Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Leaky Prosealed Tank
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

All,

I've assembled my fuel tanks with proseal and rivets.  I put about 1/2 psi air in them and have a clear tygon tubing with red food dye attached to a door jamb as pressure indicator.   I pump air into the tank with a bicycle pump.   I raise the level of the fluid 13.8 inches to give my 1/2 psi and have a pointer to show where I stop adding air.  My problem is that I've tested 2 of the 4 wing tanks and they both leaked!    The first leaked down several inches in about 10 minutes and I was able to find the leak with sudsy water.   The second took an hour to leak down an inch and I haven't been able to find the leak.   I'm reluctant to put more pressure in the tanks.   Has anyone gone through this, and what was the solution to both finding and fixing the leaks?    I can't even get my hand through the filler, so applying more goo from inside seams impossible.   Solutions I've considered have been to cut a large access hole in the back of the tank, patch my leaks from inside then patch the access hole.   Another thought was form a U shaped bead of aluminum to wrap around the leaky joint, with plenty of proseal thus forming an fix from the outside.   But I still need to find the slow leak on tank #2.  

If I'm not clear about my methods I'm going to post some pictures on the web site: http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us

Dan Dempsey

fuelsender.jpg

Description:

here you can see the air valve

Filesize:

41.68 KB

Viewed:

702 Time(s)

leakdetect.jpg

Description:

My leak detector is just a water collumn

Filesize:

42.04 KB

Viewed:

680 Time(s)

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:07 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Dan, most of what I learned about this type of sorcery was from RV builders (web sites and matronics archives).

I remember reading about somebody using a syringe to inject proseal (?) and fix a leak.



Good luck

 

Carlos



2009/1/20 leinad <leinad(at)hughes.net (leinad(at)hughes.net)>

[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "leinad" <leinad(at)hughes.net (leinad(at)hughes.net)>

 

 All,

 I've assembled my fuel tanks with proseal and rivets.  I put about 1/2 psi air in them and have a clear tygon tubing with red food dye attached to a door jamb as pressure indicator.   I pump air into the tank with a bicycle pump.   I raise the level of the fluid 13.8 inches to give my 1/2 psi and have a pointer to show where I stop adding air.  My problem is that I've tested 2 of the 4 wing tanks and they both leaked!    The first leaked down several inches in about 10 minutes and I was able to find the leak with sudsy water.   The second took an hour to leak down an inch and I haven't been able to find the leak.   I'm reluctant to put more pressure in the tanks.   Has anyone gone through this, and what was the solution to both finding and fixing the leaks?    I can't even get my hand through the filler, so applying more goo from inside seams impossible.   Solutions I've considered have been to cut a large access hole in the back of the tank, patch my leaks from inside then !

   patch the access hole.   Another thought was form a U shaped bead of aluminum to wrap around the leaky joint, with plenty of proseal thus forming an fix from the outside.   But I still need to find the slow leak on tank #2.

  If I'm not clear about my methods I'm going to post some pictures on the web site: http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us

 Dan Dempsey

 

 --------

 Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=225925#225925

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuelsender_730.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/leakdetect_805.jpg

 

 

 

 [b]

tonyplane(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

May not have a leak in #2 .  Make sure  your temp is stable

 If I remember correctly, PV=rT.   Pressure X Volume = gas constant X absolute Temp

 [quote]   ---

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Dan, I went through much the same problem, with leaks that weren't  "authorized". I cut about a 6-inch hole where the filler was, and went in by  hand through that hole. Then I mounted the filler on a larger plate, pro-sealed  between the tank and my "access plate", then drilled and rivetted (dip the  rivets in proseal) to close the tanks. By the way, water is frowned upon in  tanks. There's a risk of corrosion on the fuel sender. (don't ask how I  know). I used a couple of gallons of diesel, and held the tank in different  positions to check for leaks. Actually, proseal is tough enough that you might  be able to slop it on externally, and stop a small leak.

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 [quote]   ---

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Paul,

Thanks for the guidance.  Sounds like you did one of the ideas I've been contemplating.  Now if I can find the leak in tank #2.

Tony,

Thanks, but it's not temperature.  This can be proved by putting the air back in the tank.  The indicator always goes down, never back up.

I have more photos up now at:

http://daniel.dempseyfamily.us/zodiac/fuel/index.html

Dan



[quote="paulrod36(at)msn.com"]<xml><xml><endif>  Dan, I went through much the same problem, with leaks that weren't  "authorized". I cut about a 6-inch hole where the filler was, and went in by  hand through that hole. Then I mounted the filler on a larger plate, pro-sealed  between the tank and my "access plate", then drilled and rivetted (dip the  rivets in proseal) to close the tanks. By the way, water is frowned upon in  tanks. There's a risk of corrosion on the fuel sender. (don't ask how I  know). I used a couple of gallons of diesel, and held the tank in different  positions to check for leaks. Actually, proseal is tough enough that you might  be able to slop it on externally, and stop a small leak.

  

 Paul Rodriguez

  	  Quote: 	
		     ---

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

Trainnut01(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Dan

  

 When I built my RV I had to cut a hole in the back of one of the tanks to seal a leaky joint. I was really easy to do. (After I got the tank out.)

  

 Carroll

  

 XLVair



Inauguration '09: Get 

  [quote][b]

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:38 am Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Proseal has a  gun with a long hose to get  into fuel tanks.  We have used it on many certified aircraft tanks.   You wont like the price but it in Aircraft Spruce catalog....

  

 SW

 [quote]   ---

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Dan, mix up some proseal and thin it with MEK. Get a thin tube , suck some in, direct it inside the tank to the offending area and blow. Do it several times if necessary. More proseal is almost always better than less. Best of  luck, Bill  

 

 

 --

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Slosh your tanks with Kreem Weiss. I have used it a few times and works like a charm. Fixes plastic tanks or metal. Easy to use. I had a leak in my fuel tank after 2 years. Sloshed it with Kreem Weiss and it was gone. Flight Design uses it in every plane. That's what guys use in old rusty car fuel tanks or motorcycle tanks. It's like a gray epoxy that sticks to anything.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

notsew_evets(at)frontiern
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:44 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

So if I empty my right tank.  Fill the left tank with gas.

Put Kreem Weiss in the empty right tank.  Go fly and do a few loops, the 

tank will be sealed.

I got it.....

---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

NO!  to be sure is sealed, you need also to do some barrels,  a  couple of hammerheads  and a couple of Lomcevaks

           

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower

 Do not archive.



--- On Wed, 1/21/09, steve <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:



 [quote]From: steve <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net>

Subject: Re: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 8:41 PM



[quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "steve" <notsew_evets(at)frontiernet.net>  So if I empty my right tank.  Fill the left tank with gas. Put Kreem Weiss in the empty right tank.  Go fly and do a few loops, the tank will be sealed. I got it..... ---

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Piece of cake. 

I pulled my wing on a Flight Design and poured it in rotated the wing (left and right, up and down on the ends) and set it on a couple of sawhorses. Done. 

I sloshed it twice to be sure. 

Better than having a leak or even better, not having to bother to hunt for one.

It's used world wide for sealing all kinds of tanks.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Do not slosh your tanks

  

 I have seen some RV's that have sloshed tanks and the slosh WILL flake over  time. I saw the pics of the tanks and don't see much pro seal on the outside. I  would cover every rivet and not want to see any seams from the outside. More  than likely you are leaking from a rivet and you need to cover them.

  

 Jeff

  

  

 Piece of cake. 

I pulled my wing on a Flight Design and poured it in  rotated the wing (left and right, up and down on the ends) and set it on a  couple of sawhorses. Done. 

I sloshed it twice to be sure. 

Better than  having a leak or even better, not having to bother to hunt for one.

It's used  world wide for sealing all kinds of tanks.

 

  

 A Good Credit Score is 7001028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

hills(at)sunflower.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Ya, I built a couple of RV tanks, and the word is that if you don’t clean the tanks of all oils and other contaminates first, the slosh may come off later and clog your fuel filter and cause the engine to stop….  

   

I don’t think Vans recommends sloshing anymore because of the problems.  

   

Proseal will never come off, even if you want it to later (don’t ask me how I know)  

   

Roger  

         

  

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com

 Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:57 AM

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank  

  

       

Do not slosh your tanks  

    

   

    

I have seen some RV's that have sloshed tanks and the slosh WILL flake over time. I saw the pics of the tanks and don't see much pro seal on the outside. I would cover every rivet and not want to see any seams from the outside. More than likely you are leaking from a rivet and you need to cover them.  

    

   

    

Jeff  

    

   

    

   

    

Piece of cake. 

 I pulled my wing on a Flight Design and poured it in rotated the wing (left and right, up and down on the ends) and set it on a couple of sawhorses. Done. 

 I sloshed it twice to be sure. 

 Better than having a leak or even better, not having to bother to hunt for one.

 It's used world wide for sealing all kinds of tanks.  

  

    

   

  

       

  

A Good Credit Score is 7001028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
1 	  Quote: 	
		   	
2 	  Quote: 	
		   	
3 	  Quote: 	
		   	
4 	  Quote: 	
		   	
5 	  Quote: 	
		   	
6 	  Quote: 	
		   	
7 	  Quote: 	
		   	
8 	  Quote: 	
		   	
9

        [quote][b]

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Kreem Weiss will not flake or come off if you do it right and it's just too easy to do it right. If you could look into a Flight Design tank near where you live, you would see why it doesn't flake. It becomes the tank. Hard as a rock. Use Kreem Weiss not some other cheaper brand.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

One word of caution,  get the fingerscreen off the tank and plug the outlet before starting the procedure, with the fingerscreen sealed, no gas will com out.

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower.



--- On Wed, 1/21/09, Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 11:48 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Lee"

<ssadiver1(at)yahoo.com>



Piece of cake. 

I pulled my wing on a Flight Design and poured it in rotated the wing (left and

right, up and down on the ends) and set it on a couple of sawhorses. Done. 

I sloshed it twice to be sure. 

Better than having a leak or even better, not having to bother to hunt for one.

It's used world wide for sealing all kinds of tanks.



--------

Roger Lee

Tucson, Az.

Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated

Rotax Service Center

520-574-1080





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 26129#226129





	
	


         [quote][b]

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

A follow up to my leaky tanks post

Two of my 4 tanks leaked.  One leaked on the front seam in 2 spots.  The other leaked around one of the threaded fittings.  Rather than using a sloshing agent I tried the following.  



The leak at the threaded fitting was right in a corner that I packed with proseal mixed with a little bit of fiber glass.  This was done on the outside of the tank.  There were lots of rivets shop ends poking out for the proseal to grap onto.



The other one was on the long straight seam.  I bent up a U from 5052 aluminum and after removing the rivets from the leaky area I wrapped the seam with this U and drilled it to use the same rivet holes.  Next I stuffed the U with proseal, hammered it on with a mallet and set the rivets.   I should know late tomorrow if this worked.



Here's a picture of the patch.

Dan Dempsey

patch.jpg

Description:

Here's the patch just before drilling

Filesize:

75.03 KB

Viewed:

681 Time(s)

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:14 am Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

Just a final word on this thread.  Both the patches worked, so I'm finished with the tanks until installation time.  Thanks to those who responded.

Dan



 	  leinad wrote: 	
		  A follow up to my leaky tanks post

Two of my 4 tanks leaked.  One leaked on the front seam in 2 spots.  The other leaked around one of the threaded fittings.  Rather than using a sloshing agent I tried the following.  



The leak at the threaded fitting was right in a corner that I packed with proseal mixed with a little bit of fiber glass.  This was done on the outside of the tank.  There were lots of rivets shop ends poking out for the proseal to grap onto.



The other one was on the long straight seam.  I bent up a U from 5052 aluminum and after removing the rivets from the leaky area I wrapped the seam with this U and drilled it to use the same rivet holes.  Next I stuffed the U with proseal, hammered it on with a mallet and set the rivets.   I should know late tomorrow if this worked.



Here's a picture of the patch.

Dan Dempsey

_________________
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

How about submerging the entire tank in water while it's pressurized and look for leaks, like they do with car tires at your local Tire World?



I'm just about to test one of my tanks (welded) and I think I'll do it that way myself.

William Dominguez

Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: Leaky Prosealed Tank

That should work too but the soapy water worked very well for me and is simpler to do. I weight 150 pounds and I would have a hard time submerging 15 gallons of air in a tank of water, it might even float with me standing on top.



If you pressurize your tank using a balloons you might have to leave the balloon out of the water connected to the fitting via a hose.



William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

http://geocities.com/bill_dom



--- On Wed, 2/18/09, ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org>

Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Leaky Prosealed Tank

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, February 18, 2009, 10:54 AM



-->  Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <[url=/mc/compose?to=ashontz(at)nbme.org]ashontz(at)nbme.org[/url]>



How about submerging the entire tank in water while it's pressurized and look for leaks, like they do with car tires at your local Tire World?



I'm just about to test one of my tanks (welded) and I think I'll do it that way myself.



--------

Andy Shontz



do not archive



CH601XL - Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/ashontz





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.cosp; --> http========================http://www.matronics.com/contributio==============





	
  [quote][b]

_________________
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum