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takeoff, landing, taxiing and crosswind technique

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Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject: takeoff, landing, taxiing and crosswind technique

On Thu, January 1, 2009 3:39 pm, Noel Loveys wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Just wondering about this...  When I was trained to fly C-172 I was trained

 to hold attitudes that were similar to conventional gear just before

 touchdown.


	


You probably remember the reasons for this too. The idea is that you want to minimize

the time in transition between flying control and rolling control so actual touchdown

should be right at or slightly below stall speed. The contact will dissipate some of

the kinetic energy and shorten the time before effective wheel braking can occur. I

was taught that even touching the tail skid on my Cherokee was fine and that is a

pretty nose high attitude.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I can say without any fear of contradiction that my first

 landings were not the best in the world...  The C-172 seemed to forgive the

 fact I was intent on landing sideways.  With a little practice I stopped

 sliding around like a drunken sailor.


	


Of course, the wing low into the wind and cross control to keep it lined up with the

centerline is the preferred method for either tricycle or conventional gear. You don't

master this technique right at the beginning so your initial instruction intentionally

avoids much of a crosswind.



When I got instruction in a tail dragger, the instructor made the comment that people

with only tricycle gear experience didn't tend to use the rudder as much as is

necessary with a tail dragger. So, since I had plenty of flying time, the instructor

said we are going to concentrate on the differences since once in flight there isn't

much difference at all. The first thing that he said was necessary was to be cognizant

of the apparent wind at all times and the proper stick position should come

automatically to you. So here's the practice that I did for more than an hour until it

was a habit. We taxied to the run up area adjacent to the runway. It had a nice big

compose rose painted there which you could use to adjust your compass. He said we were

going to make turns right in the middle of that big compass rose as tightly as

possible and we were going to do first left 360's then right 360's then repeat the

procedure noting that as you make a 360 deg turn on the ground the stick goes through

a figure 8 pattern. With nose into the wind, the stick is straight back and with a

direct tailwind the stick is all the way forward. In a direct crosswind the stick is

centered. For a left quartering tailwind, the stick is forward and to the left; for

right quartering tailwind, the stick is forward to the right. For a left quartering

headwind, the stick is back and to the left; for a right quartering headwind the stick

is back and to the right. I practiced and practiced until I could make a 360 turn

while moving the stick in a figure 8 both clockwise and counter clockwise.



After I had that down pretty well, he had me taxi to various points on the field using

both the taxiways and the runway and constantly correcting me if I had the stick not

in the correct part of the figure 8. After that, take-offs, flying and landing were a

natural thing in a tail dragger.



The lesson is that if you always keep the stick in the correct part of the figure 8

you'll greatly reduce your chances of a ground loop while taxiing.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Take offs were another quintal of fish..  My first take offs were basically

 firewall the C and slowly pull back until I left the ground.


	


Then after a few times you learn that keeping the stick neutral until you reach

liftoff speed, really shortens the take off roll.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Now the question...  Where do most ground loops occur in both tricycle and

 conventional gear?  It is easy to see how a tricycle stays straighter on

 touchdown than a conventional... but it is also easy to see how a tricycle

 gear may not handle downwind as well as a conventional.  Do the tricycle

 gear handle crosswind taxis better?


	


If you don't use the rudder as you should, then a tricycle has substantially more

resistance to yaw. But it the stick is in the correct position (figure , and you

keep it straight with your feet, the difference is reduced. You can provide further

control with steering brakes and a little throttle to put some wash on the rudder.



I've seen two messed up ground loop type accidents both in a pretty gusty crosswind.

The first one was tricycle gear and it wasn't using enough wing low on the touchdown

and also bounced. It really got out of alignment and the downwind wing touched the

pavement and it spun around and folded the nose gear under. The other sort of ground

loop I saw occurred in a tail dragger on takeoff. Went airborn a little too soon,

bounced and turned completely 90 deg to the runway and jammed the low wing into the

sod.



 	  Quote: 	
		   My interest in this is just slightly academic as I fly floats and in this

 country there is no endorsement for conventional gear.  If I were to try the

 black doughnut thingies (wheels)though I would get some instruction on them.


	


My opinion is that your float operations have probably prepared you more for

conventional gear than just tricycle operations.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

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_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: takeoff, landing, taxiing and crosswind technique

Thanks for the input Paul.   Even with the few hours I have under my belt there are still things I learn about flying almost every day.



While doing practices for soft field take offs in the C the instructor wanted me to start the run with the nosewheel off the ground but not strike the tail of the plane.  he had me do several practices of taxiing back to the hangar without letting the nosewheel touch the ground.  As I remember it, it was like nailing jelly to a tree.  Of course those exercises were only done in dead calm conditions.



Too bad the 'Fox won't take both our weight OI'd love to let him see what a manouverable plane is like.  Especially one that climbs like the Fox, even on floats.



I had a momentary difficulty in imagining the figure 8 you mentioned but I was visualizing the 8 on its side like an infinity symbol.  Needless to say that didn't work.



Noel

--- On Thu, 1/1/09, Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com> wrote:

From: Paul Franz - Merlin GT <paul(at)eucleides.com>

Subject: RE: takeoff, landing, taxiing and crosswind technique

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Received: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 11:29 PM




<paul(at)eucleides.com>



On Thu, January 1, 2009 3:39 pm, Noel Loveys wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Just wondering about this...  When I was trained to fly C-172 I was

trained
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   to hold attitudes that were similar to conventional gear just before

 touchdown.


	


You probably remember the reasons for this too. The idea is that you want to

minimize

the time in transition between flying control and rolling control so actual

touchdown

should be right at or slightly below stall speed. The contact will dissipate

some of

the kinetic energy and shorten the time before effective wheel braking can

occur. I

was taught that even touching the tail skid on my Cherokee was fine and that is

a

pretty nose high attitude.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I can say without any fear of contradiction that my first

 landings were not the best in the world...  The C-172 seemed to forgive

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   fact I was intent on landing sideways.  With a little practice I stopped

 sliding around like a drunken sailor.


	


Of course, the wing low into the wind and cross control to keep it lined up

with the

centerline is the preferred method for either tricycle or conventional gear

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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