel up similar to the front of the ski to eliminate the "cheese cutter effect?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 rebuild

 Rockford C IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Re: first flight on skis this year

 Date: Wed C 10 Dec 2008 17:50:01 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Other than the expense of the hydraulic system C the "repositionable" 

 aspect of those skis is supposedly against the Sport Pilot 

 regulations. I'm sure that if I felt that was an option C I'd say 

 screw the rules and go that way C but I think the wheel only 

 penetrating by about 1/2" (new design) C I'll be fine. It should be 

 far better than the 1-1/2" to 2" penetration that I employ now.What 

 you point out C Gary C is exactly the method that those Federal/ 

 Wipair's that I saw at Oshkosh use.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 593hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after rebuild C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition 

 system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 

 

 

 

 On Dec 10 C 2008 C at 4:35 PM C gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:

 

 >

 > Lynn'

 > if you really want to get fancy take a look at the wheel skis that 

 > the Canadian Challenger dealers are offering for the Challengers. 

 > They have a small electric/hydraulic cylinder that moves the ski 

 > back and forward. This allows the wheel to actually rid up on top 

 > of the ski when landing on snow and then when the skis moved back 

 > it drops down to penetrate the ski.

 >

 > Drop down is really the wrong term as it just basically compresses 

 > the tire as it moves back and forward.

 >

 > Neat set up C and the little electric pump is actually integral in 

 > each cylinder

 >

 > Gary

 >

 > Gary Algate

 > SMC C Exploration

 > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 >

 >

 > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the 

 > addressees. Any review C dissemination C distribution C or copying of 

 > this message by persons or entities other than the intended 

 > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error C 

 > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the 

 > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for 

 > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may 

 > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 > “This year C instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail C we 

 > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe 

 > and happy Christmas".

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 > 11/12/2008 05:14 AM

 > Please respond to

 > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > To

 > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > cc

 > Subject

 > Re: Re: first flight on skis this year

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 >

 > That's my thinking too C Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out

 > there it might just add some lift C if it was shaped aerodynamically

 > enough. Of course C if we get TOO much area C it might convert to

 > friction on the snow C and that would not be good. It sounds like from

 > what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently

 > looking for an article by a Canadian gent C and or the National

 > Research Council of Canada C who wrote a paper or book or something

 > about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject C

 > and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.

 >

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 593hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > flying again after rebuild C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition

 > system;

 > also building a new pair of snow skis

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > On Dec 9 C 2008 C at 9:41 PM C akflyer wrote:

 >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 

 > <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > >

 > > Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares. In deep powder you want all you

 > > can get!

 > >

 > > I got mine installed a few days ago C but 40 mph winds and heavy

 > > freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days. Now it is off

 > > to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.

 > >

 > > --------

 > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > Leonard Perry

 > > Soldotna AK

 > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis

 > > takes over.

 > >

 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > Read this topic online here:

 > >

 > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218585#218585

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > ===================================

 

 

 > 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Good point Pat - on my first set of skis the trailing edge of the ski was parallel with the main ski body. Whenever I tried to pull my plane backwards that son of a b- - - -  would just tip down and dig in. My next set had a graceful curve at the rear and I could spin the plane or pull it back with no problems 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

patrick reilly <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com> 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

11/12/2008 09:41 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox matronics <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>   cc

    Subject

 RE: Re: first flight on skis this year 

     

 

 

 

Lynn, What about curving the edge behind the wheel up similar to the front of the ski to eliminate the "cheese cutter effect?

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 

 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Re: first flight on skis this year

 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:50:01 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > 

 > Other than the expense of the hydraulic system, the "repositionable" 

 > aspect of those skis is supposedly against the Sport Pilot 

 > regulations. I'm sure that if I felt that was an option, I'd say 

 > screw the rules and go that way, but I think the wheel only 

 > penetrating by about 1/2" (new design), I'll be fine. It should be 

 > far better than the 1-1/2" to 2" penetration that I employ now.What 

 > you point out, Gary, is exactly the method that those Federal/ 

 > Wipair's that I saw at Oshkosh use.

 > 

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition 

 > system;

 > also building a new pair of snow skis

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:35 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:

 > 

 > >

 > > Lynn'

 > > if you really want to get fancy take a look at the wheel skis that 

 > > the Canadian Challenger dealers are offering for the Challengers. 

 > > They have a small electric/hydraulic cylinder that moves the ski 

 > > back and forward. This allows the wheel to actually rid up on top 

 > > of the ski when landing on snow and then when the skis moved back 

 > > it drops down to penetrate the ski.

 > >

 > > Drop down is really the wrong term as it just basically compresses 

 > > the tire as it moves back and forward.

 > >

 > > Neat set up, and the little electric pump is actually integral in 

 > > each cylinder

 > >

 > > Gary

 > >

 > > Gary Algate

 > > SMC, Exploration

 > > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 > >

 > >

 > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the 

 > > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of 

 > > this message by persons or entities other than the intended 

 > > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 

 > > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the 

 > > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for 

 > > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may 

 > > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 > > “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we 

 > > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe 

 > > and happy Christmas".

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 > > 11/12/2008 05:14 AM

 > > Please respond to

 > > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > To

 > > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > cc

 > > Subject

 > > Re: Re: first flight on skis this year

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > >

 > > That's my thinking too, Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out

 > > there it might just add some lift, if it was shaped aerodynamically

 > > enough. Of course, if we get TOO much area, it might convert to

 > > friction on the snow, and that would not be good. It sounds like from

 > > what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently

 > > looking for an article by a Canadian gent, and or the National

 > > Research Council of Canada, who wrote a paper or book or something

 > > about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject,

 > > and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.

 > >

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 > > Sensenich 62x46

 > > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition

 > > system;

 > > also building a new pair of snow skis

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > >

 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 

 > > <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > > >

 > > > Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares. In deep powder you want all you

 > > > can get!

 > > >

 > > > I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy

 > > > freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days. Now it is off

 > > > to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.

 > > >

 > > > --------

 > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > > Leonard Perry

 > > > Soldotna AK

 > > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis

 > > > takes over.

 > > >

 > > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > Read this topic online here:

 > > >

 > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218585#218585

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > ===================================

 > 

 > 

 > > 

 > 

 > 

  

[b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: first flight on skis this year

That's a good idea, Pat. I hadn't thought about doing that since I  

decided to just eliminate the portion of ski right behind the wheel.  

Doing this serves two purposes....it eliminates the cheese cutter,  

and eliminates the area that tends to collect snow...two birds, one  

stone. : )

I saw a picture of a skiplane that had the rear of the ski bent up,  

and I was able to do that mod on mine (like Gary said), but didn't  

really think of the area right behind the wheel at that time. Even  

now, I have to hook up the winch to drag mine back into the hangar  

after first shoveling the snow from behind it. My new skis will have  

the rear portion bent up a bit more.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 10, 2008, at 5:59 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, What about curving the edge behind the wheel up similar to  

 the front of the ski to eliminate the "cheese cutter effect?



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

I'm with you on the redundancy!  This is a case where more is better.



The plate I was talking about is more of an install plate than a sliding

plate.  The first skis I ever installed were manual hydraulic sliding

plates.  The skis were mounted on springs that allowed the ski to be

displaced an inch or so as the plate was actuated in flight.  It was

reasonable complex and added weight but gave a lot more flotation to the

skis for use in powder snow.  The guy who flew the plane said he only ever

closed the plate when he expected deep powder.



As with most things there is the element of compromise.  Your light plane

doesn't need the flotation that an overloaded Super Cub in ten feet of

powder snow would need.



Don't forget to post a few pictures of the new skis once they are

christened.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Gary:  

   

The guy I bought my plane from only flew it on skis...  No one has flown the bird on wheels yet J .  He built a set of back up points that slid under the skis and were held in place with bungee chords.  He used to tow the plane to a bog behind his snowmobile for takeoff.  Only thing he mentioned to me was to be extremely careful to remove the reverse tips before taking off.  

   

If you want I’ll dig them out and take a couple of pictures.  

   

Noel  

     

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com

 Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:08 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: first flight on skis this year  

  

   



 Good point Pat - on my first set of skis the trailing edge of the ski was parallel with the main ski body. Whenever I tried to pull my plane backwards that son of a b- - - -  would just tip down and dig in. My next set had a graceful curve at the rear and I could spin the plane or pull it back with no problems 

 

 Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

 

 

           



   

   

   

   patrick   reilly <patreilly43(at)hotmail.com>    

Sent by:   owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

   11/12/2008   09:41 AM 

   Please respond   to

   kitfox-list(at)matronics.com                        

To               

kitfox     matronics <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com>                        

cc                            

Subject               

RE:     Re: first flight on skis this year               

                                 



 

 

 Lynn, What about curving the edge behind the wheel up similar to the front of the ski to eliminate the "cheese cutter effect?

 

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 rebuild

 Rockford, IL

 

 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Re: first flight on skis this year

 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:50:01 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > 

 > Other than the expense of the hydraulic system, the "repositionable" 

 > aspect of those skis is supposedly against the Sport Pilot 

 > regulations. I'm sure that if I felt that was an option, I'd say 

 > screw the rules and go that way, but I think the wheel only 

 > penetrating by about 1/2" (new design), I'll be fine. It should be 

 > far better than the 1-1/2" to 2" penetration that I employ now.What 

 > you point out, Gary, is exactly the method that those Federal/ 

 > Wipair's that I saw at Oshkosh use.

 > 

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition 

 > system;

 > also building a new pair of snow skis

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:35 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:

 > 

 > >

 > > Lynn'

 > > if you really want to get fancy take a look at the wheel skis that 

 > > the Canadian Challenger dealers are offering for the Challengers. 

 > > They have a small electric/hydraulic cylinder that moves the ski 

 > > back and forward. This allows the wheel to actually rid up on top 

 > > of the ski when landing on snow and then when the skis moved back 

 > > it drops down to penetrate the ski.

 > >

 > > Drop down is really the wrong term as it just basically compresses 

 > > the tire as it moves back and forward.

 > >

 > > Neat set up, and the little electric pump is actually integral in 

 > > each cylinder

 > >

 > > Gary

 > >

 > > Gary Algate

 > > SMC, Exploration

 > > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 > >

 > >

 > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the 

 > > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of 

 > > this message by persons or entities other than the intended 

 > > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, 

 > > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the 

 > > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for 

 > > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may 

 > > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 > > “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we 

 > > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe 

 > > and happy Christmas".

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com

 > > 11/12/2008 05:14 AM

 > > Please respond to

 > > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > To

 > > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > cc

 > > Subject

 > > Re: Re: first flight on skis this year

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > >

 > > That's my thinking too, Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out

 > > there it might just add some lift, if it was shaped aerodynamically

 > > enough. Of course, if we get TOO much area, it might convert to

 > > friction on the snow, and that would not be good. It sounds like from

 > > what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently

 > > looking for an article by a Canadian gent, and or the National

 > > Research Council of Canada, who wrote a paper or book or something

 > > about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject,

 > > and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.

 > >

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

 > > Sensenich 62x46

 > > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition

 > > system;

 > > also building a new pair of snow skis

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM, akflyer wrote:

 > >

 > > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" 

 > > <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>

 > > >

 > > > Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares. In deep powder you want all you

 > > > can get!

 > > >

 > > > I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy

 > > > freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days. Now it is off

 > > > to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.

 > > >

 > > > --------

 > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE

 > > > Leonard Perry

 > > > Soldotna AK

 > > > Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 > > > 582 IVO IFA

 > > > Full Lotus 1260

 > > > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis

 > > > takes over.

 > > >

 > > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > Read this topic online here:

 > > >

 > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218585#218585

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > ==========

 > 

 > 

 > > 

 > 

 > 

 

 

 

 ===========

 --

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Lynn:



Do you use a tail ski?  A lot of the bush pilots I've talked to say the use

of a tail ski only throws off the balance of a light plane.  Heavier planes

like the DHC-3 Otter really need a tail ski.  I seem to remember seeing

pictures of a DC-3 on skis with a tail ski.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Will do, Noel.

Every time I look at pictures of skis, I get another idea...I just  

looked again at the Wipaire skis, and noticed they bend the outer  

edges of the ski up a slight amount, like a spray rail on a boat, I'd  

imagine. I'm back to the drawing board.......: )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis





On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm with you on the redundancy!  This is a case where more is better.



 The plate I was talking about is more of an install plate than a  

 sliding

 plate.  The first skis I ever installed were manual hydraulic sliding

 plates.  The skis were mounted on springs that allowed the ski to be

 displaced an inch or so as the plate was actuated in flight.  It was

 reasonable complex and added weight but gave a lot more flotation  

 to the

 skis for use in powder snow.  The guy who flew the plane said he  

 only ever

 closed the plate when he expected deep powder.



 As with most things there is the element of compromise.  Your light  

 plane

 doesn't need the flotation that an overloaded Super Cub in ten feet of

 powder snow would need.



 Don't forget to post a few pictures of the new skis once they are

 christened.



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

Please do, Noel...for Gary AND me.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Gary:



 The guy I bought my plane from only flew it on skis...  No one has  

 flown the bird on wheels yet J .  He built a set of back up points  

 that slid under the skis and were held in place with bungee  

 chords.  He used to tow the plane to a bog behind his snowmobile  

 for takeoff.  Only thing he mentioned to me was to be extremely  

 careful to remove the reverse tips before taking off.



 If you want I’ll dig them out and take a couple of pictures.



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: first flight on skis this year

I was thinking of using one, but I'm not committed to it yet. That  

was one of the things that I thought might help with the "getting (un) 

stuck in 9" of snow" problem that I had last year.

So far I've been ok without one, but......



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis



On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn:



 Do you use a tail ski?  A lot of the bush pilots I've talked to say  

 the use

 of a tail ski only throws off the balance of a light plane.   

 Heavier planes

 like the DHC-3 Otter really need a tail ski.  I seem to remember  

 seeing

 pictures of a DC-3 on skis with a tail ski.



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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