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Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

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nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:38 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Happy New Year Everyone,



Has anyone out there installed the aileron gussets (on the two outboard most ribs)into the 650 ailerons?  The assembly guide doesn't show them yet they are only on the plans.



Any guidance or advice on the best method of assembly would be appreciated.



Thanks

Anthony

Ft Bragg, NC

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

my error to previous post, gussets go on two inboard ribs

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Ok, Here's what looks like the best solution, the triangle shaped gusset goes under the inboard most rib flange as well as under the the aileron spar flange, the second gusset goes under the Aileron spar flange centered on top of the second rib.  I'm lost without some destructions, i mean instructions 



Any thoughts?  Thanks in Advance.



Anthony

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

here's some gusset pics for reference, note that the inboard triangle gusset's long edge is oriented along the top of the inboard rib flange.

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_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Anthony



Thank you for the photos. It's good to see what the gussets look like.



I would like to suggest that you use the free image resizer from Microsoft 

on photos that you upload to Matronics or attach to your posts:



http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/Install/2/WXP/EN-US/ImageResizerPowertoySetup.exe



The large size will reduce the files size by about an 10x, with very little 

degradation of image quality. It makes it easier for those of us in the 

hinterlands with slow Internet links to download the photos.



Terry



do not archive

At 08:18 AM 1/1/2009 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  here's some gusset pics for reference, note that the inboard triangle 

gusset's long edge is oriented along the top of the inboard rib flange.



--------

Anthony Hanson


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons 

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

All,



Excuse the file size of the photos, will adjust in the future.



My 650 is equipped with the hinge-less ailerons and my current opinion is to follow the drawings guidance and that they are a good precaution regardless of hinge type.  I just finished assembly of the right aileron, starting on the left after this post.



Regards,

Anthony



PS: Reminder I'm building from 650 component kits, tail 95%, flaps done, ailerons in progress, corvair engine test ran complete.

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

nosky2high

Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Sabrina,



Good call, and the most conservative approach.  Your logic is sound.  Will hold off on the rivets until confirmation with ZAC.  I'm getting high on self etching primer anyway:-)



You veteran builders out there, thanks in advance, this new guy is a pilot only(Prior Piper Cherokee owner, and currently Army Kiowa Warrior Pilot) and am still learning the engineering know-how that so many of you exhibit.

I'm a follow the plans/instructions, getter done kind of guy.  Appreciate this gotcha advice and the future guidance to come.  



Anthony

_________________
Anthony Hanson
Ft.Bragg, NC
Kiowa Warrior Pilot
Building ZenVair650 from Nov'08 ZAC 650 kit, tail 95%, Flaps Done, Working on Ailerons, Engine test ran.

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

All;

the control locks in the picture  are mine, and they work well.  As for the Gussett, just put them under the hingless sheet metal on all of the aileron rib points,  should be fine.  You really dont need them if the plane is kept well.  I did not have issues with my aileron eccept it was hit last night by a 9mm bullet.  go figure!   right in the corner and went through the wing entirely.   I spoke to the Airport guys and they said mine was not the only one and last year on new years,  a cheetah  was shot while landing.  Welcome to the Jungle.



Juan



--

A.F.RUPP(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Sabrina and Nathan,

Nathan if you do as your picture shows with the gusset under the "spar cap" and on top of the rib flange stress points are a non-issue. The CH drawing shows a flex skin aileron and the advice is to install on the 601. I think it is a worthwhile addition. I installed them on the external skin on my 601.

As far as the control cables go I believe the KR has pulleys not fairleads. That makes cable tension easier to set and in straight lines. There is no way an aircraft should go through an annual without a dtailed inspection of the control cables including a tension check, binding, jumping a pulley, fraying and etc. I don't know of an A&P who would skip that.

Al Rupp

An A&P for many years.

601XL



-------------- Original message from "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com>: -------------- 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 The problem is that your flex hinge was tested extensively by CH without the gussets. 

 The gussets will create ripples/stress points along the attach line between the flex hinge portion of the aileron skin and the spar portion of the aileron skin. The .016 skin will be raised by .025 and then settle back down. The key to a  flex hinge is the smoothness of the hinge.  I would contact Zenith and ask them if the flex hinge aileron with gusset  drawing is correct and/or tested.

dvanlanen

Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Madison, WI

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Did I miss something?  Is there some sort of bulletin recommending this change for the 601XL?  I looked on the Zenith website and could not find anything, and I have the latest set of 601XL plans which do not show these gussets.  

Thanks,  

Dave Van Lanen 

  

Time: 11:00:22 AM PST US  

Subject: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions  

From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris(at)msn.com> 

  

Anthony,  

 	  Quote: 	
		  From your photos it looks like you have flex hinge ailerons not piano hinge ailerons,  

is this true?    
	


Attached is the Zenith drawing for the installation of the gussets.   Does it match  

your drawings?    

I would contact Zenith before installing the gussets on a flex hinge.  It was the  

piano hinge aileron design that was having the problems talked about in the  

paragraph above the drawings but the drawing shows a flex hinge installation.  

This could be a defensive move by Zenith.  They can always point to the bulletin  

and say "See the drawing" this is what we recommended to be installed on all  

601XL, and the service bulletin shows flex hinged ailerons.  I don't know. 

 

     [quote][b]

rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

These changes are on the 650 plans.  People are talking about back

fitting to the 601.  Same wing, just a couple of different details.



Ron



------

Jon(at)joncroke.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

Dave,

  

 The "bulletins" are published for download at www.zenair.org

  

 Also, they will be included in the next issue of  the zenair newsletter (hardcopy being mailed in 2 weeks)  along with some  great DVD videos of more builders/pilots!  Everybody: keep em coming!   We all love to watch!

  

 Jon

 editor

  

 [quote]   ---

rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

The 650 plans are more-or-less like the 601 plans.  The drawings show  

the hingeless version, with the hinged in the back on an "options" page.

Gussets are shown on both pages.  The hingeless are attached to the  

rear spar with A5/pitch 40 with A5/pitch 20 at the inboard end.



I'd have to scan the drawings to post an image.  Since Jon is going to  

include them in the news letter, hopefully folks can wait.



My ailerons have have been build for months.  I don't think I'll be  

drilling out the rivets to add the gussets.  Also, someone mentioned a  

concern about the thickness of the gusset offsetting the skin (true  

enough) but this is not addressed in the drawings, so presumably it's  

not considered a problem.



Ron



On Jan 2, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sabrina wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Ron,



 Do the 650 plans show the gussets on both the PH and flex hinge  

 ailerons?



 Could you post the PH aileron gusset drawing?



 Did Zenith push any particular aileron type when you purchased your  

 kit/plans?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 22425#222425

rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions

On Jan 2, 2009, at 9:43 PM, Sabrina wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Ron,



 Zenith has not issued a bulletin showing the PH aileron gussets,  

 just the flex hinge, so there is nothing more for Jon to post at  

 this time.  If you have time, please scan the particular PH drawing  

 with the gussets attached, no need for all the other drawings on the  

 plans page.



 Do you have PH or flex hinge ailerons?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 22480#222480

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