Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Fuel flow indicator

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:37 am Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

It should work just fine, Lynn.   The sender measures the flow through the 

line.   Once you become accustomed to having a fuel flow gauge, you'll never 

have another airplane without one.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



 Lynn scribbled:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would think that the F210 would work with gravity fuel flow...why 

 wouldn't it?

 Lynn Matteson

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the  

installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the  

transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit  

of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area  

between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru  

engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90° fitting on  

either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.  

They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be  

cleared more easily.

Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any  

problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think  

that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,  

unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer  

where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller  

measuring device, right?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Fuel flow indicator

 	  Lynn Matteson wrote: 	
		  My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the  

installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the  

transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit  

of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area  

between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru  

engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90ï¿½ fitting on  

either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.  

They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be  

cleared more easily.

Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any  

problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think  

that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,  

unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer  

where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller  

measuring device, right?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive 	




Lynn,



Mine is coming off the header tank behind the seat and I put about a 15% slope to it.  It works just fine.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Thanks Leonard...I might get away with a bit of slope to mine  

too....drop the fuel line to the floor level of my console, a slight  

bend up, then the transducer, then a slight bend from the transducer  

to the roof of the console, then forward...ought to work.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Jan 10, 2009, at 1:56 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Lynn Matteson wrote:

> My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the

> installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the

> transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit

> of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area

> between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru

> engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90ï¿½ fitting on

> either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.

> They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be

> cleared more easily.

> Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any

> problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think

> that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,

> unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer

> where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller

> measuring device, right?

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

> Sensenich 62x46

> flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire

> ignition system;

> also building a new pair of snow skis

> do not archive

 Lynn,



 Mine is coming off the header tank behind the seat and I put about  

 a 15% slope to it.  It works just fine.



 --------

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 takes over.



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 23892#223892

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Received mine today also.   Larry

---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:08 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel flow indicator

 	  larry huntley wrote: 	
		  Received mine today also.   Larry

--- 	




Larry, let me know how you make out with it.  Even though I only have the 10 gallon tank in mine, it would be nice to be able to figure fuel burn rate for best distance.



Andrew

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Lynn, not being one to follow the crowd or be quick to do what I'm told, I 

mounted mine horizontally.  Their reasons have merit.  However, if it's 

mounted down low, like mine is,  just after it comes out of the header, 

there should be no bubbles as they will move toward the highest point and 

away from the transducer.  Once it's installed, just pump a couple gallons 

of gas through it and any air in the system should be gone.  Over 400 hours 

on mine and no problems.

You're correct on how the impeller works.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the 

 installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the 

 transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit  of a 

 problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area  between the 

 header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru  engine. I may have 

 to install in my console, using a 90° fitting on  either side of it, due 

 to limited vertical space inside the console.  They say the vertical 

 mounting is so that any air bubbles can be  cleared more easily.

 Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any  problems? 

 I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think  that any air 

 bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,  unless there is a 

 "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer  where the impeller 

 resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller  measuring device, 

 right?



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire 

 ignition system;

 also building a new pair of snow skis

 do not archive

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Hi Andrew,

  Heard you were under the weather. Hope things are picking up.

 Kitfox will be a while. Champ fuselage will be out of the shop next week 

Fox bottom cowl is undergoing surgery to reposition the radiator. It will be 

in the shop next and will get a carb change and a muffler system. I think it 

will fly within the month. Getting the skis cleaned up just in case..

  I have a place in mind for the monitor ,but I have to read and find oiut 

if it needs to be forward of the fuel pump or if it can be behind it just 

below the header.

  Small tank might be even more reason for a monitor. 

Larry

---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Thanks, Deke. I'll mount mine according to what vertical room I have  

within the confines of the console, taking their "must be mounted  

vertically" note in BOLD FACE lettering into account. Sounds like you  

and Leonard both bucked the system. : ) My only concern about it NOT  

being vertical is that there might be a pocket  in the impeller  

cavity where air could hide, and hinder readings.



By the way, the skis are coming along, one is finished, ready for  

primer, and the other is waiting for the proprietor of the ski shop  

to get his butt back out there and  finish it up. The hangar driveway  

is cleared out, the ramp will get a snowthrower touch up today, and  

the skis could be going on tomorrow. Don't ya love this new snow? We  

just got about 10" of more in the last two days....just in time for  

the test of the skis.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Jan 10, 2009, at 8:18 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Lynn, not being one to follow the crowd or be quick to do what I'm  

 told, I mounted mine horizontally.  Their reasons have merit.   

 However, if it's mounted down low, like mine is,  just after it  

 comes out of the header, there should be no bubbles as they will  

 move toward the highest point and away from the transducer.  Once  

 it's installed, just pump a couple gallons of gas through it and  

 any air in the system should be gone.  Over 400 hours on mine and  

 no problems.

 You're correct on how the impeller works.

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

 "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  

 progress."

 - Joseph Joubert



> 

>

> My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the  

> installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the  

> transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a  

> bit  of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical  

> area  between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a  

> Jabiru  engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90°  

> fitting on  either side of it, due to limited vertical space  

> inside the console.  They say the vertical mounting is so that any  

> air bubbles can be  cleared more easily.

> Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any   

> problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd  

> think  that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather  

> quickly,  unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the  

> transducer  where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a  

> rotating-impeller  measuring device, right?

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

> Sensenich 62x46

> flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

> ignition system;

> also building a new pair of snow skis

> do not archive

>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel flow indicator

It is a "turbine" in there not an impeller.... now you can brag about having a turbine in your kitfox....



Here are a couple pics of mine

Transducer install 2.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

270.58 KB

Viewed:

464 Time(s)

Transducer install 1.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

309.39 KB

Viewed:

463 Time(s)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Touche....  : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Jan 11, 2009, at 7:38 PM, akflyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 It is a "turbine" in there not an impeller..


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   DO NOT ARCHIVE

 Leonard Perry

 Soldotna AK

 Avid &quot;C&quot; / Mk IV

 582 IVO IFA

 Full Lotus 1260

 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis  

 takes over.



 hander outer of humorless darwin awards





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 24120#224120





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/transducer_install_2_161.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/transducer_install_1_608.jpg

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

I have always wanted a fuel flow gage in my Kitfox but I am a little concerned about the sending unit. What if the rotor jams? Will it stop the fuel flow to the engine? Now I had one in my Piper Pacer  before I sold it and I loved it.(it was the EI aviation unit) That Northstar unit is sure tempting me as it is cheap, light and has lots of useful features.

  Another useful item I would not be without is my Monroy traffic alerter. It works very well at detecting traffic. I now have it installed in my panel vs on top of the glareshield.

                                                      Dick Maddux

                                                      Pensacola,Fl

  



New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making headlines.

  [quote][b]

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel flow indicator

[quote="Dick Maddux"]I have always wanted a fuel flow gage in my Kitfox but I am a little concerned about the sending unit. What if the rotor jams? Will it stop the fuel flow to the engine? Now I had one in my Piper Pacer  before I sold it and I loved it.(it was the EI aviation unit) That Northstar unit is sure tempting me as it is cheap, light and has lots of useful features.

  Another useful item I would not be without is my Monroy traffic alerter. It works very well at detecting traffic. I now have it installed in my panel vs on top of the glareshield.

            ï¿½            ï¿½            ï¿½           ï¿½   Dick Maddux

            ï¿½            ï¿½            ï¿½           ï¿½   Pensacola,Fl

  



New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making headlines.

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




I cant imagine how big of a piece of crap it would take to stop the turbine from flowing fuel.  If you are that worried, you could run a simple bypass valve and line around it in the extremely remote event that it stopped flowing.  But if you are going to go to that length, you may as well run a redundant fuel system to include new pick ups in the tanks all the way to an additional fuel pump.  May even try to bolt another set of carbs inline incase one get some crap jammed in the needle.



I would not be too worried about it.  Just run the clear filter in front of it as the instructions call for (you can see it in the pics I posted) and you should be golden.  I am convinced that the benefits far out weight the negatives or what if's.  You would be amazed what 30-50 rpm will do for fuel burn (let alone a couple hundred RPM) versus the speed difference it shows on the GPS.

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

The way the turbine is designed it will allow full flow thru even if it jams. 

 

I have been using them for approx 6 yrs and no problems

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 

 

 

 

    

 

 

 

Catz631(at)aol.com 

Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

13/01/2009 03:22 AM 

Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com     To

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com   cc

    Subject

 Re: Fuel flow indicator 

     

 

 

 

I have always wanted a fuel flow gage in my Kitfox but I am a little concerned about the sending unit. What if the rotor jams? Will it stop the fuel flow to the engine? Now I had one in my Piper Pacer  before I sold it and I loved it.(it was the EI aviation unit) That Northstar unit is sure tempting me as it is cheap, light and has lots of useful features. 

 Another useful item I would not be without is my Monroy traffic alerter. It works very well at detecting traffic. I now have it installed in my panel vs on top of the glareshield. 

                                                     Dick Maddux 

                                                     Pensacola,Fl 

  



 

  

 New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. 

[b]

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:47 pm Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

Correct Gary.



 Boatersland has the northstar F210 on sale $109. Good until 1/31

 Paul

 ==========



 At 01:20 PM 1/12/2009, you wrote:



 [quote]The way the turbine is designed it will allow full flow thru even if it jams. 



 I have been using them for approx 6 yrs and no problems



 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 



 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.

 “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". 



 



 



 



 Catz631(at)aol.com 



 Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 13/01/2009 03:22 AM 

 Please respond to

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

 To

 

 kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

 cc

 Subject

 

 Re: Fuel flow indicator 



 



 

 I have always wanted a fuel flow gage in my Kitfox but I am a little concerned about the sending unit. What if the rotor jams? Will it stop the fuel flow to the engine? Now I had one in my Piper Pacer  before I sold it and I loved it.(it was the EI aviation unit) That Northstar unit is sure tempting me as it is cheap, light and has lots of useful features. 

  Another useful item I would not be without is my Monroy traffic alerter. It works very well at detecting traffic. I now have it installed in my panel vs on top of the glareshield. 

                                                       Dick Maddux 

                                                       Pensacola,Fl 

   

 



 

  New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making  headlines . 

 



 Kitfox-List Email Forum -

   http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List 

 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

   http://forums.matronics.com 

 - List Contribution Web Site -

 -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

   http://www.matronics.com/contribution 

 



 [b]

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:12 am Post subject: Fuel flow indicator

OK ! You guys have convinced me I am buying one of these Northstar units today at the super deluxe price of $109. Now I just have to find a space in my panel as it is full of stuff.

                                                    Dick Maddux

                                                     Pensacola,Fl



New year...new news.  Be the first to know what is making headlines.

  [quote][b]

jridgway

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel flow indicator

I had one years ago on another aircraft years ago. LOVED IT !! Just got one for my KF3. What I usually did was measure the fuel in the wing tank with a 'accurately calibrated' measuring stick..then enter this value in my Fuel Computer during normal engine warm up / preflight procedures. I would update gallons on board (i.e. fuel remaining) every time I added gas to the aircraft. If I had not flown for few weeks or so, I would do measuring stick double check / recalibrate during my preflight..saved my butt twice..



I also just added a low fuel sensor on my KF3. I welded up a lightweight aluminum tube (about the size of a bathroom paper tissue tube) and put a float switch in it and put it in line between the header tank and one wing tank. I did this because I did not want to risk trying to put it in the header tanks and get a leak I could not stop.



Jack

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum