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406 MHZ ELT

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swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

One consideration prior to replacing your old ELT or installing a 406 MHz unit in your new aircraft:  

   

FAR 91.207 (d) (4) requires annual inspection for the presence of sufficient signal radiated from the ELT antenna.  This is not a big deal for the old 121.5 ELT’s and only requires an aviation receiver.  It is a big deal for the 406 MHz units as the test devices are almost $3K.  Not every shop has one and the DIYers in the experimental arena probably don’t have one yet.  Might be a good purchase for the local EAA chapter.  Also, in most cases the unit will have to be removed from the aircraft for testing, and enclosed in a Faraday shield to prevent a false data burst.  The aircraft antenna would then be tested separately.  I have heard the FCC aggressively prosecutes violators, and after registration they will know who you are and where you live.  

   

The double and triple ELT units that transmit on 121.5 MHZ, 406 MHz and 243 MHZ (military) frequencies simultaneously will satisfy the ELT requirement as you can still DIY test the 121.5 MHz signal. The 406 MHz burst theoretically occurs 50 seconds after the unit is triggered, so hopefully you could get the unit deactivated before that occurs.  

   

How this will be addressed in the future is unknown, and is one of the reasons the 121.5 MHz units are still permitted.  Until the dust settles on this issue, I am keeping my old ELT for the FAR requirement, and purchased the ACR ResqFix PLB with on-board GPS.  Thanks Tim for recommending this unit, $520 at Puget Sound Inflatables.  

   

Steve Roberts  

(still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)  

   

N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ‘Ms. Obsession’ KMOR Morristown,  TN  

        [quote][b]

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: 406 MHZ ELT

Steve,



I recently discovered an easy way to do the signal radiation test. Several weeks ago I installed my Artex ME406 elt. About 9 PM that night I answered a knock on the door and was greeted by a very pleasant man from the Civil Air Patrol, holding his direction finder. I had inadvertently triggered my elt during installation and he had picked up the signal 10 miles away, ground to ground.



This method is probably not FAA approved, but it is effective.



Jim Berry

40482

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:00 am Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Steve,

You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. using a VHF radio.

Patrick Thyssen

One day I to will fly.



--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Steven Roberts <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Steven Roberts <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 3:22 PM



                       

One consideration prior to replacing your old ELT or installing a 406 MHz unit in your new aircraft:   

     

FAR 91.207 (d) (4) requires annual inspection for the presence of sufficient signal radiated from the ELT antenna.  This is not a big deal for the old 121.5 ELT¢s and only requires an aviation receiver.  It is a big deal for the 406 MHz units as the test devices are almost $3K.  Not every shop has one and the DIYers in the experimental arena probably don¢t have one yet.  Might be a good purchase for the local EAA chapter.  Also, in most cases the unit will have to be removed from the aircraft for testing, and enclosed in a Faraday shield to prevent a false data burst.  The aircraft antenna would then be tested separately.  I have heard the FCC aggressively prosecutes violators, and after registration they will know who you are and where you live.   

     

The double and triple ELT units that transmit on 121.5 MHZ, 406 MHz and 243 MHZ (military) frequencies simultaneously will satisfy the ELT requirement as you can still DIY test the 121.5 MHz signal. The 406 MHz burst theoretically occurs 50 seconds after the unit is triggered, so hopefully you could get the unit deactivated before that occurs.   

     

How this will be addressed in the future is unknown, and is one of the reasons the 121.5 MHz units are still permitted.  Until the dust settles on this issue, I am keeping my old ELT for the FAR requirement, and purchased the ACR ResqFix PLB with on-board GPS.  Thanks Tim for recommending this unit, $520 at Puget Sound Inflatables.   

     

Steve Roberts   

(still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)   

     

N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ¡Ms. Obsession¢ KMOR Morristown ,  TN   

         	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.mal="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:======================== 	


	
 [quote][b]

billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

I not so brilliantly tested mine to the COSPAS satellite and hence tested the process from beginning to end.

  

 My remote activation switch was located on a removable section of the Stein panel linking to a harness through a large AMP connector. Somehow when I removed the panel it set off my ME406. The buzzer that came with the unit has a high pitch that only a dog can detect. After an unknown amount of time I sensed something was amiss and started frantically removing the screws in the tail fairing. Note that my aircraft was inside a metal hanger with the big doors opened not more than one foot.

  

 About halfway through the 30 (or so) screws securing the tail fairing my cell phone rang. It was a Sergeant from the Air Force in Florida. I told him the story and all was well. Then I asked what was the overall response time and the process he follows. From onset it was 13 minutes and he had already called my Dad and Sara. We said goodbye. I removed another 10 screws and the cell phone rang again. This time it was a lady from Search and Rescue in Alaska. I went through the story again except she wanted the long alphanumeric string to verify it was really me. Fortunately, I had my aircraft diary nearby with the ME406 documented. She said goodbye and warned me that the Coast Guard would call next.

  

 I relocated the remote switch to a fixed point to the left of my lower leg. Actually, all the emergency switches are located in a row at the same location to keep the panel uncluttered: ELT, alt air, oil winter flap, alt static air. AND - I pasted and sealed an extra ELT Beacon sticker to the side of my registration placard so I could say the long alphanumeric code without opening up the tail fairing.

  

 Guys, these new 406Mhz units work exceptionally well and there is a good process behind the alert. The 121.5Mhz units were seldom more than a comfort while you died and never a bargain at $200 (or so). Note that the 121.5 process had a mandatory 8 hour wait for additional verification to filter out false signals. So, if you calculate a blood drip rate at ....

  

 One item of concern with carrying a PLB as your 406Mhz device. As I remember the COSPAS packet or Beacon ID indicates if the alert source is a Personal LB, Aviation LB, or Marine LB. The rescue process could be very different if a PLB alert is sent for an aircraft in distress. 

  

 I sent an email to the ME406 Product Manager in early 2006 telling him to provide a pin for serial GPS data that we could optionally provide else the AmeriKings and Acks would chew his tail. He never answered. Well, we will see how the ME406 competes in the future.

  

 Bill DeRouchey

 N939SB

  



--- On Thu, 1/29/09, Jim Berry <jimberry(at)qwest.net> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Jim Berry <jimberry(at)qwest.net>

Subject: Re: 406 MHZ ELT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 4:00 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Berry"

<jimberry(at)qwest.net>



Steve,



I recently discovered an easy way to do the signal radiation test. Several

weeks ago I installed my Artex ME406 elt. About 9 PM that night I answered a

knock on the door and was greeted by a very pleasant man from the Civil Air

Patrol, holding his direction finder. I had inadvertently triggered my elt

during installation and he had picked up the signal 10 miles away, ground to

ground.



This method is probably not FAA approved, but it is effective.



Jim Berry

40482





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 27590#227590





	
	
 [quote][b]

swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Patrick,  

   

The old method won’t work on the 406 MHz ELT’s.  That was the point I was trying to make.  For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency range of VHF airband receivers.  Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, the new ELTs are frequency modulated.  Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous wave analog tone, while the new ELT’s are a short burst of digital data, very close to the way cellphone and wifi transmitters work.  The short pulse allows a high power (five watt) signal from a very small battery.  You need a special receiver to receive the signal and a digital processor to decode the data.  That’s what you get for 3 AMU’s.   

   

(AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars.  Also equivalent to one AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J  

Steve Roberts  

(still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)  

N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ‘Ms. Obsession’ KMOR Morristown,  TN  

   

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen

 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT  

  

            	  Quote: 	
		  Steve,

You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. using a VHF radio.

Patrick Thyssen

One day I to will fly.

  

   	


        

   

        [quote][b]

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Steve, 

 I was not talking about the 406elt. You made a statement about the 121.5 elt that was not exactly correct. And those who still have 121.5 need to know the correct  way to check their elts.

 Pat Thyssen

I will fly one day.



--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Steven Roberts <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Steven Roberts <swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net>

Subject: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 11:27 AM



                          

Patrick,   

     

The old method won¢t work on the 406 MHz ELT¢s.  That was the point I was trying to make.  For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency range of VHF airband receivers.  Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, the new ELTs are frequency modulated.  Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous wave analog tone, while the new ELT¢s are a short burst of digital data, very close to the way cellphone and wifi transmitters work.  The short pulse allows a high power (five watt) signal from a very small battery.  You need a special receiver to receive the signal and a digital processor to decode the data.  That¢s what you get for 3 AMU¢s.    

     

(AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars.  Also equivalent to one AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J   

Steve Roberts   

(still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)   

N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ¡Ms. Obsession¢ KMOR Morristown ,  TN   

     

           

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen

 Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT   

  

              	  Quote: 	
		  Steve,You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. using a VHF radio.Patrick ThyssenOne day I to will fly.      	


         

     

         	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.mal="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:======================== 	


	
 [quote][b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Yes, the old method WILL work on all ELTs. Point is there is NO 

regulatory requirement to test the ELT on anything but 121.5. All units 

still broadcast 121.5, as it is a requirement of the TSO. In fact 91.207 

does not specify a frequency, so you are free to test its broadcast as 

you see fit(within the 5 min after hour).

KM

A&P/IA

Steven Roberts wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Patrick,



 The old method won’t work on the 406 MHz ELT’s. That was the point I 

 was trying to make. For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency 

 range of VHF airband receivers. Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude 

 modulated, the new ELTs are frequency modulated. Lastly, the old ELTs 

 are a continuous wave analog tone, while the new ELT’s are a short 

 burst of digital data, very close to the way cellphone and wifi 

 transmitters work. The short pulse allows a high power (five watt) 

 signal from a very small battery. You need a special receiver to 

 receive the signal and a digital processor to decode the data. That’s 

 what you get for 3 AMU’s.



 (AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars. Also 

 equivalent to one AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J



 Steve Roberts



 (still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)



 N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ‘Ms. Obsession’ KMOR Morristown, TN



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------



 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick 

 Thyssen

 *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT



 Steve,



 You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. using a VHF radio.



 Patrick Thyssen



 One day I to will fly.



   



   **

 * *



 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Ok,  heres a Hint..

VHF, AM radio.    Read AC43.13.chapter 12  

Ask your Faa inspector. I did not read or ask one day on a part135 inspection.

Patrick Thyssen



--- On Fri, 1/30/09, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:48 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>Yes, the old method WILL work on all ELTs. Point is there is NO regulatoryrequirement to test the ELT on anything but 121.5. All units still broadcast121.5, as it is a requirement of the TSO. In fact 91.207 does not

 specify afrequency, so you are free to test its broadcast as you see fit(within the 5 minafter hour).KMA&P/IASteven Roberts wrote:> > Patrick,> > The old method won¢t work on the 406 MHz ELT¢s. That was the point Iwas trying to make. For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency range of VHFairband receivers. Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, the new ELTsare frequency modulated. Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous wave analog tone,while the new ELT¢s are a short burst of digital data, very close to the waycellphone and wifi transmitters work. The short pulse allows a high power (fivewatt) signal from a very small battery. You need a special receiver to receivethe signal and a digital processor to decode the data. That¢s what you get for3 AMU¢s.> > (AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars. Also equivalentto one

 AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J> > Steve Roberts> > (still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)> > N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ¡Ms. Obsession¢ KMOR Morristown, TN> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Thyssen> *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com> *Subject:* Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT> > Steve,> > You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. usinga VHF radio.> > Patrick Thyssen> > One day I to will fly.> >   >   **> * *> > *> > >

-=   -->

	
	
 [quote][b]

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Precisely. Been doing it that way for years. That is what I meant by

old method. In fact that method was first demonstrated to me by an

avionics shop over 20 years ago.  Keep in mind that the FAA works in

strange ways, and hasn't updated 43.13-1B in 8 years. I won't hold my

breath as to how long before they update an AC for 406 ELTs. Like the

AIM, ACs are good guidance, but they aren't the reg, (except for

GPSs).

2009/1/31 Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net>:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ok,  heres a Hint..

 VHF, AM radio.    Read AC43.13.chapter 12

 Ask your Faa inspector. I did not read or ask one day on a part135

 inspection.

 Patrick Thyssen

 --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

 Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:48 PM

 Yes, the old method WILL work on all ELTs. Point is there is NO regulatory

 requirement to test the ELT on anything but 121.5. All units still broadcast

 121.5, as it is a requirement of the TSO. In fact 91.207 does not

  specify a

 frequency, so you are free to test its broadcast as you see fit(within the 5

 min

 after hour).

 KM

 A&P/IA

 Steven Roberts wrote:

>

> Patrick,

>

> The old method won't work on the 406 MHz ELT's. That was the point I

 was trying to make. For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency range of

 VHF

 airband receivers. Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, the new

 ELTs

 are frequency modulated. Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous wave analog

 tone,

 while the new ELT's are a short burst of digital data, very close to the way

 cellphone and wifi transmitters work. The short pulse allows a high power

 (five

 watt) signal from a very small battery. You need a special receiver to

 receive

 the signal and a digital processor to decode the data. That's what you get

 for

 3 AMU's.

>

> (AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars. Also equivalent

 to one

  AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J

>

> Steve Roberts

>

> (still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)

>

> N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E 'Ms. Obsession' KMOR Morristown, TN

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Thyssen

> *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM

> *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

> *Subject:* Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

>

> Steve,

>

> You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. using

 a VHF radio.

>

> Patrick Thyssen

>

> One day I to will fly.

>   **

> * *

>

> *

>

 -=   -->

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:19 am Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Patrick, I'm trying to figure out which side of the argument you're

arguing for.... I read the AC43.13 chapter 12, and see nothing really

related to 406Mhz ELT's other than normal ELT Checks, and since they

also broadcast 121.5, that should make inspecting easy.  But it's

not a FAR, it's all in the AC.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Patrick Thyssen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ok,  heres a Hint..

 VHF, AM radio.    Read AC43.13.chapter 12 

 Ask your Faa inspector. I did not read or ask one day on a part135 

 inspection.

 Patrick Thyssen

 

 --- On *Fri, 1/30/09, Kelly McMullen /<kellym(at)aviating.com>/* wrote:

 

     From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

     Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:48 PM

 

     

 

     Yes, the old method WILL work on all ELTs. Point is there is NO regulatory

     requirement to test the ELT on anything but 121.5. All units still broadcast

     121.5, as it is a requirement of the TSO. In fact 91.207 does not

      specify a

     frequency, so you are free to test its broadcast as you see fit(within the 5 min

     after hour).

     KM

     A&P/IA

     Steven Roberts wrote:

     > 

     > Patrick,

     > 

     > The old method won’t work on the 406 MHz ELT’s. That was the point I

     was trying to make. For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency range of VHF

     airband receivers. Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, the new ELTs

     are frequency modulated. Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous wave analog tone,

     while the new ELT’s are a short burst of digital data, very close to the way

     cellphone and wifi transmitters work. The short pulse allows a high power (five

     watt) signal from a very small battery. You need a special receiver to receive

     the signal and a digital processor to decode the data. That’s what you get for

     3 AMU’s.

     > 

     > (AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars. Also equivalent

     to one

      AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J

     > 

     > Steve Roberts

     > 

     > (still lurking while waiting for a suitable build location)

     > 

     > N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ‘Ms. Obsession’ KMOR Morristown, TN

     > 

     > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

     > 

     > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

     [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Thyssen

     > *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM

     > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     > *Subject:* Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

     > 

     > Steve,

     > 

     > You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about checking ELTs. using

     a VHF radio.

     > 

     > Patrick Thyssen

     > 

     > One day I to will fly.

     > 

     >   

     >   **

     > * *

     > 

     > *

     > 

     > 

     >

     -=   -->

 

 

 

 

 *

 

 

 *

billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

I not so brilliantly tested mine to the COSPAS satellite and hence tested the process from beginning to end.

 My remote activation switch was located on a removable section of the Stein panel linking to a harness through a large AMP connector. Somehow when I removed the panel it set off my ME406. The buzzer that came with the unit has a high pitch that only a dog can detect. After an unknown amount of time I sensed something was amiss and started frantically removing the screws in the tail fairing. Note that my aircraft was inside a metal hanger with the big doors opened not more than one foot.

 About halfway through the 30 (or so) screws securing the tail fairing my cell phone rang. It was a Sergeant from the Air Force in Florida. I told him the story and all was well. Then I asked what was the overall response time and the process he follows. From onset it was 13 minutes and he had already called my Dad and Sara. We said goodbye. I removed another 10 screws and the cell phone rang again. This time it was a lady from Search and Rescue in Alaska. I went through the story again except she wanted the long alphanumeric string to verify it was really me. Fortunately, I had my aircraft diary nearby with the ME406 documented. She said goodbye and warned me that the Coast Guard would call next.

 I relocated the remote switch to a fixed point to the left of my lower leg. Actually, all the emergency switches are located in a row at the same location to keep the panel uncluttered: ELT, alt air, oil winter flap, alt static air. AND - I pasted and sealed an extra ELT Beacon sticker to the side of my registration placard so I could say the long alphanumeric code without opening up the tail fairing.

 Guys, these new 406Mhz units work exceptionally well and there is a good process behind the alert. The 121.5Mhz units were seldom more than a comfort while you died and never a bargain at $200 (or so). Note that the 121.5 process had a mandatory 8 hour wait for additional verification to filter out false signals. So, if you calculate a blood drip rate at ....

 One item of concern with carrying a PLB as your 406Mhz device. As I remember the COSPAS packet or Beacon ID indicates if the alert source is a Personal LB, Aviation LB, or Marine LB. The rescue process could be very different if a PLB alert is sent for an aircraft in distress. 

 I sent an email to the ME406 Product Manager in early 2006 telling him to provide a pin for serial GPS data that we could optionally provide else the AmeriKings and Acks would chew his tail. He never answered. Well, we will see how the ME406 competes in the future.

 Bill DeRouchey

 N939SB, flying

--- On Sat, 1/31/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 6:57 AM

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

Patrick, I'm trying to figure out which side of the argument you're

arguing for.... I read the AC43.13 chapter 12, and see nothing really

related to 406Mhz ELT's other than normal ELT Checks, and since they

also broadcast 121.5, that should make inspecting easy.  But it's

not a FAR, it's all in the AC.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Patrick Thyssen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ok,  heres a Hint..

 VHF, AM radio.    Read AC43.13.chapter 12 Ask your Faa inspector. I did

not read or ask one day on a part135 inspection.

 	  Quote: 	
		   Patrick Thyssen

 --- On *Fri, 1/30/09, Kelly McMullen /<kellym(at)aviating.com>/* wrote:

     From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>

     Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:48 PM

     --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen

<kellym(at)aviating.com>

 	  Quote: 	

     Yes, the old method WILL work on all ELTs. Point is there is NO

regulatory

 	  Quote: 	
		       requirement to test the ELT on anything but 121.5. All units still

broadcast

 	  Quote: 	
		       121.5, as it is a requirement of the TSO. In fact 91.207 does not

      specify a

     frequency, so you are free to test its broadcast as you see fit(within

the 5 min

 	  Quote: 	
		       after hour).

     KM

     A&P/IA

     Steven Roberts wrote:

     >     > Patrick,

     >     > The old method won¢t work on the 406 MHz ELT¢s. That

was the point I

 	  Quote: 	
		       was trying to make. For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequency

range of VHF

 	  Quote: 	
		       airband receivers. Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, the

new ELTs

 	  Quote: 	
		       are frequency modulated. Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous wave

analog tone,

 	  Quote: 	
		       while the new ELT¢s are a short burst of digital data, very close to

the way

 	  Quote: 	
		       cellphone and wifi transmitters work. The short pulse allows a high

power (five

 	  Quote: 	
		       watt) signal from a very small battery. You need a special receiver to

receive

 	  Quote: 	
		       the signal and a digital processor to decode the data. That¢s what

you get for

 	  Quote: 	
		       3 AMU¢s.

     >     > (AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars.

Also equivalent

 	  Quote: 	
		       to one

      AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J

     >     > Steve Roberts

     >     > (still lurking while waiting for a suitable build

location)

 	  Quote: 	
		       >     > N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ¡Ms. Obsession¢ KMOR

Morristown, TN

 	  Quote: 	
		       >     >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 	  Quote: 	
		       >     > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

     [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick

Thyssen

 	  Quote: 	
		       > *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM

     > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

     > *Subject:* Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

     >     > Steve,

     >     > You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 about

checking ELTs. using

 	  Quote: 	
		       a VHF radio.

     >     > Patrick Thyssen

     >     > One day I to will fly.

     >     >       >   **

     > * *

     >     > *

     >     >     >

     -=   -->

 *

 *

 [quote][b]

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

Tim,

 Ok here's where I'm coming from. Steve made a blanket statement of using VHF and thats all you do With the old 121.5 elts and As I said, I was not talking about 406 elts, I was concerned about 121.5 elts  which we mostly have in the general aviation. And do not want someone reading this and say all I have to do is use the VHF radio turn it to 121.5 and see if I get a signal.The Vhf radio only lets you test to see if it activates but is not good for the radiated signal. As per Far 91.207d4. You can test that as per AC43. And ac 43.13 is acceptable data. (Don't forget to read the notes).That is the only place I know you see testing for sufficient signal radiated from its antenna. Except for the manufacturer books which I know nothing of. 

So go ahead and shoot.

Like I said ask your local  FAA. otherwise don't ask and ask for  forgiveness afterward, that's the pilots motto around my airport.

Patrick Thyssen

Will fly one day. Maybe

--- On Sat, 1/31/09, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: 406 MHZ ELT

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 8:57 AM

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>Patrick, I'm trying to figure out which side of the argument you'rearguing for.... I read the AC43.13 chapter 12, and see nothing reallyrelated to 406Mhz ELT's other than normal ELT Checks, and since theyalso broadcast 121.5, that should make inspecting easy.  But it'snot a FAR, it's all in the AC.Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flyingdo not archivePatrick Thyssen

 wrote:> Ok,  heres a Hint..> VHF, AM radio.    Read AC43.13.chapter 12 Ask your Faa inspector. I didnot read or ask one day on a part135 inspection.> Patrick Thyssen> > --- On *Fri, 1/30/09, Kelly McMullen /<kellym(at)aviating.com>/* wrote:> >     From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>>     Subject: Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT>     To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com>     Date: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:48 PM> >     --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen<kellym(at)aviating.com>> >     Yes, the old method WILL work on all ELTs. Point is there is NOregulatory>     requirement to test the ELT on anything but 121.5. All units stillbroadcast>     121.5, as it is a requirement of the TSO. In fact 91.207 does not>      specify a>     frequency, so you are free to test its broadcast as you see

 fit(withinthe 5 min>     after hour).>     KM>     A&P/IA>     Steven Roberts wrote:>     >     > Patrick,>     >     > The old method won¢t work on the 406 MHz ELT¢s. Thatwas the point I>     was trying to make. For one thing, 406 MHz is outside the frequencyrange of VHF>     airband receivers. Secondly, the old ELTs are amplitude modulated, thenew ELTs>     are frequency modulated. Lastly, the old ELTs are a continuous waveanalog tone,>     while the new ELT¢s are a short burst of digital data, very close tothe way>     cellphone and wifi transmitters work. The short pulse allows a highpower (five>     watt) signal from a very small battery. You need a special receiver toreceive>     the signal and a digital processor to decode the data. That¢s whatyou get for>     3 AMU¢s.>     >    

 > (AMU is the American Monetary Unit or $1,000 US dollars.Also equivalent>     to one>      AJU, the American Jewelry Unit) J>     >     > Steve Roberts>     >     > (still lurking while waiting for a suitable buildlocation)>     >     > N2700W 1966 Mooney M20E ¡Ms. Obsession¢ KMORMorristown, TN>     >     >------------------------------------------------------------------------>     >     > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>     [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *PatrickThyssen>     > *Sent:* Friday, January 30, 2009 9:44 AM>     > *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com>     > *Subject:* Re: RE: 406 MHZ ELT>     >     > Steve,>     >     > You might want to look up in ac43.13 chapter 12 aboutchecking ELTs. using>     a VHF radio.>

     >     > Patrick Thyssen>     >     > One day I to will fly.>     >     >       >   **>     > * *>     >     > *>     >     >     >>     -=   -->> > > > > *> >========== 	

 [quote][b]

swrpilot(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: 406 MHZ ELT

I don’t think we have any disagreement.  You can still use the old testing methods to satisfy the annual testing requirement for ELTs.  This is because the new ELTs still have a 121.5 MHz signal in addition to the 406 MHz signal.  Testing the 406 MHz signal and data burst is not required by FAR at this time…at least so far.  

   

As Bill and others have indicated, you need to be careful when testing the ELT not to trigger the 406 MHz burst.  You may be charged for SAR costs incurred, fined, or scare the crap out of your emergency contacts.  To my knowledge there is no DIY method to fully test the 406 MHz signal.  

   

My wife and I have also been carrying our PLB whenever we travel…vacations, hiking, scuba, etc..  We let our registered contacts know where we will be.  When we went to New Zealand we put our itinerary on our NOAA registration in the comments section.  You never know…  

   

Steve Roberts  

N2700W 1966 M20E ‘Ms. Obsession’ KMOR Morristown, TN  

         

  

  

         	  Quote: 	
		  Tim,

 Ok here's where I'm coming from. Steve made a blanket statement of using VHF and thats all you do With the old 121.5 elts and As I said, I was not talking about 406 elts, I was concerned about 121.5 elts  which we mostly have in the general aviation. And do not want someone reading this and say all I have to do is use the VHF radio turn it to 121.5 and see if I get a signal.The Vhf radio only lets you test to see if it activates but is not good for the radiated signal. As per Far 91.207d4. You can test that as per AC43. And ac 43.13 is acceptable data. (Don't forget to read the notes).That is the only place I know you see testing for sufficient signal radiated from its antenna. Except for the manufacturer books which I know nothing of. 

So go ahead and shoot.

Like I said ask your local  FAA. otherwise don't ask and ask for forgiveness afterward, that's the pilots motto around my airport.

  

Patrick Thyssen

  

  

  	
     [quote]  [b]

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