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Brake Problems

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SkySteve

Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:04 am Post subject: Brake Problems

I am having some brake problems.  I have new Grove 6" wheels, new Grove disc brakes, new Matco individual brake cylinders on all 4 pedals (pilot & passenger sides have brakes) , a master cylinder and new steel braided brake lines. 



When I apply brakes to turn (or make a correction to stay going straight), I have to apply pressure with my feet to both brake pedals to get brake pressure.  then press harder on the brake I want to engage while lessening the pressure on the opposite brake.  In other words, to apply the right brake I have to apply pressure to both brake pedals.  Then, while applying additional pressure to the right brake pedal I release an equal amount of pressure from the left brake pedal.  



Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal to turn right and push on the left pedal to turn left.  Is this situation common?  Or do I have a screwed up mess?

_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: Brake Problems

Must be screwed up somewhere. I followed the routing diagram when  

hooking mine up (Matco wheel cyls, and Cleveland masters) and have no  

such problems. You should check with Matco, I would think, to get  

their input on the correct routing of the lines, being as how their  

masters are involved. The type of wheel cylinders shouldn't make any  

difference, unless the masters and the wheel cyls are incompatible  

due to size. I'm guessing the "goes-intas" and "goes-outtas" are  

mixed up somehow. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/530 hrs





On Jun 19, 2008, at 11:04 AM, SkySteve wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am having some brake problems.  I have new Grove 6" wheels, new  

 Grove disc brakes, new Matco individual brake cylinders on all 4  

 pedals (pilot & passenger sides have brakes) , a master cylinder  

 and new steel braided brake lines.



 When I apply brakes to turn (or make a correction to stay going  

 straight), I have to apply pressure with my feet to both brake  

 pedals to get brake pressure.  then press harder on the brake I  

 want to engage while lessening the pressure on the opposite brake.   

 In other words, to apply the right brake I have to apply pressure  

 to both brake pedals.  Then, while applying additional pressure to  

 the right brake pedal I release an equal amount of pressure from  

 the left brake pedal.



 Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal  

 to turn right and push on the left pedal to turn left.  Is this  

 situation common?  Or do I have a screwed up mess?



 --------

 Steve Wilson

 Huntsville, UT

 Kitfox Model 134 - 85DD

 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive

 Convertible Nosewheel &amp; Tailwheel





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188596#188596

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Brake Problems

At 08:04 AM 6/19/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal 

to turn right and push on the left pedal to turn left.  Is this 

situation common?  Or do I have a screwed up mess?


	


You have a screwed up mess.  What happens when you push just one? 

(It sounds a little like they're cross-connected.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: Brake Problems

Steve,

	Give us a shout... 



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

Ph 208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com 

"The Sky is not the Limit...  It's a Playground" 

--

jridgway

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Problems

Their was a funny hydraulic 'lock up' problem when you used dual MATCO brakes. Make sure you do not have the old GRAY IRON looking kind. This problem was fixed with the newer GOLD ANODIZED version.

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: Brake Problems

What "Funny lock up problem"? And what about using a GRAY ALUMINUM looking one and a GOLD ANODIZED one?

  

  

 Pat REilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Brake Problems

 From: jridgway(at)academicplanet.com

 Date: Fri C 26 Dec 2008 23:45:39 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jridgway" <jridgway(at)academicplanet.com>

 

 Their was a funny hydraulic 'lock up' problem when you used dual MATCO brakes. Make sure you do not have the old GRAY IRON looking kind. This problem was fixed with the newer GOLD ANODIZED version.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221327#221327

 

 

 

 

&gt=======================
	


&g=====

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

SkySteve

Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 94
Location: Huntsville, UT

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:00 am Post subject: Re: Brake Problems

I do have the gold anodized ones.  They are still not right, but I have learned to deal with them.  I must hold the left brake while depressing the right brake or I do not get braking action on the right brake.

_________________
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 1- 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Brake Problems

Pat,



In the early days the Matco brakes - if passenger and pilot brakes were both 

installed - would lock up if the passenger touched his brakes at the same 

time the pilot applied the brakes.  It would require exiting the airplane 

and bleeding off a bit of pressure at the bleed nipple on the caliper.  Big 

bother.  It was one of the reasons I never had passenger side brakes.  It 

did become a slight issue a couple of times as my airplane was loaned for 

checkrides and the check pilot found himself with no brakes on his side.



Lowell



---

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:49 am Post subject: Brake Problems

No they were not fixed with the GOLD ANODIZED version.  The gold ones which I have now are exactly like the old ones.  The master cylinders used for the dual brakes were not Matco C they were a non certified version of Cleveland.  Parts are the same but numbers are different.  The Kitfox Model IV's at least mine supplied me with Cleveland C dual brakes.  The old sand cast aluminum work just as well as the new pretty ones.  Clint

  

  

 Model IV  1400 hours

 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Brake Problems

 From: jridgway(at)academicplanet.com

 Date: Fri C 26 Dec 2008 23:45:39 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "jridgway" <jridgway(at)academicplanet.com>

 

 Their was a funny hydraulic 'lock up' problem when you used dual MATCO brakes. Make sure you do not have the old GRAY IRON looking kind. This problem was fixed with the newer GOLD ANODIZED version.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221327#221327

 

 

 

 

 

&gt======================
	


&gt===

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

jridgway

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Problems

Sorry,

The problem I was expressing was with the older MATCO brakes. I was told by MATCO this problem 'was fixed' with the newer GOLD anodized master cylinders. Their was also a 'mod' avaiable for the old style if you wished to go that way.

Jack

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Brake Problems

Lowell C Thanks for explanation. I have brakes on both sides. If it happen C I will know what is going in.

  

 do not archive

  

 Pat Reilly



[quote] From: lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Brake Problems

 Date: Sat C 27 Dec 2008 12:51:37 -0800

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>

 

 Pat C

 

 In the early days the Matco brakes - if passenger and pilot brakes were both 

 installed - would lock up if the passenger touched his brakes at the same 

 time the pilot applied the brakes. It would require exiting the airplane 

 and bleeding off a bit of pressure at the bleed nipple on the caliper. Big 

 bother. It was one of the reasons I never had passenger side brakes. It 

 did become a slight issue a couple of times as my airplane was loaned for 

 checkrides and the check pilot found himself with no brakes on his side.

 

 Lowell

 

 ---

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