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Ameri-King AK-451 ELT
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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Have any of you builders installed the AK-451 yet?  I have

the old AK-450 right now, and want to go to 406Mhz for an

ELT (I already carry a 406 PLB with GPS integration).



I just want to verify that the standard AK-451 ELT model

has the inputs to accept GPS from an external aviation GPS.

I know they sell some much more expensive ones with

INTEGRATED GPS and it's own antenna, but from what I understand

from a little reading, I think the AK-451 supports external

GPS for no extra cost, whereas other companies make you pay

more for the ability to accept an external GPS.   I would

buy and install it right away if I knew it supported that

feature, as it would fit in my existing mounting.

I emailed the company but got nothing back.  Thought maybe

one of you had experience with it already.



-- 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

steveg(at)redmondair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:22 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

It looks like you have to order the ELT with the GPS option, which adds to

the cost; even though I think it is a worthwhile expense.  What price does

on place on their life or the closure for loved ones?



Steve Graves - Avionics Tech



--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Not what the brochure shows, that I just sent the list. Looks like

standard RS232 interface.



On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Steve <steveg(at)redmondair.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 It looks like you have to order the ELT with the GPS option, which adds to

 the cost; even though I think it is a worthwhile expense.  What price does

 on place on their life or the closure for loved ones?



 Steve Graves - Avionics Tech



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Tim this brochure gives the detail you want. It looks like some

dealers have very good discounts on this unit, under $600

http://www.seaerospace.com/lc/cart.php?target=productDetails&model=AK-451&substring=ak-451



On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Have any of you builders installed the AK-451 yet?  I have

 the old AK-450 right now, and want to go to 406Mhz for an

 ELT (I already carry a 406 PLB with GPS integration).



 I just want to verify that the standard AK-451 ELT model

 has the inputs to accept GPS from an external aviation GPS.

 I know they sell some much more expensive ones with

 INTEGRATED GPS and it's own antenna, but from what I understand

 from a little reading, I think the AK-451 supports external

 GPS for no extra cost, whereas other companies make you pay

 more for the ability to accept an external GPS.   I would

 buy and install it right away if I knew it supported that

 feature, as it would fit in my existing mounting.

 I emailed the company but got nothing back.  Thought maybe

 one of you had experience with it already.



 --

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

AK-451-7.pdf

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Download

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AK-451-7.pdf

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Downloaded:

842 Time(s)

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

ScooterF15

Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

I have also been looking at the AK-451 and I'm waiting for a response from the company as well. I'd like to know whether this unit will fit on the same mounting tray and use the same remote unit/wiring as the AK-450 that I already have. They look very similar but I'd like to know for sure.

   

 -Jim

 N312JE - Doing the second annual

 On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>

 

Have any of you builders installed the AK-451 yet?  I have

the old AK-450 right now, and want to go to 406Mhz for an

ELT (I already carry a 406 PLB with GPS integration).



I just want to verify that the standard AK-451 ELT model

 has the inputs to accept GPS from an external aviation GPS.

I know they sell some much more expensive ones with

INTEGRATED GPS and it's own antenna, but from what I understand

from a little reading, I think the AK-451 supports external

 GPS for no extra cost, whereas other companies make you pay

more for the ability to accept an external GPS.   I would

buy and install it right away if I knew it supported that

feature, as it would fit in my existing mounting.

 I emailed the company but got nothing back.  Thought maybe

one of you had experience with it already.



-- 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD -======================

 ownload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http:=====

                 -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====



[b]

steveg(at)redmondair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:46 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

ELT SET 406 WHIP & PORT ANT (AK-451-2) has no GPS interface

ELT SET 406 WHIP & PORT ANT w/GPS (AK-451-6) has GPS interface 



If you order the basic lower priced AK-451-2 thinking you can interface it

to the GPS, you will be very disappointed.  There is a considerable price

difference. 



--

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

You might want to consider the ACK E04. http://www.ackavionics.com/ It uses

the existing AK 450 remote wiring and will accept NEMA0183 format GPS

signals.  



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Good question...  I guess I have to look at each life individually

to come up with a valuation.  For instance, my older daughter

is kind of sassy.  I put her at 3 million.  My younger one is

still pretty sweet, so for the time being, I'll consider her

4 million.  My wife, although very very nice, she's already

approaching half of her useful life...so I'll only go 2 mil on

her.  Now me, I don't think I'd put myself anywhere over a million,

unless I can get in better shape.  If I lost a few lbs and

maybe buffed up a bit, I might be worth more. 



Ok, being serious now....



Kelly, that is great pricing. It does seem to be well below the

standard.  The thing is, I am having a hard time really

trusting all the websites that basically list the promo features,

but don't identify the specific models.  Now, in that page's case,

http://www.seaerospace.com/lc/cart.php?target=productDetails&model=AK-451&substring=ak-451

you'll notice that the part number is AK-451-PLB (P-ELT)

So it's really a PLB, not a legal ELT, that needs to be the

"AF" Automatic Fixed type.  So sure, it would be fine for

signalling, but not legal as an ELT.  The pricing I'm seeing

for the real AF type seems to be in the $850 range from most

places.  But, there again, there are so many higher priced models

that it's hard to see what features are truly with that model.

Here is one of my purchase options:

http://www.skygeek.com/ameri-king-ak-451-406-mhz-elt.html



I can answer at least part of Jim's question though...

Jim, there is a bracket adapter that they have available

for mounting a 451 in the 450's tray.  And, I think

I've seen/heard that the remote wiring is the same.

That's what did it for me.  Also, I did at one point hear

that they were going to offer upgrade pricing...in my

email to them (that they haven't answered) I asked the

question, so I hope it is true.



Oh well, maybe I should get on the phone or email daily. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Steve wrote:

[quote] 

 

 It looks like you have to order the ELT with the GPS option, which adds to

 the cost; even though I think it is a worthwhile expense.  What price does

 on place on their life or the closure for loved ones?

 

 Steve Graves - Avionics Tech

 

 --

steveg(at)redmondair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

RETROFIT INSTRUCTIONS FROM AK-450 TO AK-451   

Old Model No.: AK-450-(AF)(AP), ELT 121,5/243 MHz, FAA TSO C91a approved.   

New Model No.: AK-451-(AF)(AP), ELT 406/121,5/243 MHz, FAA TSO C126/91a approved.   

RETROFIT INSTRUCTIONS:   

1. Swap the followings items: ELT with mounting tray; Antenna with Coaxial Cable; Remote Switch Unit with Buzzer.   

Note 1: All mounting holes and cut out holes are exactly the same.   

Note 2: Wiring Harness, between ELT and Remote Switch Unit, is exactly the same i.e. Do not change the wiring harness. It is OK to use the existing AK-450 wiring.   

Note 3: Adding a new Buzzer to be mounted anywhere in the cockpit, i.e. Tie wrap into the aircraft Wiring Harness, or Fasten onto or behind the instrument Panel, or fasten on the Remote Switch Unit.   

2. Register with NOAA (or IBRD) (or National) via on line, or mailing the Registration Form using the provided pre-stamped envelop.   

QUICK OPERATION CHECK:   

Main Switch (at) ON position: Same as the AK-450, except you will see the LED lights flashing and Buzzer sound (1 second ON, 4 seconds OFF), in lieu of steady ON. (This is to save Battery Power for the LED Lights and Buzzer).   

Main Switch (at) ARM position: You will see the 2 LED lights illuminate and Buzzer sound, for 4 seconds, then extinguished.   

Wait for additional 20 seconds, then Press the ON Switch on the Remote Switch Unit, ELT swept Tone must be heard on the VHF Radio (at)121.5 MHz.   

The 2 LED lights flashing (1 second ON, 4 seconds OFF), synchronized with the Buzzer sound (1 second ON, 4 seconds OFF).   

Press the RESET Switch on the Remote Switch Unit.   

Leave the Main Switch (at) ARM position at all times  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James McGrew

 Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:59 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT  

  

     

I have also been looking at the AK-451 and I'm waiting for a response from the company as well. I'd like to know whether this unit will fit on the same mounting tray and use the same remote unit/wiring as the AK-450 that I already have. They look very similar but I'd like to know for sure.  

    

   

    

-Jim  

    

N312JE - Doing the second annual  

    

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:  

--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)>

 

 Have any of you builders installed the AK-451 yet?  I have

 the old AK-450 right now, and want to go to 406Mhz for an

 ELT (I already carry a 406 PLB with GPS integration).

 

 I just want to verify that the standard AK-451 ELT model

 has the inputs to accept GPS from an external aviation GPS.

 I know they sell some much more expensive ones with

 INTEGRATED GPS and it's own antenna, but from what I understand

 from a little reading, I think the AK-451 supports external

 GPS for no extra cost, whereas other companies make you pay

 more for the ability to accept an external GPS.   I would

 buy and install it right away if I knew it supported that

 feature, as it would fit in my existing mounting.

 I emailed the company but got nothing back.  Thought maybe

 one of you had experience with it already.

 

 -- 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD -======================

 ownload, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" target="_blank">http:=====

                -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 =====

 

 

   

  

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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Steve,

Not trying to doubt you, but...

Do you have personal experience with those units, or are you just

showing what you find on websites?  That's what is so confusing

is that depending on where you look, they talk about GPS

interfaces on most all of the models.  And there just isn't

good consistency in promo material.



Looking at these 2 sheets, I can't even see a difference:

http://www.edmoap.com.au/modules/products/xarimages/PDF/AK-451-2.pdf

http://www.edmoap.com.au/modules/products/xarimages/PDF/AK-451-6.pdf



Pricing is easily seen here:

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/ELT/Ameriking.html

But again, none of the explanation in the lower half of the

page really explains that there are models that DO NOT

have GPS integration.  Some sites even make it sound like

it has onboard GPS.



So I just hoped to talk to someone with personal experience,

not just from reading the web....because if someone else

ordered a AK451-2 and got burned, certainly they would

know.



As David pointed out, there is the ACK E-04 coming

out too.  But, they still show on their website that

they are not taking orders until it's TSO'd.



http://www.ackavionics.com/index.html



Now, in my personal situation, there is still a significant

difference between the E-04 and the AK-451, even if both

accept GPS.  The E-04 says it will accept a NEMA-0183 GPS

position....where the ACK doesn't say it will.  I have a

perfectly positioned (wiring wise) NMEA-0183 GPS that

would be really handy to plug in.  And, if the MSRP holds

true at $599, this one would sure be the way to go.



It sounds like best case, the E-04 will be available in

late March to mid-april.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Steve wrote:

[quote] 

 

 ELT SET 406 WHIP & PORT ANT (AK-451-2) has no GPS interface

 ELT SET 406 WHIP & PORT ANT w/GPS (AK-451-6) has GPS interface 

 

 If you order the basic lower priced AK-451-2 thinking you can interface it

 to the GPS, you will be very disappointed.  There is a considerable price

 difference. 

 

 --

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

After forwarding the ACK E04 diagram I called to confirm its meaning. The

external GPS hook up requires 4 wires. Power, ground, GPS in/out. The out

need only be used to verify on initial install that the E04 is receiving the

GPS data properly. It can then be discontinued. This would allow Y ing the

GPS out to the normal EFIS input and into the ELT to constanly update

position.  



--

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:31 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

I talked with Keith at AmeriKing and what Steve says is correct.  The cheaper unit cannot be interfaced with any GPS.  The more expensive one does not have an onboard GPS and must be hooked up to an external GPS.  Given the Ameriking prices I would wait for the ACK E04 that is cheaper than either AmeriKing unit and accepts GPS data.



Michael



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

You are probably correct. From their brochure, if what you say is true, 

I would call it deceptive advertising. I would interpret the w/GPS to 

actually have a built-in GPS, as opposed to just an interface. BWTFDIK. 

Sure would be nice if the literature were clearer on the available options.



Steve wrote:

[quote] 

 

 ELT SET 406 WHIP & PORT ANT (AK-451-2) has no GPS interface

 ELT SET 406 WHIP & PORT ANT w/GPS (AK-451-6) has GPS interface 

 

 If you order the basic lower priced AK-451-2 thinking you can interface it

 to the GPS, you will be very disappointed.  There is a considerable price

 difference. 

 

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Kelly,



  There are lots of different versions which doesn't help the confusion.  The model that is found for around $500 is probably the PLB model which only comes with a whip and doesn't even contain a "G" switch.



http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/ELT/Ameriking.html



Michael



--

steveg(at)redmondair.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Is 36 years as an avionics technician enough experience?



--

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Kelly wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



You are probably correct. From their brochure, if what you say is true, 

I would call it deceptive advertising. I would interpret the w/GPS to 

actually have a built-in GPS, as opposed to just an interface. BWTFDIK. 

Sure would be nice if the literature were clearer on the available options.



 -- 	




Steve wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

Is 36 years as an avionics technician enough experience? 

 

 -- 	




  I agree and had the exact same thought as you Kelly.  Even had an email T'd up to that effect when I slapped myself and remembered this old thing sitting in front of me with a bunch of numbered buttons on it.  I punched a few of them and was talking (loosley defined as I wouldn't call what I was hearing english) to their tech guy.  Either way he was very clear on the differences between the units and that only the expensive one could take GPS data.



  And Steve, I certainly wasn't disregarding what you were saying but I also wasn't sure if you were quoting direct experience or the brochure as it really could have been interpreted either way.  As the old saying goes, trust but verify.



Michael

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

Thanks for reporting.  I got basically that info just a bit

ago offline as well.  That turns their stuff from being

a fairly decent offering to being out of this world in

pricing.  Given the ability to use my wiring with an

ACK E-04, and the flexibility of NEMA-0183 GPS, AND the

pricing being $599, I think that's my plan as well.

I plan to do some international flying in the near future,

and while it's not required for this trip, and I probably

won't have it for the trip, I see no reason to just leave

a plain old 121.5Mhz system as my only ELT.  I have a PLB

that should work fine, and that has GPS in it too. Given

the combo, searchers should be able to find both the

plane, AND a moving group of hikers (or floating group of

swimmers) if we take the PLB portable.  Assuming, of

course, that I crash. 

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote] 

 <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

 

 I talked with Keith at AmeriKing and what Steve says is correct.  The

 cheaper unit cannot be interfaced with any GPS.  The more expensive

 one does not have an onboard GPS and must be hooked up to an external

 GPS.  Given the Ameriking prices I would wait for the ACK E04 that is

 cheaper than either AmeriKing unit and accepts GPS data.

 

 Michael

 

 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

That's very cool that they have an In and an Out.  Right now

I have a GPS signal split that goes to my APRS, also, so in the

case of the ELT, I'll probably change the APRS so that the ELT

gets the GPS signal and then outputs it to the APRS.  It should

be almost nothing to change my wiring to support that plan.

Thanks for the update David.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying



David McNeill wrote:

[quote] 

 

 After forwarding the ACK E04 diagram I called to confirm its meaning. The

 external GPS hook up requires 4 wires. Power, ground, GPS in/out. The out

 need only be used to verify on initial install that the E04 is receiving the

 GPS data properly. It can then be discontinued. This would allow Y ing the

 GPS out to the normal EFIS input and into the ELT to constanly update

 position.  

 

 --

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

When is the 406 required in Canada?  I thought it might already be, and I

thought that a PLB was not enough for them.  



John Jessen



do not archive 



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: Ameri-King AK-451 ELT

No, that's great. I wasn't doubting you...it's just there

is so much fuzzy info I wanted to know if you saw it firsthand....

not just that you saw it on the web.  Sounds like you must

have firsthand experience with them.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Steve wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Is 36 years as an avionics technician enough experience?

 

 --

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