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saolesen(at)sirentel.net
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 Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel when
I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the full up
position. I had no indication that the controls had any
interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain
positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod
rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the
hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A &
W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not discovered
earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control surface. As
it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the edge of the hole
and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of the hole. The
rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem
with the right aileron push rod except it was the manufactured head
and it squealed every time it went through the hole. It too was
vertical. With problems on both sides, I think that this may be more
than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For
anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the
push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There
maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the
rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to
inspect this area for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given
the severity of the potential consequences this requires another
look. I am looking for a first flight around New Year's and this
problem could have been a disaster. My blood runs cold thinking
about a first flight with this problem lurking undetected.
Sheldon Olesen
#40080
N475PV Ready to fly; just waiting decent weather and snow & ice free
runway
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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Great find, Sheldon. May all your future hours be uneventful.
Happy New Year.
John Cox
do not archive
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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It's been a long time since this issue has been brought up, but
it has been brought up before. That hole where the aileron pushrod
goes through needs to be opened to have enough clearance to guarantee
that no rivets get hung up. And, the manufactured heads of the
rivets need to be flat enough not to stick up any extra. Most people
from the old days (back 2 years or so) discussed the need to
file open this hole a little more. Thanks for bringing it up again,
so that the more recent builders don't get bit by it. You're right,
it's definitely a place to inspect. I prepped mine well initially,
and had no problem, but I knew to watch for it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Sheldon Olesen wrote:
| Quote: |
I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel when I
was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the full up
position. I had no indication that the controls had any interference.
There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain positions, no
squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod rivet
(W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the hole where
the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A & W-1007D) to the
aileron. I think the reason this was not discovered earlier was that
the rivet was the stop for that control surface. As it wore, it became
more rounded and finally jump the edge of the hole and the square edge
was solidly stuck forward of the hole. The rivet in question was
vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem with the right aileron
push rod except it was the manufactured head and it squealed every time
it went through the hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both
sides, I think that this may be more than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For
anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the
push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There maybe
interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the rivets are
skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to inspect this area
for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given
the severity of the potential consequences this requires another look.
I am looking for a first flight around New Year's and this problem could
have been a disaster. My blood runs cold thinking about a first flight
with this problem lurking undetected.
Sheldon Olesen
#40080
N475PV Ready to fly; just waiting decent weather and snow & ice free runway
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scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.co
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
Subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net (saolesen(at)sirentel.net)>
I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel when I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the full up position. I had no indication that the controls had any interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A & W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not discovered earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control surface. As it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the edge of the hole and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think that this may be more than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given the severity of the potential consequences this requires another look. I am looking for a first flight around New [quote][b]
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now it is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
BTW, Happy New Year to all!
Jesse SaintSaint Aviation
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net (saolesen(at)sirentel.net)>
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
Subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
solidly stuck forward of the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think that this may be more than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given the severity of the potential consequences this requires another look. I am looking for a first flight around New | Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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I have heard they changed the hole a bit too... Actually
A couple years ago too. Hopefully for newer kits there
Is no issue....and for old kits it's an easy fix.
As long as clearance is made and people are aware to
Check for it there should be no problem....I'll add it
To the gotcha list.
Tim
On Jan 1, 2009, at 7:55 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
[quote]I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now it is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
BTW, Happy New Year to all!
Jesse SaintSaint Aviation
[url=mailto:jesse(at)saintaviation.com]jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)[/url]
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <[url=mailto:scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com]scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)[/url]> wrote:
| Quote: | Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
Scott Schmidt[url=mailto:scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com]scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)[/url]
From: Sheldon Olesen <[url=mailto:saolesen(at)sirentel.net]saolesen(at)sirentel.net (saolesen(at)sirentel.net)[/url]>
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
Subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
solidly stuck forward of the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think that this may be more than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given the severity of the potential consequences this requires another look. I am looking for a first flight around New
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
|
[b]
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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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I looked at my W-1008 as it comes out of the rear spar and it moves without an issue (4/2008 wing kit). You are correct that it is more of a oval- like an upside-down "L\" (larger/wider side on top of wing) hole that is radiused than a rectangular.
One item I do recall about this section was that the push rod does move in as the aileron is extended and if there is a long enough shop head it would rub the A-1007 sooner, I recall that the distance the aileron needed to deflect down, however made it that this shouldn't be a real issue once the ailerons are fully rigged, nevertheless commenting on the only issue I see with my setup.
Pascal
From: Jesse Saint (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:55 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now it is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
BTW, Happy New Year to all!
Jesse Saint Saint Aviation
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
352-427-0285
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)
From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net (saolesen(at)sirentel.net)>
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
Subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sheldon Olesen <[url=mailto:saolesen(at)sirentel.net]saolesen(at)sirentel.net (saolesen(at)sirentel.net)[/url]>
I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel when I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the full up position. I had no indication that the controls had any interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A & W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not discovered earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control surface. As it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the edge of the hole and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think that this may be more than just my problem.
I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences. For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical. There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but given the severity of the potential consequences this requires another look. I am looking for a first flight around New | Quote: |
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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
[b]
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avu1(at)md.metrocast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences |
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Just to clarify Sheldon'ts original email... Those rivets on the aeil push
rods were never itended to be used as control surface stops.
Anh
| Quote: | I have heard they changed the hole a bit too... Actually
A couple years ago too. Hopefully for newer kits there
Is no issue....and for old kits it's an easy fix.
As long as clearance is made and people are aware to
Check for it there should be no problem....I'll add it
To the gotcha list.
Tim
On Jan 1, 2009, at 7:55 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com> wrote:
> I think Van's has changed the size and shape of the hole in more
> recent kits. Any comments from current builders? I seem to remember
> that earlier kits had rectangular holes with radiused corners. Now
> it is more egg-shaped (for lack of a better term).
>
> BTW, Happy New Year to all!
>
> Jesse Saint
> Saint Aviation
> jesse(at)saintaviation.com
> 352-427-0285
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:57 AM, Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Mine was exactly like you mentioned and Tim mentioned as well.
>> I filed and opened up the hole to allow proper clearance. It
>> probably should not have occurred but it is an easy fix.
>>
>> Scott Schmidt
>> scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
>>
>>
>> From: Sheldon Olesen <saolesen(at)sirentel.net>
>> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:37:57 PM
>> Subject: Warning--Aileron push rod interferences
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>> I was sitting in my 10 checking out the controls for full travel
>> when I was shocked to find that the left aileron was stuck in the
>> full up position. I had no indication that the controls had any
>> interference. There was no rubbing sound, no tightness in certain
>> positions, no squealing metal rubbing together-- it just locked up.
>>
>> I investigated and found that the shop head of an aileron push rod
>> rivet (W-1018 assembly) was stuck forward of the bottom edge of the
>> hole where the push rod passes through the rear spar (W-1007A &
>> W-1007D) to the aileron. I think the reason this was not
>> discovered earlier was that the rivet was the stop for that control
>> surface. As it wore, it became more rounded and finally jump the
>> edge of the hole and the square edge was solidly stuck forward of
>> the hole. The rivet in question was vertical to the hole. I had
>> a similar problem with the right aileron push rod except it was the
>> manufactured head and it squealed every time it went through the
>> hole. It too was vertical. With problems on both sides, I think
>> that this may be more than just my problem.
>>
>> I have since enlarged the holes to eliminate the interferences.
>> For anyone still building, I would recommend enlarging the bottom
>> of the push rod hole and making sure the rivets are not vertical.
>> There maybe interference issues with the outboard side of the hole
>> if the rivets are skewed from vertical. For anyone flying, be
>> sure to inspect this area for adequate clearance.
>>
>> I don't recall anyone else having this problem on the list, but
>> given the severity of the potential consequences this requires
>> another look. I am looking for a first flight around New
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
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