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Bubble doors

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frank(at)kusserow-online.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Dear All,

 last November I bought D-EJWD, a Europa Classic  Mono with Rotax 912 UL.

 Since the headroom is definately not sufficient  with cussions installed just thick enough for a comfortable seating position  (for max. 2 hour-flights) - I am looking for those bubble doors I have seen on  few UK-pictures on europaowners.org.

 Where are they from? Did aerodynamics change with  installation? Are there any other options of getting more headroom  easily?

  

 Thanks for a hint or two.

  

 Regards,

  

 Frank Kusserow

Europa Classic Mono

 Essen/Germany

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kheindl(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

 

 Try using a cushion out of memory foam. You must be very tall.

  

 Karl

 





  From: frank(at)kusserow-online.com

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bubble doors

Date: Sun C 4 Jan 2009 00:11:46 +0100



    Dear All C

 last November I bought D-EJWD C a Europa Classic Mono with Rotax 912 UL.

 Since the headroom is definately not sufficient with cussions installed just thick enough for a comfortable seating position (for max. 2 hour-flights) - I am looking for those bubble doors I have seen on few UK-pictures on europaowners.org.

 Where are they from? Did aerodynamics change with installation? Are there any other options of getting more headroom easily?

  

 Thanks for a hint or two.

  

 Regards C

  

 Frank Kusserow

Europa Classic Mono

 Essen/Germany

  

  [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:31 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Frank,



They were available from the factory as an option at one time.  I don't know if they still are.  Check with them.

Here in the States, the plexi was provided by LP Aero Plastics, Inc.  That's where I had to go for my windows when Europa when bankrupt.  I don't know if they would be your first choice as the shipping would probably be expensive.  But if you can't find them anywhere else contact:

George Mesiarik

c/o LP Aero Plastics, Inc.

1086 Boquet Road

Jeannette, PA  15644-4707

USA

Phone

Main: 1-800-9LP AERO

Direct:  1-724-744-4448

e-mail: george(at)lpaero.com (george(at)lpaero.com)

Web:  http://www.lpaero.com/

Best regards,

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(99.999% done) Essentially complete.  Running Tests & Final Inspections.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117

 



On Jan 3, 2009, at 17:11, Frank Kusserow wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Dear All,

last November I bought D-EJWD, a Europa Classic Mono with Rotax 912 UL.

Since the headroom is definately not sufficient with cussions installed just thick enough for a comfortable seating position (for max. 2 hour-flights) - I am looking for those bubble doors I have seen on few UK-pictures on europaowners.org.

Where are they from? Did aerodynamics change with installation? Are there any other options of getting more headroom easily?

 

Thanks for a hint or two.

 

Regards,

 

Frank Kusserow

Europa Classic Mono

Essen/Germany

 <1.jpg>

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

If you  are totally commited to getting the extra head room with the bubble door  "glass"

 you  might try taking the doors off and gradually and carefully heating the  offending area with the door upside

 down  and allow it to sag under its own weight. then let it cool and replace the  doors 

 Of  course this approach would only give you an extra 20 to 30mm. This  way if you are happy with the

 result  it has cost you very little, and if you wreck the "glass" then you can still go  ahead and replace it

 as you  first intended.

  

 craig 

 [quote]   --

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:08 am Post subject: Bubble doors

craig bastin wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you are totally commited to getting the extra head room with the 

 bubble door "glass"

 you might try taking the doors off and gradually and carefully heating 

 the offending area with the door upside

 down and allow it to sag under its own weight. then let it cool and 

 replace the doors 

 Of course this approach would only give you an extra 20 to 30mm. This 

 way if you are happy with the

 result it has cost you very little, and if you wreck the "glass" then 

 you can still go ahead and replace it

 as you first intended.

  

 craig

You will wreck the Plexi if you do that. It reverts to it's "memory 
	


state" when heated above 130C, ie flat but bent. It will shrink

Graham

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: Bubble doors

I have done similar before and not had any issues, perhaps i was just

lucky.



--

frank(at)kusserow-online.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Dear All,



thanks for the Ideas. I cut into the seat base today and found an inch or so 

of styrofoam which I will remove before I get to the windows (because it 

might still be not be enough headroom). I am 185 cm (73 inches) tall and up 

to now I barely fit into the cockpit. Is that normal in the "Classic"?



Regards from Germany,

Frank

---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Frank,



There must be more foam or other packing in that seat area or  

exceptionally thick seat cushions.  I am 6 ft (72 in, 183 cm) tall and  

I do not have any trouble fitting in my XS with standard Europa seat  

cushions.  I still have, at a minimum, another 2 in (5 cm) of head  

space.



Work more with those cushions before you go to the trouble of  

replacing the doors/windows.



Check six,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(99.999% done) Essentially complete.  Running Tests & Final Inspections.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



On Jan 4, 2009, at 15:06, Frank Kusserow wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Dear All,



 thanks for the Ideas. I cut into the seat base today and found an  

 inch or so of styrofoam which I will remove before I get to the  

 windows (because it might still be not be enough headroom). I am 185  

 cm (73 inches) tall and up to now I barely fit into the cockpit. Is  

 that normal in the "Classic"?



 Regards from Germany,

 Frank

frank(at)kusserow-online.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Thanks Bob for the hint - I will remove the seat base first of course.

Tell us when your baby has seen the air first time.



Regards,

Frank



---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:03 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Frank,



You are quite welcome.



You can be sure that I will shout to the world when my baby has made  

its first flight!



Best regards,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(99.999% done) Essentially complete.  Running Tests & Final Inspections.

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117



On Jan 4, 2009, at 15:48, Frank Kusserow wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Thanks Bob for the hint - I will remove the seat base first of course.

 Tell us when your baby has seen the air first time.



 Regards,

 Frank

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:33 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frank,

 Contact Europa in the UK and we can arrange the bubble glass.  I  installed it in my first Europa.  The glass is from LP Aero in the  US.  Cost was slightly higher than the original glass, but for you  in Europe, shipping will be nearly as expensive.  There is no speed  penalty to speak of and no turbulence.  I enjoyed the ability to look back  farther and have another inch of headroom with my too thick cushions  installed.

  

 I now have a tri-gear Classic with original gold glass.  I am 70  inches tall and it sounds like you have a high sitting height.  Normally,  leg room is a problem in the classic for folks of your height.  Do follow  the suggestions offered by the others such as:  First, look to cut down the  blue foam under the cushion flat with the torque tube cover running down the  center of the seat floor.  Then, remove the rear cushion and see how the  headroom is.  You can gain a lot of comfort by leaning back and making the  back cushion thinner.  My lower cushion is only 1.5 inches of foam  hollowed out in the area where I sit to about 1 inch.  How I do the  hollowing out is open the lower cushion and carve out some of the foam from  the bottom of the foam pad until I get my butt where it needs to be and still  have adequate tailbone cushion.  Be sure to leave the upper part of  the foam cushion intact, so when you get out of the plane, the cushion  springs back to shape.  My back cushion is 1 inch at my back and to the top  of the headrest.  Where the seat back area goes vertical to the floor near  the pins my cushion fills the void and bows out to fill the gap in my back and  give lumbar support.  This gives me nearly 2 inches before my head hits the  glass, if I lean a little right, nearly 4 inches of head  room.  Finally, a headset with the thinnest pad is a must for a guy as  tall as you.

  

 Enjoy your plane.

 Bud Yerly,

 Custom Flight Creations,

 US Europa Dealer

  

 [quote]   ---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Frank Kusserow wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <frank(at)kusserow-online.com>



 Dear All,



 thanks for the Ideas. I cut into the seat base today and found an inch 

 or so of styrofoam which I will remove before I get to the windows 

 (because it might still be not be enough headroom). I am 185 cm (73 

 inches) tall and up to now I barely fit into the cockpit. Is that 

 normal in the "Classic"?



 Regards from Germany,

 Frank 

Frank
	


you might try sitting on a small bean bag, shuffle until it's 

comfortable then have a look at the shape you need. The trick is to 

achieve even seat pressure on the body. Racing cars fill a bag with pour 

in place foam and let it set round the body. Has to be the right amount 

though.

The problem is sometimes length of upper torso. Body length varies a 

lot, You can increase space by moving the buttocks forwards, which will 

raise the knees.

I did modify one Europa for a guy who was 77in tall.

Graham

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:39 am Post subject: Bubble doors

Frank,



 I suggest you also try to put more cushion on the  lower back of the seat to get a more reclined position. The upper portion of the  seat back should be as thin as possible. Moving your bottom forward will  increase your head clearance. However this will also reduce your leg  room.

 Regards

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>Work more with those  cushions before you go to the trouble of  

replacing the  doors/windows.<<<<
	


    [quote][b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: Bubble doors

Remi Guerner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Frank,

 I suggest you also try to put more cushion on the lower back of the 

 seat to get a more reclined position. The upper portion of the seat 

 back should be as thin as possible. Moving your bottom forward will 

 increase your head clearance. However this will also reduce your leg room.

 Regards

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL

Frank
	


If you have long body/short legs this will work well. I cut out the 

thigh supports and rebuilt them shaped to fit buttocks. Very comfortable 

and only needs thin cushion, (but bean bag is the best, you can change 

position and still have even pressure)

Graham

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Bubble doors

One comment on tempur foam.  We had it in both our  seat bottoms and the back, where the lumbar support is.  On longer trips,  we both had some back pain.  We discovered that the carefully placed lumbar  support was going away because the tempur foam was relaxing over time (due to  body heat?).  We replaced the tempur foam at the seat back with regular  upholstery foam, which solved the problem.  Of course, we left the tempur  foam in the seat bottom to provide the crash protection it  provides.

  

 regards,

 Terry Seaver

  



   From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich  Trombley

Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:52 AM

To:  europa-list-digest(at)matronics.com

Subject: Bubble  doors

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  Frank,



I concur with Karl, try memory foam.  Additionally, I found the design of the seat bottom 

and seat back to be critically important if you are to fly more than a couple of hours at 

a time.  I am 6'1" (186cm)and am able to fly 4 hour legs without complaint.  The key 

for me was to have a semi-reclined seating position with good lumbar support.  This is 

achieved by having the seat back follow the angle of the head rest (rather than have it 

flush vertically against the cockpit module.  This puts the bottom of the seat back 

cushion around 4" or so from the back of the cockpit module.  The seat bottom is 

made from tempur foam utilizing two 1" thick plys of foam (one blue and one green).  

I have posted a few pictures on the builder forum.



Regards,



Erich Trombley

N28ET Classic Mono 914

Try using a cushion out of memory foam. You must be very tall.



Karl

From: frank(at)kusserow-online.comTo: europa-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Europa

-List: Bubble doorsDate: Sun=2C 4 Jan 2009 00:11:46 +0100

Dear All=2C

last November I bought D-EJWD=2C a Europa Classic Mono with Rotax 912 UL.

Since the headroom is definately not sufficient with cussions installed jus

t thick enough for a comfortable seating position (for max. 2 hour-flights)

 - I am looking for those bubble doors I have seen on few UK-pictures on eu

ropaowners.org.

Where are they from? Did aerodynamics change with installation? Are there a

ny other options of getting more headroom easily?



Thanks for a hint or two.



Regards=2C



Frank KusserowEuropa Classic Mono

Essen/Germany 	




____________________________________________________________  

Learn about VA loan programs and benefits. Click  now.

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

sandford(at)melbpc.org.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:48 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Frank



Don´t know if it works with a Classic, but Ian Rickard developed a mod

for the XS to move the ¨step¨at the rear of the rudder pedals about 40mm

forward to the tufnel blocks, thus increasing the leg room.



This would recover any legroom lost in moving the seat bottom forward.



Regards



Lance Sandford (only 6´ 2¨)

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Remi Guerner wrote:

> Frank,

> I suggest you also try to put more cushion on the lower back of the

> seat to get a more reclined position. The upper portion of the seat

> back should be as thin as possible. Moving your bottom forward will

> increase your head clearance. However this will also reduce your leg

> room.

> Regards

> Remi Guerner

> F-PGKL

 Frank

 If you have long body/short legs this will work well. I cut out the

 thigh supports and rebuilt them shaped to fit buttocks. Very

 comfortable and only needs thin cushion, (but bean bag is the best,

 you can change position and still have even pressure)

 Graham

johnfcliff(at)googlemail.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: Bubble doors

 	  Quote: 	
		   > Frank,

 > They were available from the factory as an option at one time.  I 

 don't know if they still are.  Check with them.



 > Here in the States, the plexi was provided by LP Aero Plastics, Inc. 

  That's where I had to go for my windows when Europa when bankrupt.  I 

 don't know if they would be your first choice as the > shipping would 

 probably be expensive.  But if you can't find them anywhere else contact:


	




When these door glasses appeared in 2002 I spoke to Andy Draper about 

them.  They came from LP Aero, there was no UK supplier and no obvious 

intention [or need] to get one.



See  http://www.users.waitrose.com/~jcliff/Mods/bubble.htm   [though of 

course the factory is in completely different ownership now.]

John Cliff

#0259

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: Bubble doors

Bob



You can't take much notice of overall height of your complete body -



Some people have long bodies and others have long legs!



JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz



do not archive

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