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control cables

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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: control cables

I am ready to order control cables for the Firestar, for the elevator and rudder.  The cables that are on there are 3/32", 7x19, and appear to be galvanized.  Is this correct, or should I order the 7x7 which is more abrasion proof (according to ACS catalog)?  Also, stainless or galvanized?  This thing is an early one, so I don't know if the hardware is correct.

   There was no sign of excessive wear or chafing on the old ones.

  

                                                        Bill Sullivan

 [quote][b]

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: control cables

Bill, I'd recommend the 7 X 7 stainless with the vinyl coating. The coating keeps dirt and crud out of the cable and makes it easier to handle although you do spend a little extra time to strip the coating. Also, you might want to review AC 43-13 for the proper way to do cable terminations with a single zinc plated Nico sleeve (use the unplated copper sleeves if you decide to use galvanized cable). If you don't have a copy handy you can find it on line at FAA.gov. The other thing I'd recommend is make up a jig with the old cables so you can do them outside the aircraft and then install them. You only have to be +/- 1/8" to satisfy the proper adjustment of the turnbuckles so why beat yourself up trying to make them in situ. Last, trim the ears on the thimbles so the nico fits up against the thimble. Last, last, I promise, check the prices at McMaster Carr (mcmaster.com) you might significant money, I haven't checked lately  . 



Rick

do not archive



On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 3:11 PM, william sullivan <williamtsullivan(at)att.net (williamtsullivan(at)att.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		    I am ready to order control cables for the Firestar, for the elevator and rudder.  The cables that are on there are 3/32", 7x19, and appear to be galvanized.  Is this correct, or should I order the 7x7 which is more abrasion proof (according to ACS catalog)?  Also, stainless or galvanized?  This thing is an early one, so I don't know if the hardware is correct.

    There was no sign of excessive wear or chafing on the old ones.

  

                                                        Bill Sullivan

  [/b] 	
[b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject: control cables

Rick:

  

 Did not know there was an aircraft control cable  that was vinyl coated?  Sounds more like something you would find on an  Eipper Quicksilver.

  

 The determination of whether to use 7X7 or 7X19  depends on how much bending will be involved around pullies, and also how much  scuffing will be encountered if using fair leads.

  

 Galvanize is tougher than SS.

  

 I personally would not use a vinyl coated cable for  controls on a Kolb.  I don't see a requirement for a coated cable to keep  it clean. 

  

 I still use two nicopress sleeves for each control  cable end.  Does it really need it?  I don't know.  Probably a  carry over from Old Kolb instructions and construction practices.  I  do know, those old instructions work.

  

 john h

 mkIII 

  

  

  

  

 [quote]    

Bill, I'd recommend the 7 X 7    stainless with the vinyl coating.     



   Rick

    

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:46 pm Post subject: control cables

At 04:11 PM 1/14/2009, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     I am ready to order control cables for the Firestar, for the elevator 

 and rudder.  The cables that are on there are 3/32", 7x19, and appear to 

 be galvanized.  Is this correct, or should I order the 7x7 which is more 

 abrasion proof (according to ACS catalog)?  Also, stainless or 

 galvanized?  This thing is an early one, so I don't know if the hardware 

 is correct.


	


At 06:59 PM 1/14/2009, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Bill, I'd recommend the 7 X 7 stainless with the vinyl coating. The 

coating keeps dirt and crud out of the cable...


	


WEther you use 7X7 or 7X19 depends on the pulley size... 7X19 is more 

flexible (can go around a smaller diameter pulley) than 7X7.  If the pulley 

is large enough, 7x7 is better... more abrasion resistant as you say.  Some 

information on cable size vs. pulley size is at:

http://www.savacable.com/pages/applic_10.html



As far as plastic coated cable, it's never recommended for aircraft 

controls.  The pulley is made for a particular size cable.  To use coated 

cable in a pulley sized for uncoated cable, you'd have to go to a smaller 

diameter cable inside-- not good-- or a larger pulley.  Also the cables 

will slacken if the coating wears around the pulley, and you can't inspect 

the cable for broken strands.



As for stainless vs galvanized, go with the galvanized; it has better 

fatigue and wear resistance.

http://www.mechanicsupport.com/aircraft_wire_rope_source.html



-Dana



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  We are sorry, you have reached an imaginary number.

Please rotate your phone ninety degrees and try again.

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: control cables

Where are there pulleys in the Kolb control system? Neither my FS nor Mk III has them. There are some fair leads but that's it.



Rick 



On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>

  

 At 04:11 PM 1/14/2009, william sullivan wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     I am ready to order control cables for the Firestar, for the elevator and rudder.  The cables that are on there are 3/32", 7x19, and appear to be galvanized.  Is this correct, or should I order the 7x7 which is more abrasion proof (according to ACS catalog)?  Also, stainless or galvanized?  This thing is an early one, so I don't know if the hardware is correct.

  	
 

 At 06:59 PM 1/14/2009, Richard Girard wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Bill, I'd recommend the 7 X 7 stainless with the vinyl coating. The coating keeps dirt and crud out of the cable...

 	
 

 WEther you use 7X7 or 7X19 depends on the pulley size... 7X19 is more flexible (can go around a smaller diameter pulley) than 7X7.  If the pulley is large enough, 7x7 is better... more abrasion resistant as you say.  Some information on cable size vs. pulley size is at:

  http://www.savacable.com/pages/applic_10.html

 

 As far as plastic coated cable, it's never recommended for aircraft controls.  The pulley is made for a particular size cable.  To use coated cable in a pulley sized for uncoated cable, you'd have to go to a smaller diameter cable inside-- not good-- or a larger pulley.  Also the cables will slacken if the coating wears around the pulley, and you can't inspect the cable for broken strands.

  

 As for stainless vs galvanized, go with the galvanized; it has better fatigue and wear resistance.

 http://www.mechanicsupport.com/aircraft_wire_rope_source.html

 

 -Dana

 

 --

  We are sorry, you have reached an imaginary number.

 Please rotate your phone ninety degrees and try again.



 

 

 

 

 

 



[b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:02 pm Post subject: Control Cables

I guess I'll go with the 7x7 galvanized, and two nicopress sleeves per end- two sleeves were on there.  The pulleys are almost a straight shot through both sets- just a little vertical difference.  No wear on the old ones, but severed during crash/recovery.

  

                                               Thanks

  

                                               Bill Sullivan

 [quote][b]

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: control cables

I think you are right on that Plastic coated cable  John  it was not intended to be used on flight controls  just to keep  a dog home 

  

           Ellery in Maine 

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 1/14/2009 7:32:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Rick:

    

   Did not know there was an aircraft control cable    that was vinyl coated?  Sounds more like something you would find on an    Eipper Quicksilver.

    

   The determination of whether to use 7X7 or 7X19    depends on how much bending will be involved around pullies, and also how much    scuffing will be encountered if using fair leads.

    

   Galvanize is tougher than SS.

    

   I personally would not use a vinyl coated cable    for controls on a Kolb.  I don't see a requirement for a coated cable to    keep it clean. 

    

   I still use two nicopress sleeves for each    control cable end.  Does it really need it?  I don't know.     Probably a carry over from Old Kolb instructions and construction    practices.  I do know, those old instructions work.

    

   john h

   mkIII 

    

    

    

    

    	  Quote: 	
		        

Bill, I'd recommend the 7 X 7      stainless with the vinyl coating.      

 

     Rick

      





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  [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:52 pm Post subject: Control Cables

Maybe you call them fairleads, but they look like pulleys to me.  One set of four under the rear seat cross tube, and the other set of four is at the bottom of the front of the fuselage tube.  To me, a pulley operates on one plane, and a fairlead operates on two.  I could be wrong, but that's what Ramsey Winch called them when I used to install them. They are phenolic resin, with bearings, in a horizontal stack of four. and a 1/4" bolt for an axle.

  

                                                   Bill Sullivan

                                                   Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: Control Cables

Bill:

  

 This is a fairlead.

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fairleads.php

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

                               Maybe you call them fairleads, but they look like pulleys to          me.   

                                                                    Bill Sullivan

                                                                    Windsor Locks, Ct.

 	  Quote: 	
		   	
[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject: Control Cables

Thanks, John.  I've never run across that type before- nor are there any on this aircraft.  I have never dealt with anything that small, but I can see how it would serve the purpose.  I am used to roller fairleads on a large winch or crane.  

  

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: control cables

At 07:59 PM 1/14/2009, Richard Girard wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Where are there pulleys in the Kolb control system? Neither my FS nor Mk 

III has them. There are some fair leads but that's it.


	


My UltraStar has six of them!  I'm not familiar with the later models...



-Dana

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:02 pm Post subject: Control Cables

At 09:49 PM 1/14/2009, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Thanks, John.  I've never run across that type before- nor are there 

 any on this aircraft.  I have never dealt with anything that small, but I 

 can see how it would serve the purpose.  I am used to roller fairleads on 

 a large winch or crane.


	


Your roller fairleads are used when the direction the cable pays out might 

not be constant.  The fairleads John's talking about are used when they're 

almost not necessary; the cable is a long straight shot and the fairlead is 

placed in the middle to keep the cable from slapping around and chafing on 

other parts.  At most they can handle a very slight direction change.



-Dana

--

  If vegetarians eat vegetables,..beware of humanitarians!

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