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Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

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nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

It's the "new guy" again,



In the middle of measuring out the cutouts for the aileron trim tab.  There are no directions to go by, just the plans for the option.  Having assembled the elevator trim tab, is the aileron install basically the same operation?



Requesting any lessons learned out there, I read the past posts about  the 25deg up and down issue.  Any others?



Best Regards,

Anthony

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

sdthatcher

Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 91
Location: Port Saint Lucie

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

Hi Anthony,



From another ZenVair owner, I felt it was about the same procedure for the aileron as the elevator. Gus Warren said that I should place a stiffener adjacent to the motor to keep the aileron from flexing, but it's much easier to do when building than after it's built.



Gus, if you're on the list, can you elaborate? 

 



 	  nosky2high wrote: 	
		  It's the "new guy" again,



In the middle of measuring out the cutouts for the aileron trim tab.  There are no directions to go by, just the plans for the option.  Having assembled the elevator trim tab, is the aileron install basically the same operation?



Requesting any lessons learned out there, I read the past posts about  the 25deg up and down issue.  Any others?



Best Regards,

Anthony

_________________
Scott Thatcher, Port Saint Lucie, FL
601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
N601EL, EAA203 140 hours and not flying currently.

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

The plans don't appear to be completely accurate, if you cut out the access panel hole as per the plans dimensions the cover plate will extend over the aileron spar bottom edge.  I just shifted the access hole farther away from the spar by about 10mm farther than the plans called for.  Too chicken to cut the metal though until I'm sure.



Regarding the additional angle to support the trim motor, I'm not picturing the placement, requesting some further guidance on that.  Will hold off all the cutting until I can get clarification.



On to the wings.



Anthony

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

Anthony



You are right about the plans. The access hole is shown too close to the 

front edge of the aileron. If you put it there, there are conflicts, but I 

cannot recall the details. Your 10-mm sounds about right. I wouldn't shift 

the servo, just the access hole.



Regarding the stiffeners, Mirko suggested them a while back. My 

understanding is for something like I've shown in the attached sketch, 

probably attached with A4's. The flanges of the angles fit underneath the 

servo. I plan to retrofit stiffeners eventually. I will probably cut the 

web on the angles (i.e., the vertical side) to 1/2 or 1/3 the standard 

width to lighten them. I believe that would be adequate.



Terry



At 02:35 PM 1/3/2009 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  The plans don't appear to be completely accurate, if you cut out the 

access panel hole as per the plans dimensions the cover plate will extend 

over the aileron spar bottom edge.  I just shifted the access hole farther 

away from the spar by about 10mm farther than the plans called for.  Too 

chicken to cut the metal though until I'm sure.



Regarding the additional angle to support the trim motor, I'm not 

picturing the placement, requesting some further guidance on that.  Will 

hold off all the cutting until I can get clarification.



On to the wings.



Anthony



--------

Anthony Hanson


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons 

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

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_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

Anthony,

 

 Be aware that there are left hand and right hand servos.  The ones that ZAC furnishes doesn't always agree with the drawings.  This can be very confusing since you are doing the mounting layout upside down.  Mine were opposite hand from what was shown on the drawings and I didn't figure it out until I had cut the access hole.  I had to cut an oversize hole and make a larger cover plate.

 

 Jay in Dallas

 

   

 

   

 

 --

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

Looks like I'm going to start over from the Tab cutout measurements, then from the center measure the rod distance to get the location of the servo.  From there locate the L angle braces, then once the servo is set, cut the access panel in the bottom.



Question for the long term maintainers out there, is there a "best" side of the servo to put the access hole?  over the clevis, over the wires, or just basically centered over the servo itself?  seems that perhaps it would be advantageous to cheat the access over the side of the clevis and the wiring for easier clevis adjustments and any wiring issues.



Had a big bummer today, only got one 12' rear spar, how in the h&^K did they forget that?  I inventoried everything else upon delivery focusing on the smaller parts mainly and just couldn't imagine that they'd forget the second rear spar so I didn't cut the packing paper off until today.



Any issues with ZAC on getting parts they failed to ship?



Blue Skies,

Anthony

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

 	  nosky2high wrote: 	
		  It's the "new guy" again,



In the middle of measuring out the cutouts for the aileron trim tab.  There are no directions to go by, just the plans for the option.  Having assembled the elevator trim tab, is the aileron install basically the same operation?



Requesting any lessons learned out there, I read the past posts about  the 25deg up and down issue.  Any others?



Best Regards,

Anthony 	




Capt'nPurple,



I don't know if this helps, but here is what I did when I scratch built mine.



http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=1683&log=19488&row=407

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

Iberplanes

Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:39 am Post subject: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

Hello Anthony,. 



I´m in the same part as you are, I guess you´re right,  installation should be like the aileron trim tab. I´ve bought an Olpha knife and I expect to cut the aluminum as shown on the homebuilthelp videos.

 



Bye, 

Alberto Martin

www.iberplanes.es

Igualada - Barcelona - Spain



----------------------------------------------

Zodiac 601 XL Builder

Serial: 6-7011

 

Tail Kit: Finished

Wings: Not Started

Fuselage: Ordered

Engine: Jabiru 3300

  [quote][b]

_________________
Alberto Martin
601 XL - Jabiru 3300
http://www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

See these attached photos of the top and bottom aileron skin measurements for the trim tab and motor.



The plans call for 145mm from edge of trim tab cut out to the bottom row of holes in the servo, by my measurements 135mm is the better measurement due to interference with the aileron spar flange.  Any others out there experiencing the same issue?  I love pre-punched skins just wish they'd pre-punched out the trim tab like they do in the elevator.  



higher resolution photos available here;  



http://picasaweb.google.com/nosky2high/WingKitFlapsAilerons?feat=directlink 



if the attached downsized photos don't explain the situation well enough.  



phone call to ZAC tomorrow.



Anthony

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_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

Anthony,



Try transferring the flange line to the outside of the skin after you have the access hole cut.  I think the servo needs to be close but not touching the flange, perhaps .5mm clearance.



Make sure you have a straight line from the servo to the trim tab horn and it will work out.



The wings aren't here otherwise I would give you some dimensions.

dvanlanen

Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Madison, WI

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:42 am Post subject: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

I had the same experience.  It appears that the plans are incorrect.  When I

first asked ZAC about it, they suggested overlapping the spar flange with

the servo, which I didn't think was a good idea, so I asked if I could move

the servo rearward and they said that would work just fine.  I moved the

servo rearward until I had about 2mm to 3mm of clearnce from the aileron

spar flange, and then went from there.



Regards,

Dave Van Lanen

601XL - tail done, flaps done, finishing ailerons



Time: 02:29:45 PM PST US

Subject: Re: Aileron Trim Tab Lessons Learned Request

From: "nosky2high" <nosky2high(at)yahoo.com>

See these attached photos of the top and bottom aileron skin measurements

for the

trim tab and motor.



The plans call for 145mm from edge of trim tab cut out to the bottom row of

holes

in the servo, by my measurements 135mm is the better measurement due to

interference

with the aileron spar flange.  Any others out there experiencing the

same issue?  I love pre-punched skins just wish they'd pre-punched out the

trim

tab like they do in the elevator.  



higher resolution photos available here;  



http://picasaweb.google.com/nosky2high/WingKitFlapsAilerons?feat=directlink 



if the attached downsized photos don't explain the situation well enough.  



phone call to ZAC tomorrow.



Anthony

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