 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bhassel
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 36
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Flight Performance |
 |
|
I’m wondering what the true flight performance is on the Lightning. What’s the max rpm’s you can cruise at for extended periods of time? I assume that the 170mph top cruise speed is max rpm, so only for a limited time?
The Lightning’s pluses for me are it’s looks (always important and worth at least 5 knots), the level of completion of the kit (and therefore the ability to get it built in a reasonable amount of time), composite construction and the Jabiru engine.
Thanks in advance. I live in the southwest (Santa Fe, NM) and cross country performance is very important.
Bob Hassel
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Dick
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
Hi Bob
I live in Colorado and fly my lightning mostly at 6 to 12 k feet. I cruse at 145 to 150mph at 2850 or so rpm. I chose a climb prop and don't fly wide open throttle much except during climb. It is still a great airplane
Dick Cleavinger
lightning #42
n213rc
n213rc(at)gmail.com (n213rc(at)gmail.com)
On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Bob Hassel <bob(at)cozyworld.net (bob(at)cozyworld.net)> wrote:
[quote]
I'm wondering what the true flight performance is on the Lightning. What's the max rpm's you can cruise at for extended periods of time? I assume that the 170mph top cruise speed is max rpm, so only for a limited time?
The Lightning's pluses for me are it's looks (always important and worth at least 5 knots), the level of completion of the kit (and therefore the ability to get it built in a reasonable amount of time), composite construction and the Jabiru engine.
Thanks in advance. I live in the southwest (Santa Fe, NM) and cross country performance is very important.
Bob Hassel
[b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
Bob C
Welcome to the board. A good deal of your performance will come from a clean and straight build. Paying attention to detail can mean a knot here and there. Some people do not care and would much rather loose a few knots and get in the air quicker. That is fine too. 170mph is about what I would call the "high cruise". You can run at a continuous 2950 RPM and use a little more fuel C around 6.5gph I think was what I came up with. 2850 would be a normal cruise and you should come in at about 160mph and about 5-5.5 gph fuel burn. Maximum RPM will depend on many things such as speed C air density C actual engine horsepower C the prop chosen C the pitch of the prop C etc. Ultimately C it would be nice to have it set where you get 3300 RPM at 59 degrees F. at sea level. If somebody would just come out with a turbocharged version of a Jabiru I have no doubt the TAS would be well over 200mph at 20k + feet. I have unfortunately not flown the latest version of the Lightning which offers some improved ride comfort. I have previously flown a Lightning out west to Tucson. We landed in Carlsbad C NM on the way. Carlsbad is 4 C000+ field elevation if I remember correctly and it was 105 degrees and we were loaded down max weight and we still would get off the ground in 2 C000 feet. Brian W.
From: bob(at)cozyworld.net
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Lightning-List: Flight Performance
Date: Wed C 31 Dec 2008 18:58:47 -0700
.ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} .ExternalClass a:link C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle17 {font-family:Arial;color:windowtext;} (at)page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}
I’m wondering what the true flight performance is on the Lightning. What’s the max rpm’s you can cruise at for extended periods of time? I assume that the 170mph top cruise speed is max rpm C so only for a limited time?
The Lightning’s pluses for me are it’s looks (always important and worth at least 5 knots) C the level of completion of the kit (and therefore the ability to get it built in a reasonable amount of time) C composite construction and the Jabiru engine.
Thanks in advance. I live in the southwest (Santa Fe C NM) and cross country performance is very important.
Bob Hassel
| Quote: |
ww.matronics.com/contribution
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
ronics.com
|
It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pennington(at)q.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:29 am Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Good morning Bob
I hope I can answer your questions. As of today, I now have the required 40 hours on my Lightning. I wouldn't trade it for any other aircraft I've flown. Here is the following test data:
Data:
Surface temp: 50 degrees
Altimeter: 30.14
Ramp Weight: 1203 lbs. (Empty weight: 881 lbs., Pilot only: 190 lbs., full fuel: 132 lbs.)
Center of Gravity: 31.54"
Vx: 85 mph +/-
Vy: 95 mph +/-
Vs: 44 mph (Clean stall, on my plane, has a gentle, straight ahead break, if the ball is centered, and
recovery is easy with standard pilot reactions)
Vso: 38 mph ( Dirty stall, 30 degrees of flap, breaks sharply with a left wing drop. It requires that you pay
attention and use the rudder)
Best Glide: 80 mph +/-
Please note that this data is at 1203 lbs. under the above noted conditions. Different loads and atmospheric conditions will change the numbers slightly. With the Sensenich two blade prop and at max throttle, my engine will turn approx. 3000 rpm. Not quite the max rated rpm for the engine, but that is OK with me. The max True Air Speed is not 175 mph but is still respectable.
Have a great day.
Gary Penningotn
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rimorbod
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Flight Performance |
|
|
Did you hear about using the retractable gear in lighning? It should
significantly increase the cruise speed of the aicraft. How do you think - is it
possible?
Beside, turbocharged diesel engines with constant speed propeller can be used such as,: http://ppdgemini.com/
or http://dieselair.com/2008/12/introducing-cmd-gf56-diesel-engine-for.html.
BR
Roman
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
Last edited by rimorbod on Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:21 am Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
I think that if we were talking most aircraft manufacturers 50 years ago that it would be worth coming up with a retractable landing gear variant C however C with the newer technologies and aerodynamic understanding I think that you are getting a deminishing return there. Cirrus C Diamond C and the Cessna 350 & 400 (formerly Columbia) discovered that with a sleek airframe and good wheel pants that you only would get an additional knot or two. You're adding a lot of weight and complexity when you put in retractable gear. There's also the issue of insurance being much more for a retract. I think that Arion had a distinct vision and I don't think they'll ever plan on doing a retract. Maybe one day in the distant future they'll redesign the basic airframe to accomodate the 8 cylinder 180hp version though C that'd be a hoot! Unfortunately it'd require a signifigant redesign to get the CG right with the heavier engine. Brian W.
[quote] _=
It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now.
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bob(at)hassel-usa.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
Thanks everyone for your responses and kindness to a newbie!
I was thinking of the 170/180 hp Jabiru (but couldn’t find any specs on it on the Jabiru us web site but did on the au web site. The us web site says it will be made available again in 2008. What’s up with that?
You’re right it would probably take more than a shortened motor mount and battery in the tail…but the extra performance – wow!
Bob
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Whittingham
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:21 AM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Flight Performance
I think that if we were talking most aircraft manufacturers 50 years ago that it would be worth coming up with a retractable landing gear variant, however, with the newer technologies and aerodynamic understanding I think that you are getting a deminishing return there. Cirrus, Diamond, and the Cessna 350 & 400 (formerly Columbia) discovered that with a sleek airframe and good wheel pants that you only would get an additional knot or two. You're adding a lot of weight and complexity when you put in retractable gear. There's also the issue of insurance being much more for a retract. I think that Arion had a distinct vision and I don't think they'll ever plan on doing a retract. Maybe one day in the distant future they'll redesign the basic airframe to accomodate the 8 cylinder 180hp version though, that'd be a hoot! Unfortunately it'd require a signifigant redesign to get the CG right with the heavier engine. Brian W.
> Subject: Re: Flight Performance
> From: mcpc(at)wp.pl
> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 07:13:19 -0800
> To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
>
> --> Lightning-List message posted by: "rimorbod" <mcpc(at)wp.pl>
>
> Did you hear about using the retractable gear in lighning? It should
> significantly increase the cruise speed of the aicraft. How do you think - is it
> possible?
> Beside, turbocharged diesel engines can be used such as,: http://ppdgemini.com/
> or http://dieselair.com/2008/12/introducing-cmd-gf56-diesel-engine-for.html.
>
> BR
> Roman
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222175#222175
>
>
>
>
>
>
&=====================
> _=
>
>
>
It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
01234567890123
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rimorbod
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 8
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
Hi Brian
I don't agree with you! Please see the specification of the latest
construction - typies velocity
(http://www.velocityaircraft.com/airplane-specifications.html) or Lancair
(www.lancair.com). Lancair is mentioned by you non certified Cessna 350 & 400.
Average profit of the cruise speed is 10%! They are also very light
installations of the retratractable gear - for example, this one, which are
installed in Fascination aircraft (http://www.uljih.cz/celanews.php?ID=74),
where the take-off weight is 450KG! In the case of Lightning, estimate profit
would be about 15-20mph, no les.
BR
Roman
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vettin74(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:48 pm Post subject: Flight Performance |
|
|
Normal cruise of 150mph is very easy for the lightning (at) 2850 or so. At 8 to 10k you can achieve 170TAS (at)around 3000rpm and about 6 gph with the hydraulic lifter engine.
Nick
--- On Wed, 12/31/08, Bob Hassel <bob(at)cozyworld.net> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Bob Hassel <bob(at)cozyworld.net>
Subject: Flight Performance
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 7:58 PM
I¢m wondering what the true flight performance is on the Lightning. What¢s the max rpm¢s you can cruise at for extended periods of time? I assume that the 170mph top cruise speed is max rpm, so only for a limited time?
The Lightning¢s pluses for me are it¢s looks (always important and worth at least 5 knots), the level of completion of the kit (and therefore the ability to get it built in a reasonable amount of time), composite construction and the Jabiru engine.
Thanks in advance. I live in the southwest ( Santa Fe , NM ) and cross country performance is very important.
Bob Hassel
| Quote: |
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Lightning-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
