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barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: Training

This has been eating at me, so I'm going to share it with you guys:



Andre says:



 	  Quote: 	
		  You have to AVOID entering a landing stall, not enough room to recover.

If you dont believe it, >get an instructor, go to 10,000 feet, drop gear
	


and flaps, slow it to 90 kts (landing configuration) >do an overhead

approach not losing more than 400 feet in the turn and then just load the

stick >(you will not believe how fast you will get in a full established

spin).



I'd like to slightly change that wording of "If you don't believe it" to

"if you haven't done it in the last year" go do it.  Ask yourself, when

was the last time you even stalled your aircraft, full stall, much less an

accelerated departure or spin...high speed, or more importantly, low

speed.  These skills are perishable, guys.  You can't rely on your

training from the Navy or your simulator training 10 years ago.



As a general rule, I think our level of proficiency in these

"non-standard" areas leaves something to be desired.  I think too many

BFR's are either P-51'd or not nearly thorough enough.  I've seen both. 

It would be interesting to take a survey and find out just exactly what

the level of recurrent training is in our group, and my guess is an

*honest* survey would raise some eyebrows.



I also think we need to evaluate how we police the community.  I think

many of us observe others doing things in a way that is worrisome yet

nothing is ever said for fear of offending in some way.  The consequences

are sometimes tragic.  If we are truly "comrades" this need not be the

case.



I hope we all take the opportunity to evaluate ourselves and our

proficiency,encourage others to do the same when the situation calls for

it, and learn departure recovery techniques and stay current!



Regards,



Barry

-- 

Barry Hancock

Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.

office (909) 606-4444

cell (949) 300-5510

www.worldwidewarbirds.com

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_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com

cpayne(at)joimail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: Training

That is, flight training in general. In my local area, we get lots of snowbirds from all over the world coming to Florida for both a winter vaction and recurrent training: both US and PPL. I see an emphasis on mastering the newer glass cockpits and flight management systems.  Traffic? just look at the "fish finder", Towers? Check the MFD for red dots. Look out the cockpit? Why do you need to do that? My CFI friends in Flight Safety love to fly with me in the CJ, it's a refreshing change from teaching the FMS and systems reviews.

  

 Of course, flying our airplanes is different, we are fortunate to have aircraft meant for maneuvering at prices comparable to the GA fleet. When I started flying the CJ, my whole approach to flying changed. For the good I hope. Then I started ferrying newer GA planes around the country. Suddenly there was glass in my face and it wasn't canopy glass. While the PFD/MFD was a new world for me, I found that my "heads up" CJ skills suffered as a result.

  

 Sooo, how much time is a typical CFI in a Cirrus going to spend on unusual attitudes when the customer is there to learn the "glass" in a new tricked out side stick wonder?

  

  

 Craig Payne

 cpayne(at)joimail.com (cpayne(at)joimail.com)

  

  

 

  [quote][b]

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barryhancock

Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Training

Agreed on all points.  However, the CJ/Yak lends it self to the type of flying that intentionally puts you closer to the ragged edge.  I think it's doubly important for us to maintain/refresh UAR and OCF skills.  If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say less than 25% of us have intentionally set out on a hop in the last 24 months dedicated to Unusual Attitude Recovery and Out of Control Flight recovery practice. 



I've solicited the help of the RPA to develop a survey our members, anonymously, on the state of our flight training currency.  I'd like to develop a meaningful survey that can produce worthwhile results from which we can both inform our members, and suggest ways to improve currency and proficiency.  If it saves one life, it's beyond worth it.



Barry

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www.worldwidewarbirds.com

ChangDriver

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 266

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Training

Craig:



Take a look at TAA (Technically Advanced Aircraft) flight training.  The concept is that above 1000 feet, the autopilot should be engaged and flying the plane.  This allows the pilot the ability to push buttons, turn knobs, read displays, etc while Fred is flying the plane for you.  For most GA pilots who are using a plane to travel from point A to point B, this probably isn't bad.



The CAP G-1000 equipped 182 I fly has recently been updated with ADS-B capability.  It is one of a handful of planes in the country with the capability.  The situational awareness in this plane with XM wx, G-1000 and ADS-B is incredible.  Even with all this capability, there is still a wing to fly and other planes to look for.  I was on a flight the other evening on a west heading - so toward setting sun.   About a half mile ahead of me I saw a silhouette passing from left to right.  It was an ultralight out for an evening flight around a lake.  Guess what....it didn't show up on the $50,000 G-1000 with the $12K ADS-B added capability because it didn't have a transponder.  Raleigh radar didn't see it either!  My point is, my fear is that for the average GA guy, they are flying more heads down than heads out the window with all the stuff there is to do inside the cockpit to fly these planes.  So, keep looking for them...they may not see you!



As for training, CAP regs will not allow me to instruct in a G-1000 equipped 182 unless I receive 15 hours of dual from a Cessna factory trained CFI.  Huh....In addition, CAP regs prohibit spinning CAP aircraft.  So, when I instruct in CAP planes, I teach stall recognition and recovery and harp on the ball being centered.  A stall without yaw is a stall.



Here are my further observations about flight training.  Most CFIs are only doing it to time build.  The pay is bad enough that you can't make a living doing it (a YMCA swim instructor makes more per hour as do many other types of instructors).  So you can't expect them to teach the realm of spins, etc.  as that is "specialty training." To learn that, you have to seek upset/recovery training and/or aerobatic training.  The quality of instruction would go up if the pay would go up and allow folks to become career flight instructors.  Some have "made it" but they are few and far between.  There are always exceptions.



I would further venture to guess that most pilots flying our Yaks and CJs (with the exception of the military trained folks) don't understand the V-G diagram, load vs bank, and bank vs % increased stall speed graphs.  I'd also guess that hardly anybody has done a V-G diagram for their plane at the weight they usually fly it at.  Some may not even know where the CG is in their typical flight config.  While this may be a bit technical for most, it is what defines the envelope of flight for an aircraft.  A good understanding of these diagrams coupled with good in aircraft training would go a long way.  All the spin training in the world will not teach that at 70 degrees of bank you are over 3 gs and have increased your stall speed by nearly 60 percent - in unaccelerated flight.  That comes from the graphs!



By the way, the spin recovery technique for a Cirrus is "pull the chute."  In new Cirrus models, recovery from an unusual attitude is "push the blue button."  I'm sure each will save lives.



Cheers,



Craig W.

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