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Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

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rsteele(at)rjsit.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

This is very interesting.  Where do these numbers come from (the

additional 25lbs)?  I know I'm not alone it trying to find COMPARABLE

weights of engine installations .  You'd think it was classified

information.  What exactly is included in this extra weight?



Ron

BTW, your 68 kg (about 140 pounds) for the Rotax ignores some required

extra

equipment that brings the real powerplant weight up to closer to 165 or

so.

Yes, there's a difference, but it's not as much as Rotax advocates

claim.

MHerder

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 143
Location: Fort Worth TX

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

It really is interesting how difficult it is to find different weights for similar installations.



Every manufacturer seems to quote their weights different, dry, wet, with accessories, without, with exhaust ,without etc.  With coolant ,without.  I also would love to know some real "useful" information regarding weights without playing the games that various manufacturers like to play.



Jab 3300 ready to fly real weight, wet, with exhaust,=x #

Cont 200 "       "

Jab 2200 "     "

Lyc 235   "     "

Rotax 912 "    "



Not that it's difficult to add up yourself...  Its just a pain.  Walking around and trying to talk to manufacaturers at Oshkosh and find out realistic weights feels like haggling a car deal to me.  "Oh you want wheels with that?"

_________________
Zodiac 601 HD
Jabiru 3300
Wood Sensinich 64x47
Finally Flying

ronpollock(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:37 pm Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

If the airframe doesn't vary that much would it be reasonable to

subtract that from an aircraft's total weight? Then everything left is

the firewall forward weights that we'd like to compare to. Minus gas

of course. And the prop weight should be known.



Ron in L.A.



On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:18 PM, MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 It really is interesting how difficult it is to find different weights for similar installations.



 Every manufacturer seems to quote their weights different, dry, wet, with accessories, without, with exhaust ,without etc.  With coolant ,without.  I also would love to know some real "useful" information regarding weights without playing the games that various manufacturers like to play.



 Jab 3300 ready to fly real weight, wet, with exhaust,=x #

 Cont 200 "       "

 Jab 2200 "     "

 Lyc 235   "     "

 Rotax 912 "    "



 Not that it's difficult to add up yourself...  Its just a pain.  Walking around and trying to talk to manufacaturers at Oshkosh and find out realistic weights feels like haggling a car deal to me.  "Oh you want wheels with that?"



 --------

 One Rivet at a Time!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 26031#226031

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

If it's any use, I have just weighed my 601XL, It's not yet painted, but 

apart from that, it's complete.



Jab 3300, wheel spats, Landing light, Strobes, Dual brakes/sticks. 

Instrument fit is Dynon100 and 120 etc.



It came out at dead on 700Lbs.



Dave Johnson

(still grounded!!)



do not archive



---

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

Ron.

 

 The first word of your post is diagnostic (that big "IF"). The weight of completed Zodiac 601XL airframes do vary - a LOT !  I know specifically of several XLs, with WW Corvair engines and none weigh the same, varying around 100 lbs, lightest to heaviest.  In this case, the Corvair engine is the constant, not the airframe. 

 

 Jay in Dallas

 Do not archive

 

   

 

   

 

 --

Terry Phillips

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

One thing to do is to go to the 601XL spec page



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/specification.html



There you find (hopefully) comparable data for the empty weights of Zodiacs 

with the Jabiru 3300A, the Rotax 912, and the Lycoming O-235, of 695, 690, 

and 800 lbs respectively.



Before I bought my kit, I asked either ZAC or JabiruUSA why these weights 

did not reflect the engine manufacturer's data for the engine weights. I 

was told that the engine manufacturer's numbers did not necessarily include 

all the peripheral items that are necessary for the complete installation.



Terry

At 11:38 AM 1/21/2009 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  This is very interesting.  Where do these numbers come from (the

additional 25lbs)?  I know I'm not alone it trying to find COMPARABLE

weights of engine installations .  You'd think it was classified

information.  What exactly is included in this extra weight?



Ron

BTW, your 68 kg (about 140 pounds) for the Rotax ignores some required

extra

equipment that brings the real powerplant weight up to closer to 165 or

so.

Yes, there's a difference, but it's not as much as Rotax advocates

claim.


	




Terry Phillips  ZBAGer

ttp44~at~rkymtn.net

Corvallis MT

601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons 

are done; working on the wings

http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/

_________________
Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings.

jmaynard

Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 394
Location: Fairmont, MN (FRM)

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:38:08AM -0700, rsteele(at)rjsit.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   This is very interesting.  Where do these numbers come from (the

 additional 25lbs)?  I know I'm not alone it trying to find COMPARABLE

 weights of engine installations .  You'd think it was classified

 information.  What exactly is included in this extra weight?


	


Radiator, coolamt, and associated plumbing.

-- 

Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI      http://www.conmicro.com

http://jmaynard.livejournal.com       http://www.tronguy.net

Fairmont, MN (KFRM)                        (Yes, that's me!)

AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml

_________________
Jay Maynard, K5ZC
AMD Zodiac XLi N55ZC

rans6andrew

Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Berks, UK

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

the table of aircraft weights on the page 



http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/specification.html



has some er... errors in it.  The empty weights of the Jab and 912ULS are only 5Lbs different and yet they are given as 6Kg different.  6Kg is 13Lbs!



They just don't add up.



Andrew.

_________________
A good way through building a 601UL with 912UL.
Still flying Rans S6 with 503.

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

There are two simple questions that men will never get a straight answer ever:

  

 Homebuilt engines real  weight an power   and women age...      

  

 Saludos

 Gary  Gower

 Do not archive.



--- On Wed, 1/21/09, MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: MHerder <michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>

Subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, January 21, 2009, 3:18 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "MHerder"

<michaelherder(at)beckgroup.com>



It really is interesting how difficult it is to find different weights for

similar installations.



Every manufacturer seems to quote their weights different, dry, wet, with

accessories, without, with exhaust ,without etc.  With coolant ,without.  I also

would love to know some real "useful" information regarding weights

without playing the games that various manufacturers like to play.



Jab 3300 ready to fly real weight, wet, with exhaust,=x #

Cont 200 "       "

Jab 2200 "     "

Lyc 235   "     "

Rotax 912 "    "



Not that it's difficult to add up yourself...  Its just a pain.  Walking

around and trying to talk to manufacaturers at Oshkosh and find out realistic

weights feels like haggling a car deal to me.  "Oh you want wheels with

that?"



--------

One Rivet at a Time!





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 26031#226031





	
	


           [quote][b]

K Dilks

Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:50 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

Hi all,

 I have to chip in with a little reality check on this topic.

 I worked for three years in France for the Rotax dealer there.

   The system is that the lanes for ULM ( microlight)  must have a empty weight of 450 kg or 475 with a BRS fitted.

 Now here is the punch line . The planes are NOT weighed , you just sign a declaration that states you comply. No inspection of the craft is made ONLY this declaration and you get registration.

 Hence Zodiacs , Sting Carbons, and virtually all designes in this catagory are more than this limit.

 We had a Sting Carbon retratable gear in the shop with every thing on it , Full IFR kit , pitot heat , second generator the list was endless. When i could not push it in our hanger on my own I asked the owner how much it weighed and he just laughed. So when he went out we weighed it at 410KG wet ! He then said the empty figure was about 375 and could he have some fuel to fill it up ...................Rotax engine too.

 My point is that in the UK the really weight the planes but Im not so sure the REAL weight is on the documents in many European countries.

  All the planes that live in Belgium have French registrations ( ULM) .....as the process is so easy.

  This was also the case with the Belgium Zodiac dealer we did work for , he said that its better to be a bit heavy  and safe ...... as he new all the Zodiacs were a bit porky.

  Why the UK XL is limited to 560 kg ?? is this because they are from CZAW  as my plans state 590 and that is what I shall enter on the paperwork.

 Cheers!

Kev

_________________
Back home .................

david_a_g_johnson(at)btin
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:28 am Post subject: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

The breakdown was:-



Right   209

Left     221

Nose   270

I should have mentioned that, as this is a CZAW kit, I have the composite 

legs (or at least the 'plane has!) which save quite a bit of weight, I would 

guess about 25Lbs.



Dave Johnson



---

alex_001

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 61

Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

WR	109.0

WL	109.0

WN	105.0

Leergewicht in kg	323.0



all in kg  rotax912uls brs radio transponder gps full analog instruments airbox, heater, y stick, ap navaid, strobes, landinglight, BRS, position lights, wheelfairings



2007 czaw 601xl

i checked the weight last week

scales.JPG

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rans6andrew

Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Berks, UK

Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

alex,



did you set the aircraft level (spirit level on cockpit side rails etc) and close the canopy before reading the scales?



Overall weight will be spot on but calculated CofG will be off if you didn't.



Andrew.

_________________
A good way through building a 601UL with 912UL.
Still flying Rans S6 with 503.

alex_001

Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 61

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Weight (from Dutch XL thread)

all done and similar fig as when new and collected with w&b sheet

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