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Cowling winterization plate

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jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

I need to do something to make my O-200 happier in the winter. I haven't

seen oil temperatures above 140 F since it got cold around here. that's

making me nervous about not boiling the condensation out of the oil.



The O-200, at least in the AMD Zodiac, does not have an oil cooler to cover

up. That means I need to restrict airflow through the cowling. I've spoken

to an owner in Crookston, Minnesota, and he recommended that I first make a

plate to cover the air exit from the bottom of the cowling, and then add

plates at the inlet only if that doesn't do enough. I've got no problems

with that plan in general. The question I have, however, is simple: How do I

attach the plate?



The forward end would need to attach somewhere inside the lower cowl,

forward of the opening. That's easily enough done: holes in the cowl itself,

and rivnuts in the plate. The fun comes in attaching the rear of the plate

to the firewall. Suggestions? More rivnuts at the bottom of the firewall

itself, or are there better ideas?

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

Hi Jay,



First, I would stay away from rivnuts.  They have a horrible 

reputation for spinning in their holes so you can't unfasten the 

screws later on.  If you feel you must use threaded fasteners, then 

you should learn about nut-plates or just use bolts and nuts.



You might do a lot better to use ordinary pulled rivets.  I suggest 

you practice a little at installing them and drilling them out when 

you want them to be gone.  To be consistent with the construction of 

the plane you should use Avex rivets (get a fellow Zenith builder to 

donate a handful of them - we all have lots of extras).  For 

something like these air baffles you would probably be ok with 

hardware store rivets.  Perhaps 1/8" aluminum short or medium length.



You might start with .025 or .016 6061-T6 sheet metal and drill first 

with #40 pilot drill and then line-drill with #30 for the 1/8" 

rivets.  (Line drilling is when you drill through both  connecting 

sheets at the same time.  This gets the holes perfectly lined up.)



I'd suggest leaving the firewall alone and using the skin behind the 

firewall for your new baffle attachment.



Good luck,



Paul

XL getting close

Good luck,



Paul



At 05:39 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I need to do something to make my O-200 happier in the winter. I haven't

seen oil temperatures above 140 F since it got cold around here. that's

making me nervous about not boiling the condensation out of the oil.



The O-200, at least in the AMD Zodiac, does not have an oil cooler to cover

up. That means I need to restrict airflow through the cowling. I've spoken

to an owner in Crookston, Minnesota, and he recommended that I first make a

plate to cover the air exit from the bottom of the cowling, and then add

plates at the inlet only if that doesn't do enough. I've got no problems

with that plan in general. The question I have, however, is simple: How do I

attach the plate?



The forward end would need to attach somewhere inside the lower cowl,

forward of the opening. That's easily enough done: holes in the cowl itself,

and rivnuts in the plate. The fun comes in attaching the rear of the plate

to the firewall. Suggestions? More rivnuts at the bottom of the firewall

itself, or are there better ideas?

--

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 06:17:53PM -0800, Sabrina wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The TCM manual allows you to run at 4 quarts of oil rather than 6.   That

 will increase your oil temp.


	


My engine likes to run about 4-1/2 quarts anyway...mor than that just gets

blown out the breather.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Steep climbs at full power will do the same.


	


That's how I'm getting up to 140. 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Modifying an S-LSA???s does not sound like the answer.


	


This is with permission of AMD; they want a drawing of whatever I come up

with so they can offer it as an option.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Another option: Royco has a flight ready preservative oil that fights the

 corrosion you are worried about.


	


That might not be a bad idea at all.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:11 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 06:46:21PM -0800, Sabrina wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Do you have CHT and EGT gauges?    What are they reading?


	


They're normal: CHTs in the mid to upper 200s, dropping below the 200 F

yellow line when I power back for maneuvers (I'm working on a CFI-SP); EGTs

are in the 1300s, and can easily be raised with a little leaning. It's just

the oil temperature that's worrying me.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Rather than closing off the exit, changing the lower cowl's lip will

 dramatically change the air flow.


	


True...but my goal is to have something that can easily be installed and

removed as necessary, similar to the winterization plates on other aircraft.

What would be really nice is if it had cowl flaps...

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

I've been trying to think of non-destructive ways to block off the 

air flow out of your cowl.

One idea is to take some sheet metal, or if you must poster-board, 

and tape it temporarily in place with good old duct tape.  You can 

cut a sheet to size and slide it into the cowl exit hole and then 

tape the front in place.  Then tape the back to the cabin floor.

This might not give a good final fix for your winter cooling issue, 

but it might lead to a good one.

Paul

XL getting close

At 07:11 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   > Rather than closing off the exit, changing the lower cowl's lip will

 > dramatically change the air flow.

True...but my goal is to have something that can easily be installed and

removed as necessary, similar to the winterization plates on other aircraft.

What would be really nice is if it had cowl flaps...

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:29 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 07:21:39PM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   One idea is to take some sheet metal, or if you must poster-board, and

 tape it temporarily in place with good old duct tape.  You can cut a sheet

 to size and slide it into the cowl exit hole and then tape the front in

 place.  Then tape the back to the cabin floor.


	


Cabin floor? The only thing at the back of the cowl exit is the firewall.

Still, you've hit on how I plan to dummy it up, although I plan to use

something besides duct tape that will come off without leaving a residue

behind. Ain't no way I'm gonna ever use duct tape on my airplane.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 07:30:03PM -0800, Sabrina wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   There is at least one oil sump blanket that is STC'd for the O-200A in

 flight.  Use that and then pre-heat your oil with a plug in dip stick

 heater that is removed before flight.


	


I've got a Tanis on my engine, and use it religiously when the temperature

is below 40 F. It includes an oil sump heater. Do you think blocking off the

sump alone will get the temperature back up?

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:40 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

If you do use any riv-nuts, what I do is to install them with loctite 262, 

or equilivant, around the head/O.D.  Has worked for me.

"............I would stay away from rivnuts.  They have a horrible

reputation for spinning in their holes so you can't unfasten the

screws later on.  If you feel you must use threaded fasteners, then

you should learn about nut-plates or just use bolts and 

nuts................"

Tony Graziano

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

Try 200 mph tape from Wal*Mart.  This is the stuff NASCAR racers use 

for the same sort of thing.  I also use a lot of it while building my 

XL.  It only looks like duct tape.  Duck brand is the best, in my 

opinion, and Wal*mart has it.  If there is any problem removing the 

adhesive, just use a little lacquer thinner on a rag to wipe it off.



The cabin floor is attached to the bottom of the fire wall.  This 

would be a nice place to tape the aft end of a sheet of metal to hold 

it in place for a test flight.



In no event would I drill holes in the firewall.  That is just asking 

for trouble - not to mention dull drill bits.



I was thinking two or three sheets taped in place in the corners and 

middle of the cowl exit hole would work well.  You can adjust the 

size of each piece to get the amount of cooling reduction you 

want.  After you have found a nice size opening to have for your own 

personal climate you can rivet some aluminum in the same place.

Paul

At 07:28 PM 1/16/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Cabin floor? The only thing at the back of the cowl exit is the firewall.

Still, you've hit on how I plan to dummy it up, although I plan to use

something besides duct tape that will come off without leaving a residue

behind. Ain't no way I'm gonna ever use duct tape on my airplane.

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:06 am Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

Only use lacquer thinner or acetone if the finish can take it...don't ask how I know these things...



David L. Downey

  Harleysville (SE) PA, USA



  

--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net>

Subject: Re: Re: Cowling winterization plate

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 10:43 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith601-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz <psm(at)att.net> ...If there is any problem removing the adhesive, just use a little lacquer thinner ona rag to wipe it off. 	
	


           [quote][b]

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:36 am Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

On Friday 16 January 2009 21:30, Sabrina wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 There is at least one oil sump blanket that is STC'd for the O-200A in

 flight.   Use that and then pre-heat your oil with a plug in dip stick

 heater that is removed before flight.



This is one of the issues we face during the relative infancy of the whole LSA 
	


thing. An STC applies to a type certificated configuration. Unless the O200A 

is being maintained and annualed by an IA, its type certification probably 

isn't being maintained.



If the O200A were installed on a type certificated aircraft, one could visit 

the question as to whether the sump blanket were type certificated for the 

engine installation on that specific aircraft. But it isn't, it's on an LSA, 

where the STC does not apply (an LSA doesn't have a type certificate).



What I'm saying is that I don't think the FAA's rules have as yet fully 

addressed this situation. I have a question(s) in to the FAA on this and 

related certification/maintenance subjects. I'm hoping I get something 

definitive enough to share.



Yes, that's probably a naive hope. 



=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager

=============================================

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

On Saturday 17 January 2009 11:29, Sabrina wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Jay has an S-LSA.



 I can't imagine AMD approving any appliance for the engine that has not

 been STC'd as to that engine.  Just their changing out the FAA-PMA spark

 plugs for Auto plugs required a lot of testing and analysis that Jay is not

 in the position to do re: a non-STC'd oil sump blanket.



 You are correct in pointing out that just because it is STC'd does not mean

 an IA or AP can install it on the S-LSA, only AMD can approve such an

 installation.  Their exhaust configuration my not allow for such an

 installation.



 It is different story for the airframe--they built it and could approve

 anything.


	


That is my point exactly. Any change to the LSA must come from the 

manufacturer, not from the FAA. We can't base our usage on approval from some 

other airworthiness system. The manufacturer can probably use that as a 

basis, if they so desire, but we can't.



 	  Quote: 	
		   Question, can Jay put oil additives in an S-LSA that are not on the

 approved list of lubricants from AMD?


	


My gut feeling is no, he cannot legally do so. But these are the exact kinds 

of questions I'm hoping to get the FAA to clarify.



It's very confusing to an IA/A&P. Although we sometimes curse the FAA for 

giving us too much of the wrong kind of guidance, it's probably worse not to 

have any guidance. I don't think we can really do much more in some cases 

than say that there is no approved procedure by the relevant airworthiness 

authority. In the case of Jay's additives, that would be the manufacturer of 

the LSA, AMD. If AMD didn't specifically approve it, I'd say it's not 

approved.



An example for certificated aircraft would be the use of a non-approved 

lubricant. For example, I've run into some who thought it was a really great 

idea to use Mouse Milk as an additive in certificated engines. I probably 

don't need to say that Mouse Milk is not on the approved list for any general 

aviation engine of which I am aware.



Our authority, such as it is, is derived from whoever controls the 

airworthiness for a given aircraft. I suspect many of us don't feel 

comfortable signing log book entries without an approved airworthiness basis 

for whatever was just done.



Once a year, there are nationwide training sessions for IA's, which are used 

as a basis for the continuance of our IA. One of the better ones is in the 

Dallas area. It covers questions IAs are having in the field: areas of 

conflicting guidance, and areas of no guidance. It also usually covers 

signifcant general aviation crashes of the year, and what really happened.



I submitted my questions about LSA maintenance and certification issues to the 

people who conduct that training session. I was told that they would try to 

create a session to address these issues, and clarify the FAA position. 

Assuming that happens, I'm going to request permission to make the LSA part 

of the presentation available to this list. 



And, if you are in the Dallas area, the seminar is open to all (but with a 

$100+ fee). I believe it's on Feb 28, this year. You can get details on it at 

ASOD.com. I've found that often the information is of broader interest to 

those maintaining their own aircraft than just IAs. 



But a word of caution: it starts at 0730 and ends around 1700. It's pretty 

cram-packed. The donuts are good, though!

-- 

=============================================

                Do not archive.

=============================================

                Jim B Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

     Retired aerospace technical manager

=============================================

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: Cowling winterization plate

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Right on, Paul---I used rivnuts for the forward upper skin, and, 78 rivnuts  leter, found that almost 1/4th of them spun. There;s a little protrusion on each  one that allegedly digs into the side of the hole and is supposed to hold it. It  don't. 78 nut plates later, a guy suggested dipping each rivnut in epoxy or  Proseal to keep them from spinning. Ah, yes, the sequence of life:

  

 1. You have a problem.

 2. You come up with a solution.

 3. It's the wrong solution.

 4. You correct the solution.

 5. Some guy comes along with an easier solution.

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 [quote]   ---

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