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Landing gear in correct position???

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dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Hi!

 I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove  Type) landing gear is in correct position.

 with this configuration, could be dangerous to  land?

 Photos attached.

 Tks

  

  

 Francisco Drovetta

Kitfox IV "brazilian version"  with Cont O-200

São Paulo, SP

 Brazil

  

 www.dcubj3.com.br

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clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Hi C That Kitfox looks like the Model IV-1050.  Is that correct C and how much does it weigh?

  

 Clint



   

 From: dcubj3(at)terra.com.br

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing gear in correct position???

Date: Sat C 17 Jan 2009 21:15:48 -0200

    Hi!

 I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.

 with this configuration C could be dangerous to land?

 Photos attached.

 Tks

  

  

 Francisco Drovetta

Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200

São Paulo C SP

 Brazil

  

 www.dcubj3.com.br

  

 

 

  [quote][b]

dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Mr. Clint

 Empty Weight: 882 lb.

  

 Tks

  

  Francisco Drovetta

Kitfox IV "brazilian version"  with Cont O-200

São Paulo, SP

 Brazil

  

 www.dcubj3.com.br



  

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

WOW, it looks too far rearward to me. Have you weighed it yet? Have  

you flown it yet? With an O-200 in there it looks to me like it would  

be WAY heavy on the main wheels, but somebody with more O-200  

experience could help more than me, but I'm pretty sure it's too far  

to the rear. You are using the 2nd and 3rd float brackets, and it  

looks like the 1st brackets are gone. That may have something to do  

with the "Brazilian Version" but it looks strange to me. It almost  

looks like the Grove gear was installed with the idea that it was  

going to be a nose-gear plane.



I would have to say, yes, it looks dangerous to land. How hard is it  

to lift the tailwheel by hand?



VERY nice-looking plane otherwise...beautiful!



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Jan 17, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Francisco Drovetta wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi!

 I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear  

 is in correct position.

 with this configuration, could be dangerous to land?

 Photos attached.

 Tks

 Francisco Drovetta

 Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200

 São Paulo, SP

 Brazil



 www.dcubj3.com.br



 <Cópia (2) de Cópia de DSC06741.JPG>

 <Cópia (3) de Cópia de DSC06738.JPG>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

clint_bazzill(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Lookint at the picture again C must be a Series 5.  Single brace to Horiz stab. Clint  From: dcubj3(at)terra.com.br

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position???

Date: Sat C 17 Jan 2009 22:44:14 -0200

  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}   Mr. Clint

 Empty Weight: 882 lb.

 Tks

  Francisco Drovetta

Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200

São Paulo C SP

 Brazil

 www.dcubj3.com.br

 [quote] ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Really? I thought if might be even earlier than a IV because of the  

short fin and rudder....looks short to me, anyway. Maybe the reg  

number of -KFV is a clue...Kit  Fox V?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Jan 17, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:



[quote] Lookint at the picture again, must be a Series 5.  Single brace to  

 Horiz stab. ClintFrom: dcubj3(at)terra.com.br

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position???

 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:44:14 -0200



 Mr. Clint

 Empty Weight: 882 lb.



 Tks



 Francisco Drovetta

 Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200

 São Paulo, SP

 Brazil



 www.dcubj3.com.br



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position???

 	  Quote: 	
		  Iï¿½d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position. 

with this configuration, could be dangerous to land? 

Photos attached. 

Tks 

Francisco Drovetta 	




Francisco, It is difficult to tell from the picture.  It looks like the main wheels would be several inches behind the wing leading edge if the plane was leveled for weighing?  It also appears the nose is longer than a stock model 4.



What is the measurement from wing leading edge to the prop?



If you could also tell us the weights and arms you recorded for weight and balance it would give someone something to compare too.



As is it looks to be easy to nose over if brakes are used very hard.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Jimz

Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 31

Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Francisco

 On my series 5 the distance from the back of the gear leg to the center of  the strut attachment bracket hole is 29 1/4 inches. I hope this is useful.

 Jim series 5 0-200 under const.

 Lake Elmo MN 21D

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

On my IV, the distance from the center of the strut attachment hole  

to the leading edge of the Grove gear is 30 inches. The Grove gear  

attachment brackets on the Model IV utilize the front two pairs of  

float brackets on each side....the rear two pair are not used for  

landing gear on my plane. It looks like Francisco's gear is mounted  

too far back, but that's just my opinion.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Jan 17, 2009, at 11:52 PM, Zimmermans wrote:



[quote] Francisco

 On my series 5 the distance from the back of the gear leg to the  

 center of the strut attachment bracket hole is 29 1/4 inches. I  

 hope this is useful.

 Jim series 5 0-200 under const.

 Lake Elmo MN 21D

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:11 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

 	  Quote: 	
		  From what I can see of Francisco's airplane (very nice, might I add), it 

appears to have some features of a model 5.  Take a close look at the 
	


horizontal stab.  Not only will you see the single strut, but you'll see 

where the front edge of the horizontal stab has the slots in the cover for 

the stab workings so the horizontal stab leading edge can move up and down 

with the trim which is typical of a 5.  The vertical stab looks a bit small 

for a 5, but that may be an illusion.    The doors don't appear to be 

typical of a 5, but more of a 4, but difficult to tell in the photos.  If it 

is a model 5, then it would also have had the grove gear mount attach points 

welded in to the fuselage near the leading edge of the seat.  At least 

that's how mine came from the factory.  Something is definitely puzzling 

about it and yes, the gear does appear to be too far back, but again, maybe 

just an illusion.

Pretty much all in life is but an illusion.  Everything is just what people 

tell you it is.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert

---

dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Tks a lot Mr. Tom

I will send you this information to know to compare.

FD

---

dcubj3(at)terra.com.br
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:41 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Tks a lot Mr. Lynn.

Very useful information.

To lift tailwheel by hand is not hard, but the plane is balanced.

FD



---

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Landing gear in correct position???

Francisco's kitfox is scratch built.  Check his web site link under his signature on the first post for some detailed information.  Here's the direct link to the Kitfox 4 section in case you can't read the language.

http://www.dcubj3.com.br/v1/Galeria/01Fuselagem/index.htm

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Thanks, Tom.  That answers a lot of questions.

Deke



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Deke-

I find it hard to be an illusion when the shot is straight onto the  

side of the plane...unless it's been altered (Photoshop is funny  

stuff). What we have to remember is that the plane is admittedly a  

"Brazilian version" by his own admission.

I just looked at my plane's profile and it is nothing like  

Francisco's in the area of the tail.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive

On Jan 18, 2009, at 11:10 AM, fox5flyer wrote:

[quote] 

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>

> From what I can see of Francisco's airplane (very nice, might I  

> add), it

 appears to have some features of a model 5.  Take a close look at  

 the horizontal stab.  Not only will you see the single strut, but  

 you'll see where the front edge of the horizontal stab has the  

 slots in the cover for the stab workings so the horizontal stab  

 leading edge can move up and down with the trim which is typical of  

 a 5.  The vertical stab looks a bit small for a 5, but that may be  

 an illusion.    The doors don't appear to be typical of a 5, but  

 more of a 4, but difficult to tell in the photos.  If it is a model  

 5, then it would also have had the grove gear mount attach points  

 welded in to the fuselage near the leading edge of the seat.  At  

 least that's how mine came from the factory.  Something is  

 definitely puzzling about it and yes, the gear does appear to be  

 too far back, but again, maybe just an illusion.

 Pretty much all in life is but an illusion.  Everything is just  

 what people tell you it is.

 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT

 "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  

 progress."

 - Joseph Joubert

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

I had a look at all the pictures Fancisco had on the website...  Boy was I

impressed!  With the space, the cleanliness and the manner in which

everything was done.  I'll bet they have built more than the one plane

there.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

jdmcbean(at)kitfoxaircraf
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Francisco,  

                Knowing that is not a Kitfox… and therefore do not know what exceptions you have accounted for.  That is not the correct position for the gear on the Kitfox current or previous models.  

   

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Francisco Drovetta

 Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:16 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Landing gear in correct position???  

  

  

     

Hi!  

    

I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.  

    

with this configuration, could be dangerous to land?  

    

Photos attached.  

    

Tks  

    

   

    

   

    

Francisco Drovetta

 Kitfox IV "brazilian version" with Cont O-200

 São Paulo, SP  

    

Brazil  

    

   

    

www.dcubj3.com.br  

    

   

    



    

  

       [quote][b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

At 03:15 PM 1/17/2009, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I´d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove Type) landing gear is in correct position.

 with this configuration, could be dangerous to land? 	


 Francisco,

         Sad to say it does appear that your landing gear are further aft than is typical with Grove gear. However, the only thing that matters are the numbers. My plane has its axle 1.875" (48mm) behind the leading edge when in the measurement configuration, which means the lower door sill / fuselage bottom is horizontal, and the plane is "empty". When in that configuration, 7.3% of the weight is on the tail wheel. (The tail wheel is 163" (4140mm) behind the leading edge.) Also in that configuration my CG is 13.68" (347mm) behind the leading edge. Let us know how that compares to yours.



 

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.    [quote][b]

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Agreed, Lynn.  I had to take several "second looks" as things just didn't

seem right.  Hopefully his weight and balance is OK.  If not, I'd be afraid

go put the breaks on during landing.  Sure is a nice looking airplane

though.

Deke

Snowing in NE MI

---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Landing gear in correct position???

Look again at the transition from the top of fuselage where it curves  

up to the (larger IV) fin...the radius is smaller, and the fin is  

shorter, than my IV.

Of course, it's already been established that it's not your normal  

Stateside Kitfox IV, so I guess we're just rehashing old  

stuff....wanna talk about tailwheels? : )



Yeah, I'm with you Deke, I wouldn't want to fly it until I was  

absolutely certain it was within the spec'd weight and balance, and  

just from the looks, I'd doubt it, unless there's a TON in the tail.  

You've got a long moment in front of the mains, therefore a shorter  

moment (it would seem) to the tail, so I don't see how it could be  

within specs.



Good weather here, skis back on, oil changed, waiting for clear  

weather for the Oshkosh trip.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Jan 18, 2009, at 2:42 PM, D. Morisse wrote:



[quote] 

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Agreed, Lynn.  I had to take several "second looks" as things just  

 didn't

 seem right.  Hopefully his weight and balance is OK.  If not, I'd  

 be afraid

 go put the breaks on during landing.  Sure is a nice looking airplane

 though.

 Deke

 Snowing in NE MI

 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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