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wild.blue(at)verizon.net
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 Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:58 pm Post subject: Spins redux |
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Mark, buddy, pal, friend, amigo, fellow aviator etc etc--
Give me a break--guess I'm not getting this right. Don't misunderstand me.
I've done lots of spins and have given lots of spin training, in lots of
different aircraft types, from lots of different attitudes and entries and
have basic aerobatic skills. I highly encourage getting lots of training,
spins and aerobatics included, more the better, regardless of skill and
experience. After all, that's the business I'm in, wink, wink. But just to
make sure I die in a nice soft, warm bed, surrounded by lots of beautiful,
loving, naked women with big tits, god love 'em, my strategy is to only spin
airplanes I know have demonstrated predictable recoveries using standard
recovery techniques and to make sure that when I spin them they're properly
rigged, loaded and in the right CG range, that's all. -52's, as has been
well documented, do not always exhibit predictable recoveries using standard
recovery techniques, and some -52's, in some modes, may not recover at all.
I'll take Richard Goode's (and others') word on that. Unfortunately, I've
never gotten spin training in a -52. Maybe, one fine day, I'll get an
opportunity to get some good training. I'd like that. Might be a good RPA
exercise. But until then I'm not going to spin a -52. I have no illusions
about my skill or experience level. And I sure don't want to experiment
with power application during recovery until I'm way, way down the curve, if
ever.
Too many pilots way beyond my experience and skill level have been killed
doing spins in -52's and I don't want to join their ranks. Guess I've just
gotten cautious now that I'm approaching dotage.
But, no, I don't want to discourage folks from spinning aircraft, unless
they're of the variety that may not recover predictably (which includes all
of those in the Normal category), especially if their training consists of
the "read about it in a book" or "my buddy told me" or "I read about it on
the Yak-list so it must be OK" or if their experience is of the pitiful
initial CFI spin training variety. If I had a -50, I would spin it, too.
But a -52 is not a -50 or a Citabria or a 172 or a Nanchang. I think we can
agree on that. In fact, I don't think we really disagree about any of this.
The whole point of this discussion was to get proper training, including
spins, right? Good idea. But I don't do spins or spin training in -52's.
Not really sure I'd want to. Just getting old, soft, fat and senile, I
guess. Hooah!
Maybe its all those naked women.
Jerry Painter
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: Spins redux |
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Let me make it totally clear.
The Yak 52 will ALLWAYS recover from a spin PROVIDED that the CORRECT
procedures are followed.
BUT,if a spin is well-developed and flat,recovery can be prolonged and not
straight forward.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
I'm currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is
+94 779 132 160.
---
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: Spins redux |
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Gee guys,
All this spin talk, I really feel you guys are basically saying the same thing. It could be that one really needs to be very familiar with the spin character of his particular type aircraft. If you have a 52, it behooves you to know all it's spin modes and recovery techniques, especially if you doing acro. While the CJ isn't know for pulling such antics, everyone, in all aircraft, needs to know and understand eminent stall recognition and recovery, be it C-150 or Yak 50.
Why? because on every flight every airplane makes an approach to landing, thus every aircraft inters that area in the pattern, where cross controls, high AOA, high bank angles at reduced IAS, can be nothing but disastrous.
When doing stalls/spin entries at altitude, most students are not aware of their altitude lost. There is no real way of judging how fast one is coming down. Reading the numbers on the altimeter or asking the student to make sure he recovers to straight & level before a designated altitude, may prove to the student the realization of how little leeway he/she has in recovering.
Just this afternoon at our B-24/B-17 ground school, the instructor showed the spin tests of the F-22. That airplane guys don't really spin! It eerily flops around. First forward, than backward, than a twisting rolling kind of flat spin. It was the God awful est thing to see. The wind vanes on the nose probe were at one pointing every which direction. You could hear the pilot's labored and rapid breathing on the intercom including the a deep sigh when the gyrations stopped. I had heart palpitation just watching it!
Good discussion here. I have not done any Yak spins, so their different modes, and recovery techniques are very interesting to me.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
A Good Credit Score is 1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!
[quote][b]
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:51 am Post subject: Spins redux |
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Jerry. Here is what Richard said. Exactly.
"
Let me make it totally clear.
The Yak 52 will ALLWAYS recover from a spin PROVIDED that the CORRECT
procedures are followed.
BUT,if a spin is well-developed and flat,recovery can be prolonged and not
straight forward.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
United Kingdom"
The real question as I saw it between the two of us was simply this: Is spin training just as important as spin avoidance? To me it is. After that it degenerated into a discussion of the 52, in particular. Personally, and as long as I have the right instructor on-board, I would not hesitate to spin it, and Sergei Boriak has not either and teaches same. I am not trying to change your personal opinion, or change what you decide to do in life. To do that would be stupid and a waste of time, plus... it's none of my business. However, my impression was that you were taking your personal views and recommending that others follow them as well. If that was not the intent... then I need to end this right now, which I will.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Jerry Painter
Sent: Wed 1/14/2009 4:57 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Spins redux
Mark, buddy, pal, friend, amigo, fellow aviator etc etc--
Give me a break--guess I'm not getting this right. Don't misunderstand me.
I've done lots of spins and have given lots of spin training, in lots of
different aircraft types, from lots of different attitudes and entries and
have basic aerobatic skills. I highly encourage getting lots of training,
spins and aerobatics included, more the better, regardless of skill and
experience. After all, that's the business I'm in, wink, wink. But just to
make sure I die in a nice soft, warm bed, surrounded by lots of beautiful,
loving, naked women with big tits, god love 'em, my strategy is to only spin
airplanes I know have demonstrated predictable recoveries using standard
recovery techniques and to make sure that when I spin them they're properly
rigged, loaded and in the right CG range, that's all. -52's, as has been
well documented, do not always exhibit predictable recoveries using standard
recovery techniques, and some -52's, in some modes, may not recover at all.
I'll take Richard Goode's (and others') word on that. Unfortunately, I've
never gotten spin training in a -52. Maybe, one fine day, I'll get an
opportunity to get some good training. I'd like that. Might be a good RPA
exercise. But until then I'm not going to spin a -52. I have no illusions
about my skill or experience level. And I sure don't want to experiment
with power application during recovery until I'm way, way down the curve, if
ever.
Too many pilots way beyond my experience and skill level have been killed
doing spins in -52's and I don't want to join their ranks. Guess I've just
gotten cautious now that I'm approaching dotage.
But, no, I don't want to discourage folks from spinning aircraft, unless
they're of the variety that may not recover predictably (which includes all
of those in the Normal category), especially if their training consists of
the "read about it in a book" or "my buddy told me" or "I read about it on
the Yak-list so it must be OK" or if their experience is of the pitiful
initial CFI spin training variety. If I had a -50, I would spin it, too.
But a -52 is not a -50 or a Citabria or a 172 or a Nanchang. I think we can
agree on that. In fact, I don't think we really disagree about any of this.
The whole point of this discussion was to get proper training, including
spins, right? Good idea. But I don't do spins or spin training in -52's.
Not really sure I'd want to. Just getting old, soft, fat and senile, I
guess. Hooah!
Maybe its all those naked women.
Jerry Painter
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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