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Cold Weather Starting

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ryan(at)greenlandings.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:07 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are  experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic  area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said,  does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has  been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking  to see if anyone has any bright ideas.     

Ryan Gross Green Landings Flight Center, Inc SkyRanger Aircraft Arion Lightning 304-754-6010   [quote]-----Original  Message-----   From: "GARY PENNINGTON" <pennington(at)q.com>   To: <lightning-list(at)matronics.com>   Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 06:56:35 -0700   Subject: Re: Icy Cold?       <?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace  prefix="o" /><![endif]-->        Good morning Wayne     

           

     I don't live in the really cold areas of the US, but it  can get chilly here. I'm in Tucson, Arizona. Your current temperatures  are very similar to ours during the Summer months. In Tucson, during the  Summer, it is commonly 110 degrees at mid day. Needless to say, I fly  very early in the mornings. Oh well, nothing is perfect.     

           

     Happy flying.     

           

     Gary Pennington     

     [quote]       ---

pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Here's a site that has some interesting information on engine heating.

  

 http://www.reiffpreheat.com/product.htm

 



 

 On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:02 AM, ryan gross <ryan(at)greenlandings.com (ryan(at)greenlandings.com)> wrote:

 [quote] Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

   

Ryan Gross 

Green Landings Flight Center, Inc 

SkyRanger Aircraft 

Arion Lightning 

304-754-6010 



 [quote]--

checkpoint2(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

He Ryan, do the 60W bulb on an extension cord for an hour.  Say did you get the prop from Sensenich yet  

And how is Our N330BH coming? Please send me a picture for Sebring display. Bob.  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ryan gross

 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:02 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Cold Weather Starting  

  

     

Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

     

  

Ryan Gross 

 Green Landings Flight Center, Inc 

 SkyRanger Aircraft 

 Arion Lightning 

 304-754-6010   

--

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ryan(at)greenlandings.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Just    looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

	


 

 Hi Ryan and all,

     Certainly at the 8 degrees F that you are talking  about, some engine pre heat is appropriate.  The goal is to get the oil  temps up so that it is immediately able to circulate through the engine to  provide the lubrication that is needed.  So the pre heat needs to be long  enough so that the entire engine area is warmed up some, not just the oil  sump.  So I suggest having the heat blow up through the bottom cowl onto  the engine and put some blanket over the top of the cowl and plugs into the  front cowl air openings to help hold the heat in.  Then of course, use the  cold start procedures that Jabiru talks about - throttle idle and choke on, pull  the prop through several blades to prime.  And don't forget to have a well  charged battery.  

     Of course, the ideal situation is to have the  airplane in a hangar which allows you to do some things ahead of time to help  the situation.  During the winter months I always keep a 100 watt light  bulb right under the oil sump (make sure it is not resting on your fiberglass  cowling) and a blanket over the cowl and cowl plugs in to hold the heat.  I  find that this adds about 15 degrees to the OAT and normally helps my cold  starts.  The other thing I do during winter months is keep a trickle  charger hooked up to my battery (that is now about 3 1/2 years old).   

     One last thing, if cold weather starts are still a  problem with all the above done, they you may have a problem with the gaps in  the mags.  If the gaps are too wide, it will be hard to start when  cold.  I think the book calls for the gaps to be .010, but Pete and Nick  showed me a good trick by using a common business card to set the gap.   Just tear the business card (most of them are pretty close to .010) into a size  that will  fit between the flywheel magnets and the mags, loosen the allen  head screws to allow the mag to close the gap, then re-tighten the screws with  the card "setting" the gap.  After that you may have to turn the prop to  get the pieces of business card stock out of the mags.  

     Blue Skies,

 Buz



A Good Credit Score013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Hello Ryan

 Here in Tucson, it is not really cold by your standards, but still the  Jabiru takes a while to start and warm up. I pull the throttle off  and the choke out full. It will start and run for a  few seconds and  then stop. After the third attempt, I push in the throttle  about 1/4" and full choke. The engine will start and run with some minor choke  adjustments. A friend of mine installed an oil pan heater on his truck. It just  sticks onto the outside of the oil pan and you plug it in. I thought about using  one on the Jab but haven't gotten around to it yet.

  

 Gary PEnnington

 [quote]   ---

pete(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Plug in the Tanis engine heater for an hour and cover the cowl with a blanket.  

   

Starting in that low a temp without per heat of some kind is nearly impossible.  Sometimes a hair dryer to warm up the carb and intake manifolds will help.  

   

Pete  

     

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ryan gross

 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:02 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Cold Weather Starting  

  

     

Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

     

  

Ryan Gross 

 Green Landings Flight Center, Inc 

 SkyRanger Aircraft 

 Arion Lightning 

 304-754-6010   

--

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Gary, my Esqual engine does the starting and stopping, I have a theory.

Ryan, also

see:

http://www.voy.com/16193/

There is a thread on cold starting which explains my thoughts. The cold

starting issue is talked about every year on the Yahoo Jabiru engines

group and the Jabiru owners forum, and everyone resorts to block heating

or hair dryers or jump leads or a combination. I agree that when the

ambient gets to certain levels that is your only option. In the UK

though we rarely get to the extremes that need that and I firmly believe

that in a normal UK winter and in many other places at our winter

temperatures you should not need to start messing about to start your

Jabiru engine. You should just turn the key. The reason I believe is the

starting system is too lean for a cold day. Why do I believe this?

Because there are a few Jabiru engines that always start in the UK

throughout the winter.



Your ramp problem I think is, I think another example, though I would

say you are moving to what an average Brit would say is extreme. 

My bright idea would be, when parking up, to take an old blanket, cut it

into three bits, stuff the two smaller bits in the cowl ducts and the

big bit up the hole in the bottom. Then remember to take them out when

you're ready to fly again....



Regards, Clive



--

catalpaaviation(at)wideba
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Hullo all, cold starting used to be a big problem for me.  I have a flying school and my Jabiru J160 would not start even with a jumper lead.  It starts every morning now down to 0 degrees centigrade, (doesn’t get much colder here).  The fix  

<![if !supportLists]>1                     <![endif]>plug gap must be .55m and checked every 33 hours (replace at 100)  

<![if !supportLists]>2                     <![endif]>Coils 10th  

<![if !supportLists]>3                     <![endif]>Shift earth lead to back of starter where the 2 long an3 bolts are (use the an3 bolt to hold earth lead)  

<![if !supportLists]>4                     <![endif]>Pull prop through a few revolutions  

<![if !supportLists]>5                     <![endif]>Good battery (mine is 3 years old and going well)  

<![if !supportLists]>6                     <![endif]>Fly 4-6 hours every day (joking)  

   

Good luck  

   

Anthony Kit No 32  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Haas

 Sent: Saturday, 17 January 2009 1:44 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Cold Weather Starting  

  

   

            He Ryan, do the 60W bulb on an extension cord for an hour.  Say did you get the prop from Sensenich yet  

And how is Our N330BH coming? Please send me a picture for Sebring display. Bob.  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ryan gross

 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 9:02 AM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Cold Weather Starting  

  

     

Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

     

  

Ryan Gross 

 Green Landings Flight Center, Inc 

 SkyRanger Aircraft 

 Arion Lightning 

 304-754-6010   

--

Dick

Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 12

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:53 pm Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Hi Ryan

  

 My ligtning is equiped with the Tannis heater.  In reasonable weather (like above 20deg ) a two hour preheat is plenty.  

 If it is really cold three or four hours of preheat with a blanket over the cowl is needed.   Like Pete said. 

 Tannis is at tannisaircraft.com   

  

 Dick Cleavinger

 home base Boulder, Colorado

 n213rc(at)gmail.com (n213rc(at)gmail.com)

 Lightning # 42

 On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Pete Krotje <pete(at)flylightning.net (pete(at)flylightning.net)> wrote:

 [quote]   

Plug in the Tanis engine heater for an hour and cover the cowl with a blanket. 

  

Starting in that low a temp without per heat of some kind is nearly impossible.  Sometimes a hair dryer to warm up the carb and intake manifolds will help. 

  

Pete 

   

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of ryan gross

 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:02 AM  

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)



 Subject: Cold Weather Starting

 



  

   

Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

   

 

Ryan Gross 

Green Landings Flight Center, Inc 

SkyRanger Aircraft 

Arion Lightning 

304-754-6010  

--

Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle to  get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the morning,  then refused to start in the afternoon.   

  

 Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity  available.  Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene  heater may all work, but you need some sparks.

  

 What if you dont have electric?   What can you carry with  you  in a Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery  enough to spin it and start?  It doesn't have to  be below zero for a Jab to be hard to start.

  

 Doug

  

  

  

  

 In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  ryan(at)greenlandings.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are    experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic    area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does    anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been    sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see    if anyone has any bright ideas. 

  

Ryan Gross 

Green    Landings Flight Center, Inc 

SkyRanger Aircraft 

Arion Lightning    

304-754-6010 



	


 

  

  [quote][b]

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:24 pm Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

What if you don't have electric?   

I recall last year a suggestion that heating up the battery with a chemical heating pad helped get the thing to liven up a bit. The kind that camping shops sell for folk who go hiking in winter.

What one could heat the engine up with given the flammable aspects......

I'm very much a believer that the starting system is too lean and Ryan's restart problem would be helped by a richer starting system I'm sure. 



Another post mentioned spark plug gaps. I once got one away by closing the gaps down on one set of plugs. The coil gap is definitely a key issue and has been a big factor in improving starting in a number of engines. 

This is fro m my post on the Jab owners website:



We don't all put jump leads on our cars when it's cold. We should be able to go down to the airfield and start our planes on cold days.



I've been doing some work on this at Ludham based on the fact that G-Kevi 3300 starts nearly every time. 

Last week at -2C it wouldn't start. I suggested Kevin left it for ten mins and gave it another try. It started OK. So it's borderline, bit it is the best starting Jab we've ever come across. Only on one other -2C day in 4 years did it fail to start and on that occasion it started instantly with a jump, this was two years ago after a sustained cold spell.



G-CCYA (3300) has been a real bitch over the years but we are getting close. The main issue I think was the coil gaps made worse by the battery. Coil gaps need to be tight. We also had a charging issue caused by a wiring fault so we never had a good battery. These are resolved. Usual stuff about choke being fully on etc are no brainers so I won't go into any of that.



However, CCYA 3300 wouldn't start last week 0 C with a good battery and everything else OK. I know I've systematically checked and resolved everything it could be. So I opened up the carb and squirted in two syringes of fuel past the slide. Off she goes with the same battery that I'd done plenty of cranking on. have to carefully do nothing for a while else moving the choke and throttle and it stops but when warmed a bit (2 mins) she's away.



PH-GCJ is a 3300 engined Esqual, (#1460) it starts every time but stops after 2 secs (even at -2). Nothing can be done with it (mess with choke, throw throttle open etc) until it's warm enough to run at idle. This takes about 10 - 20 starts then if you let it run for about 2 or three minutes it can be revved up and choke closed.



If you read the Bing book it tells you about the starting carburettor and how there is a slug of fuel available to make the mixture very rich on the first crank. I would estimate this at 1/2 a teaspoon full. After this slug is used up the starting carburettor relies on fuel flow through a very small restrictor, less than ¼ of a mm.



Given that two syringes of fuel starts what we would all say it a dead Jabiru engine I think there is a serious mixture issue. Not half rich enough. 



I've had conversations with Roger and Gary (UK agents) about wet plugs....have you ever seen any? Why not, that non starting car or motorcycle would have had them wouldn't it?

One starting tip from ST is to put your hand over the carby and choke the air completely and crank, then with the resultant fuel that is dragged into the induction a troublesome engine will often start.



Does anyone know of a Jab with a primer system? If so how do they get on when we aren't wearing shorts?



Has anyone ever increased the size of the starting carburettor restrictor?



Can a few of you syringe fuel into your dead cold Jabiru engines and see if I'm right?



The starting carburettor fuel restrictor is set to match an engine, an engine that is test run in Australia....

That engine won't start on a cold day in the UK....

I'm suggesting a big issue is the mixture.

CJ



Then I was asked to explain how I got the fuel in and wrote this for those not intimate with the Bing:



Hi Howard, what I mean is;

Get yourself a syringe or an oil can with fuel in it. Or a length of plastic pipe.

Take the scat tube or cobra neck off the back of the carby. Open the throttle. Stick your finger in the back of the carby and lift the throttle slide up, then using what ever you have shoot the fuel through the carb into the induction manifold. I shot 20 mls in a 3300.



Close the throttle, open the choke and give it a start.



I'm not sure about the whys? Warming the engine up obviously helps as it's the cold that stops it. Damp, why is it damp?, it was running last night. I've never thought damp was an issue with any of the Ludham Jabs.



I think it's just too weak a mixture to fire under a British winter's conditions.

Regards, Clive



--

fly.lightning(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

If I had this problem (I just don't fly below 30 F), I would buy a 

radiant propane heater (one with a catalytic converter) with a 1-lb 

tank of propane and build something that would allow its heat to flow 

up into the cowling.



The heater would reheat the engine in 10 or 20 minutes, and it would 

probably be very effective.



The hair dryer I use on cold days works fine, but it needs electricity.



I suspect that if the problem wasn't solved before I left, it 

wouldn't have any simple solution at a remote strip.



Hugh Sontag

 	  Quote: 	
		  Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy 

struggle to get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant 

strip in the morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.  



Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity 

available.  Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air 

kerosene heater may all work, but you need some sparks.



What if you dont have electric?   What can you carry with you  in a 

Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery 

enough to spin it and start?  It doesn't have to be below zero for a 

Jab to be hard to start.



Doug





In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 

ryan(at)greenlandings.com writes:



Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are 

experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and 

right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone 

have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting 

out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if 

anyone has any bright ideas.



Ryan Gross

Green Landings Flight Center, Inc

SkyRanger Aircraft

Arion Lightning

304-754-6010





<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution

wb2ssj(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:19 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

I dont use thw  choke, I have a electric soliniod for the primer. With the 

fuel pump on I hold the solinoid for two seconds then turn the prop by hand 

about 4 blades. It then starts very easy.   Tex



---

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

That's great news Tex I was hoping someone had fitted a primer system as I am tempted to fit one to my Esqual. It's just not quite rich enough to stay running in the cooler periods.



Do you have cold enough temperatures to show an improved starting performance than folk who just have the 'choke' systems?



What is the lowest ambient that you can start you plane in?



Regards, Clive



--

pennington(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Hello Clive

 Thanks for the response. I agree with your theory that the choke system may  not be quite rich enough on cold mornings. The engine will start, but it takes a  while. On the other hand, after it is warmed up for the first time, it will fire  instantly any time thereafter. I love the engine, but like anything else in  life, nothing is perfect.

  

 Happy flying.

 Gary

 [quote]   ---

malannx(at)bigpond.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Evening Clive (and others),

  

 Excuse my belated response but I only subscribe to the list digest.

 Reading with interest your comments about hard starting Jabs in cold  weather a few comments.

 The Bing carby fitted to the Jabs has the same operating principle as the  ones fitted to the Rotaxen.

  

 Rotax had this problem many years ago and it was largely solved by  modifying the disc valve in the choke assembly housing. Until a modified one was  released the 3rd hole from the pointy end of the slot was drilled out to a  larger daim. of 1mm(if my ageing memory serve me right). 1mm is an  irrelevant size to the Jabs but the principle is the same. See page 8 of :   http://www.rotax-owner.com/si_tb_info/serviceinfo/si912012914014r1.pdf for  a diagram. Cost nothing to try but make sure you can get a new one before you  bugger up the old one.

  

 In the Rotax manual it specifically warns if you use any throttle or have  the idle speed set too high the choke circuit is de-activated. Very easy to  demonstrate.

  

 If the Jab will fire with a squirt of fuel without jumper leads then it is  a choke problem or idle speed set too high , not a jetting problem else it  would not run properly anyway. 

 If jumper leads get a start then it is an electrical problem. See Bob  Knuckolls publication available from him at his aeroelectric.com website to get  an understanding of the critical need to minimize resistance in the starter  circuit. He loves welding leads in the starter circuit.

  

 Unsure if the Jab has the following feature or not, but the Rotax ignition  system will not allow sparks if the starter motor cannot attain 300rpm approx  cranking speed. Then jumper leads get dusted off I guess.

  

 Clive all this bragging about weather, I often think of the gales and foul  weather you have to put up with and realize how good we have it. Hope you  finally have a win with those PFA blokes.

  

 Regards, Malcolm

   [quote][b]

dashvii(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:30 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

I have started in 20F with the Jabiru.  I was having issues starting and Pete K. told me to not push the throttle in at all.   When the choke is on C the throttle should be at idle.  I tried this and it fired right up.  They had some sort of engine heater that we used some days as well.  Brian W.Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.  [quote][b]

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:11 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

If you have a good warm idle set of around 800 to work form than you know your throttle plate will be in the correct position at idle. Your idle mixture should be about 1 ¼ turns out in the cold and a coil cap of 0.010…it is possible that it is a bigger gap and will start when warm but not really cold. Also if you have read the service bulletin from jabiru to move the engine ground strap to the long AN3 starter bolt than this should be accomplished too, adds a good deal of  revs to the starter. With the throttle closed and the choke completely on pull 6-10 blades thru and than get back in she should start. This used to work all the time in WI it pretty cold there.  

   

nick  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com

 Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 4:57 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Cold Weather Starting  

  

       

Ryan raises the issue of cold weather starting after a lengthy struggle to get a Lightning going that had been flown into a distant strip in the morning, then refused to start in the afternoon.     

    

   

    

Of course he knows how to do a preheat......if you have electricity available.  Tanis heater, 60 watt bulb, hair dryer, forced air kerosene heater may all work, but you need some sparks.  

    

   

    

What if you dont have electric?   What can you carry with you  in a Lightning that will heat both the oil and hopefully the battery enough to spin it and start?  It doesn't have to be below zero for a Jab to be hard to start.  

    

   

    

Doug  

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

   

    

In a message dated 1/16/2009 9:08:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ryan(at)greenlandings.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

Everyone seems to want to talk about the cold where we are experiencing in the US. We are located in the mid Atlantic area and right now outside temp are (08 F). Ok with that said, does anyone have a great idea how to start your engine when it has been sitting out on the ramp all day below freezing. Just looking to see if anyone has any bright ideas. 

     

  

Ryan Gross 

 Green Landings Flight Center, Inc 

 SkyRanger Aircraft 

 Arion Lightning 

 304-754-6010   	
  

    

   

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        [quote][b]

Clive J

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Further to Nick's tips. I think the starting mixture is one of the issues as I may have mentioned before. Not rich enough in some cases.



I've been looking at the carb and how the starting carburettor works. The hand pulling of the prop will, I think, pull fuel through such that you can build up an amount in the induction to have a rich starting point when you go for a crank. Will take some trial and error for your plane and the conditions maybe.

Don't go hell for leather. Just pull a few blades, wait then pull a few more , wait etc. 

The staring carburettor design allows a slug of fuel to build up after the flow restriction, you'll need the electric pump on to maintain the level in the bowl. The slug will be sucked out into the induction as you pull the blades. As you pause the slug in the partitioned part of the carb bowl will refill and can be sucked by the next couple of blades. 



The guys at my home field have now got up to 10 revolutions on a troublesome starter to get the thing rich enough to kick off. The extra hand propping seems to make the difference.



I'd be interested in hearing if this works for anyone else, that is if the amount of hand propping that you usually do wasn't any good.



Regards Clive

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pequeajim

Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 708
Location: New Holland, PA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: Cold Weather Starting

Not coming from someone with a lot of Jabiru experience, but this sounds a lot like how I would start my large RC engines, (100-200cc),  Choke and flip five times.  Choke and ignition on till the engine pops, then choke off and flip and viola!  Engine running.  In cold weather, we would leave the choke partially on till the engine started to show signs of running a little rich and then take it off.

   

  

 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:54 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Lightning-List message posted by: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)>

 

Further to Nick's tips. I think the starting mixture is one of the issues as I may have mentioned before. Not rich enough in some cases.



I've been looking at the carb and how the starting carburettor works. The hand pulling of the prop will, I think, pull fuel through such that you can build up an amount in the induction to have a rich starting point when you go for a crank. Will take some trial and error for your plane and the conditions maybe.

 Don't go hell for leather. Just pull a few blades, wait then pull a few more , wait etc.

The staring carburettor design allows a slug of fuel to build up after the flow restriction, you'll need the electric pump on to maintain the level in the bowl. The slug will be sucked out into the induction as you pull the blades. As you pause the slug in the partitioned part of the carb bowl will refill and can be sucked by the next couple of blades.

 

The guys at my home field have now got up to 10 revolutions on a troublesome starter to get the thing rich enough to kick off. The extra hand propping seems to make the difference.



I'd be interested in hearing if this works for anyone else, that is if the amount of hand propping that you usually do wasn't any good.

 

Regards Clive

 



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