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RV9- Light Sport

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pdn8r(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Saw an RV-9A being promoted as a Light Sport at the Sebring Light Sport Expo.  The plane had a Lyc. 0-235.  The numbers don't seem to add up to qualifying as an LSA.  Anybody seen this?  Doesn't seem to leave much room for payload.



Bill Pagan  EAA Tech Counselor #4395

601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)

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BobCollins

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Sunnyvale CA USA

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Bill,



I believe that Van is promoting his new RV-12 as an LSA. Certainly not 

the RV-9.



Bob Collins

Sunnyvale CA USA

Bill Pagan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Saw an RV-9A being promoted as a Light Sport at the Sebring Light 

 Sport Expo.  The plane had a Lyc. 0-235.  The numbers don't seem to 

 add up to qualifying as an LSA.  Anybody seen this?  Doesn't seem to 

 leave much room for payload.



 Bill Pagan

 EAA Tech Counselor #4395

 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

mcjon77

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Chicago

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

Yep,



There was a bit of controversy about this bird on the vansairforce.com forum. The planes stated empty weight is 903lbs, so that gives him a 417 lb useful load. He had to over-pitch the prop to keep the speed low.  No wheel pants or fairings either.  



With 2 FAA sized folks you can carry a little less than 13 gal of fuel for an engine that burns about 6+ gal an hour You get all of the RV costs, but none of the performance.  Personally, I think he crippled a beautiful bird.  Why anyone would do this is beyond me, but hey it is experimental aviation. 



Jon



P.S.  I would really like to see what that plane weighs when measured with some aircraft scales

psm(at)ATT.NET
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Hi Bill,



I just did a quick review of the RV-9A on Van's web site.  It doesn't 

even seem close to an LSA.



Gross weight is around 1750,

Minimum engine 118 Hp gives 165 mph cruise (give or take)

empty weight over 1000 lbs

36 gallons of fuel.



Somebody is really stretching the point.  Maybe they just were trying 

to fit in at the LSA show.



Paul

XL getting close

do not archive

At 03:35 PM 1/24/2009, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Saw an RV-9A being promoted as a Light Sport at the Sebring Light 

Sport Expo.  The plane had a Lyc. 0-235.  The numbers don't seem to 

add up to qualifying as an LSA.  Anybody seen this?  Doesn't seem to 

leave much room for payload.

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

The guy is really pushing the reg. If he ever is violated it will be an interesting test case.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

special4

Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 28

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

Hi Bill, Paul & Gig,



Check the website www.liteplane.com... This guy has a modified RV-9 ELSA.!



Peter

Zodiac 650

_________________
Sportsflyer

jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:05 am Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Has Van's produced an LSA RV9A ?  If not, there can NOT be an ELSA RV9A., website or not.

 

 Jay Bannister

 

   

 

 --

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

 	  special4 wrote: 	
		  Hi Bill, Paul & Gig,



Check the website www.liteplane.com... This guy has a modified RV-9 ELSA.!



Peter

Zodiac 650 	




That aircraft received its certificate 02/01/2008. Which I believe was right before the deadline for aircraft to be registered under as E-LSA without conforming to a factory built S-LSA plans.



This also allows him to train with it until some time in 2010. This guy is just begging to be violated.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

If this particular RV-9 was registered under the "fat ultralight"  

clause before the deadline, it very well could be an E-LSA.



On Jan 25, 2009, at 11:03 AM, jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Has Van's produced an LSA RV9A ?  If not, there can NOT be an ELSA  

 RV9A., website or not.



 Jay Bannister




	




-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL,

RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.

do not archive.

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

pdn8r(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

That's the one that was at the Light Sport Expo that I saw.  Sign on it said you can have one built ofr $125,000.00.  

  

 I'd be glad to build one for you for $120,000.00.  Let me know if you want the address to send the check   

  

 do not archive



Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395

601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)

--- On Sun, 1/25/09, special4 <sportsflyer(at)comcast.net> wrote:



 [quote]

From: special4 <sportsflyer(at)comcast.net>

Subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 10:53 AM



           [quote][b]

Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:39 pm Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Gig,  The guy in question is a DAR for the FAA and has been CFI for years.  Its all legit.



Juan



--

Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Actually Jay you are incorrect.  Jay Kurtz, registered an 9a as ELSA.  Its fully registered as such and he is selling them from SOuth LAkeland, Florida.  Very little usefull load though.  definietly a one moan plane. It has a 900 + lb empty weight.  



Juan



--

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

 	  Juan Vega Jr wrote: 	
		  Actually Jay you are incorrect.  Jay Kurtz, registered an 9a as ELSA.  Its fully registered as such and he is selling them from SOuth LAkeland, Florida.  Very little usefull load though.  definietly a one moan plane. It has a 900 + lb empty weight.  



Juan



-- 	




Just be cause he is a DAR doesn't make it legit. And while the one of might be there is no way any of the ones he is selling now for $125K can be. After the grace period for the "fat ultralights" passed early last year the only way a plane can be E-LSA is for the company who has built the S-LSA version to produce and identical kit.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

BobCollins

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Sunnyvale CA USA

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:18 am Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

Hello,

I wonder if there is some confusion about the rules here. You are right, 

the non-factory ELSA period is over so, without Vans offering an ELSA 

version of a LSA design, you may not register a plane as an ELSA. Van 

will probably do this for the RV-12.

However, anyone can build a plane which meets the LSA specs and register 

it under amateur-built: experimental. I could believe that, with 

sufficient dirtying and compromised useful load that if would be 

possible to make an RV-9 meet the LSA specs and then fly it with a sport 

pilot license. An important issue it that it would need to be registered 

with the LSA characteristics (dirty, 1320 lbs max, etc) and would 

therefore not be a particularly attractive plane for someone who wanted 

a standard RV-9.

Bob Collins

Sunnyvale CA USA

Gig Giacona wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Juan Vega Jr wrote:

> Actually Jay you are incorrect.  Jay Kurtz, registered an 9a as ELSA.  Its fully registered as such and he is selling them from SOuth LAkeland, Florida.  Very little usefull load though.  definietly a one moan plane. It has a 900 + lb empty weight.  

>

> Juan

>

> --

>     

 Just be cause he is a DAR doesn't make it legit. And while the one of might be there is no way any of the ones he is selling now for $125K can be. After the grace period for the "fat ultralights" passed early last year the only way a plane can be E-LSA is for the company who has built the S-LSA version to produce and identical kit.

 --------

 W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona

 601XL Under Construction

 See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 26848#226848

Juan Vega Jr

Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 157

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:23 am Post subject: RV9- Light Sport

sounds good.  sounds lie you know the rules verboten.  sounds like you want to build an rv-9 or really like them.  

let me know how the build goes.



Juan



--

mcjon77

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Chicago

Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: RV9- Light Sport

Here is what I do not quite understand:



If this guy is trying to sell the RV-9 ELSA that he has already built for $120K, then that is fine.



If he is offering builders assist for an ExAB RV-9, that is OK.



HOWEVER.  If he is offering to build you a NEW ELSA or ExAB RV-9, I am almost positive that is a violation of the rules.

He cannot get an ELSA RV-9 registered since the "fat ultralight" deadline has passed and there is no SLSA version of the RV-9.

He Also cannot get an ExAB RV-9 registered if he builds it for someone, unless he is doing it for free, since it is not amateur built.  He isn't building these aircraft for other owners SOLELY for his own education and recreation, is he?



Jon

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