 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
 Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
 |
|
Just wondering about this... When I was trained to fly C-172 I was trained
to hold attitudes that were similar to conventional gear just before
touchdown. I can say without any fear of contradiction that my first
landings were not the best in the world... The C-172 seemed to forgive the
fact I was intent on landing sideways. With a little practice I stopped
sliding around like a drunken sailor.
Take offs were another quintal of fish.. My first take offs were basically
firewall the C and slowly pull back until I left the ground.
Now the question... Where do most ground loops occur in both tricycle and
conventional gear? It is easy to see how a tricycle stays straighter on
touchdown than a conventional... but it is also easy to see how a tricycle
gear may not handle downwind as well as a conventional. Do the tricycle
gear handle crosswind taxis better?
My interest in this is just slightly academic as I fly floats and in this
country there is no endorsement for conventional gear. If I were to try the
black doughnut thingies (wheels)though I would get some instruction on them.
Noel
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
|
|
Noel, I will take a stab on this one - an opinion and an example. My
feeling is that tricycle will will be a bit easier to taxi in cross winds.
That said, I was a passenger in a flight of three Kifoxes, one of our list
moderators was in the flight of three and can verify this. We landed at a
Northern California airport for fuel on our way back from Oregon. They were
reporting 32 kts from the North - straight down the runway.. We obviously
landed North, but the taxi to the fuel pumps took us at exactly 90° to the
wind for about 100 ft. or so. None of the airplanes had difficulty
maintaining directional conrol, though it requires vigilance and a lot of
memory as to what the approriate stick positions should be depending on
where, relative to the wind, the nose is pointing.
Several years ago, the same three minus the list moderator plus five others
once landed in similar winds - reported at 28 - at about 90° to the runway.
We needed a wing walker to exit our airplanes at the pumps to avoid the
airplanes weathercocking. None of the airplanes did anything unusual -
groundloop or veer of the hard surface. We stayed the night. This place
was Jackpot, Nevada I still feel extremely lucky with that landing.
Lowell
---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
|
|
Noel,
The big difference between the tail dragger and the nose gear that
influences ground looping when landing with a side load or having some
sideways drift when you touch down is that the CG in the nose gear airplane
is ahead of the main gear and tends to straighten out a sideways landing, on
the other hand a tail wheel airplane's CG is aft of the main gear and tends
to exaggerate or continue the sideways motion on landing thus producing a
ground loop.
Lloyd
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox5flyer
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:23 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
|
|
If I remember correctly, the tricycle gear, along with a steering wheel
instead of a stick, came along because the industry was trying to make
airplanes like cars, easy to "drive", therefore easier to sell. Nothing
more than that.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
---
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sbennett3(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
|
|
Lloyd, Unless you continue to fly the plane even once its on the ground. What produces a ground loop is the pilot quits controlling the plane thinking "ground" is safe and job is complete. You're not finished flying a td until you can walk next to it as fast as you are taxiing and in no wind. I agree with all else you said, but crab landings don't equal ground loops. You just gotta fix it before the loop happens... Steve Bennett Classic 4 912 997 hrs No loops (one almost)
In a message dated 01/01/09 20:20:02 Eastern Standard Time, 7suds(at)Chartermi.net writes:
[quote] .aolmailheader {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial} a.aolmailheader:link {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:active {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} a.aolmailheader:hover {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal} --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds(at)chartermi.net>
Noel,
The big difference between the tail dragger and the nose gear that
influences ground looping when landing with a side load or having some
sideways drift when you touch down is that the CG in the nose gear airplane
is ahead of the main gear and tends to straighten out a sideways landing, on
the other hand a tail wheel airplane's CG is aft of the main gear and tends
to exaggerate or continue the sideways motion on landing thus producing a
ground loop.
Lloyd
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
|
|
Deke sez:
| Quote: | If I remember correctly, the tricycle gear, along with a steering
wheel instead of a stick, came along because the industry was trying
to make airplanes like cars, easy to "drive", therefore easier to
sell. Nothing more than that.
|
Didn't both of those things originate with airline and military
aircraft? Hardly seems like those markets would care about being
car-like. In heavy aircraft like bombers and airliners, being able
to easily place two hands on the yoke would allow more muscle for
control movements. I once had a ride in a Ford Tri-motor and the
pilot told me that the plane is very heavy in roll--sometimes help
from the copilot is necessary.
As with all things in aviation (and life, for that matter),
everything is a compromise. Choices between yokes and sticks, nose
wheels and tail wheels, etc., all provide fertile ground for the
aircraft designer's imagination.
What does all this have to do with floats and exhaust pipes again? 
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: Floats with the new exhaust pipe. |
|
|
Steve,
I was not implying that a crab landing equals a ground loop, I was merely saying that landing with a side load, that is an actual touchdown that slips you sideways in your seat, not just a crabbed approach is more likely to induce a ground loop in a tail wheel aircraft than in a nose wheel aircraft because of the CG location, and I agree completely you are not done flying a tail wheel aircraft just because it is on the ground.
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sbennett3
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:43 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Floats with the new exhaust pipe.
Lloyd, Unless you continue to fly the plane even once its on the ground. What produces a ground loop is the pilot quits controlling the plane thinking "ground" is safe and job is complete. You're not finished flying a td until you can walk next to it as fast as you are taxiing and in no wind. I agree with all else you said, but crab landings don't equal ground loops. You just gotta fix it before the loop happens... Steve Bennett Classic 4 912 997 hrs No loops (one almost)
In a message dated 01/01/09 20:20:02 Eastern Standard Time, 7suds(at)Chartermi.net writes:
[quote]
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds(at)chartermi.net>
Noel,
The big difference between the tail dragger and the nose gear that
influences ground looping when landing with a side load or having some
sideways drift when you touch down is that the CG in the nose gear airplane
is ahead of the main gear and tends to straighten out a sideways landing, on
the other hand a tail wheel airplane's CG is aft of the main gear and tends
to exaggerate or continue the sideways motion on landing thus producing a
ground loop.
Lloyd
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
