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dongirod
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O�Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won�t be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized" punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25 years before. On the Queen�s demand, the records of the rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D�ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O�GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
[quote][b]
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nico(at)cybersuperstore.c Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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And how much prominence has been killed through abortion, I wonder.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:18 PM
To: Commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O’Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won’t be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized" punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25 years before. On the Queen’s demand, the records of the rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D’ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O’GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
[quote]
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John Vormbaum
![](images/avatars/120556737244eb25ff66845.jpg)
Joined: 21 Aug 2006 Posts: 273 Location: SF Bay Area, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:28 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Oh boy, here we go again...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: "nico css"
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:38:56 -0800
To: <commander-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Nine Young Irishmen
And how much prominence has been killed = through=20 abortion, I wonder.
From: = owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com=20 [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of=20dongirod
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:18 = PM
To:=20 Commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Commander-List: Nine = Young=20 Irishmen
Russell;
�
I am sure you are probably familiar = with the=20 following story of the 'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about=20 Australia,�(as many were also sent to North America),�but a = large=20 portion of the English speaking world.� Speaks wonders of what we = can do=20 when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
�
And I believe this story is true. I = checked with=20 Snopes and they have nothing on it.
�
Don
�
�
In the 1848 revolt by the Young = Irishmen nine men=20 were captured, tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the = Queen,=20 and were sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, = Thomas=20 McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O’Gorman, Terrence = McManus,=20 Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men = were=20 asked if they had any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, = speaking for=20 all of them said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be = our last.=20 If you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as = gentlemen, to=20 try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won’t be fools = enough to get=20 caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to = be=20 hanged by the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal=20 "civilized" punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that = time.=20 Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be = commuted=20 to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.=20
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans = of even=20 the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that = Charles Duffy=20 who had been elected Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles = Duffy who=20 had been transported 25 years before. On the Queen’s demand, the = records of the=20 rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was = uncovered:=20
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the = father of=20 John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World = War I.=20
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office =
MICHAEL=20 IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United = States=20 Army
THOMAS D’ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, = Minister of=20
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada =
THOMAS=20 FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier = General, United States Army
RICHARD O’GORMAN, Governor = General of=20 Newfoundland
Quote: | href=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat= ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href=3D"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href=3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _-=3D - The Commander-List Email Forum - _-=3D Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse _-=3D the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, _-=3D Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, _-=3D Photoshare, and much much more: _-=3D _-=3D --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List _-=3D _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _-=3D - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - _-=3D Same great content also available via the Web Forums! _-=3D _-=3D --> http://forums.matronics.com _-=3D _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _-=3D - List Contribution Web Site - _-=3D Thank you for your generous support! _-=3D -Matt Dralle, List Admin. _-=3D --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution _-=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
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RnJThompson(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Hi Guys,
Those of you interested might find this enlightening.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/capitalnews/2008/2008-09-04_melbourne-uni-paper-Aust-
gun-buyback.pdf
It only shows what most of us already know.
I wont start a commentary because it will go on for hours.
Cheers
Richard
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RnJThompson(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:26 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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This one is also good.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/research/2008/2008-06_evaluating-britains-handgun-ban
.html
We have gone so far in Australia to have our own political party. At the
moment we have two seats in parliament in New South Wales. The Greenies hate
us.
Cheers
Richard
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bobf(at)feldtman.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:35 am Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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merely 34 MILLION in America alone! Oh - those were working taxpayers which we don't have now. I know it is off topic - but truthfully, it is never off topic. Look at all "my" hobbies - general aviation, ham radio, hunting and fishing, my military career, all the "guy" stuff, is now old grey haired guys. there just aren't enough young people out there to get interest. I can think of 17 million young boys who might have had an interest.
bobf
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:38 PM, nico css <nico(at)cybersuperstore.com (nico(at)cybersuperstore.com)> wrote:
[quote] And how much prominence has been killed through abortion, I wonder.
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of dongirod
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 12:18 PM
To: Commander-list(at)matronics.com (Commander-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Nine Young Irishmen
Russell;
I am sure you are probably familiar with the following story of the 'Nine Young Irishmen', it is not just about Australia, (as many were also sent to North America), but a large portion of the English speaking world. Speaks wonders of what we can do when we 'mature' and redirect our energies.
And I believe this story is true. I checked with Snopes and they have nothing on it.
Don
In the 1848 revolt by the Young Irishmen nine men were captured, tried, and convicted of treason against Her Majesty, the Queen, and were sentenced to death: John Mitchell, Morris Lyene, Pat Donahue, Thomas McGee, Charles Duffy, Thomas Meagher, Richard O'Gorman, Terrence McManus, Michael Ireland.
Before sentence was passed, the condemned men were asked if they had any final words for the court. Thomas Meagher, speaking for all of them said, "My lord, this is our first offense but it won't be our last. If you will be easy with us this once, we promise, on our word as gentlemen, to try to do better next time. And next time - sure we won't be fools enough to get caught."
Immediately the indignant judge sentenced them all "to be hanged by the neck until dead and drawn and quartered" ----the normal "civilized" punishment for anyone offending the English crown at that time. Passionate protests from all over the world forced the sentence to be commuted to transportation for life to the wretched penal colonies of Australia.
Fortunately, the hand of the Almighty often over-rules the plans of even the British Government.
In 1874, word reached England that Charles Duffy who had been elected Prime Minister of Australia was the same Charles Duffy who had been transported 25 years before. On the Queen's demand, the records of the rest of the transported men were revealed and this is what was uncovered:
JOHN MITCHELL, prominent New York politician. This was the father of John
Purroy Mitchell, Mayor of New York, at the outbreak of World War I.
MORRIS LYENE, Attorney General of Australia, to which office
MICHAEL IRELAND succeeded him
PATRICK DONAHUE, Brigadier General, United States Army
THOMAS D'ARCY McGEE, Member of Parliament, Montreal, Minister of
Agriculture and President of Council Dominion of Canada
THOMAS FRANCIS MEAGHER, Governor of Montana
TERRENCE MCMANUS, Brigadier General, United States Army
RICHARD O'GORMAN, Governor General of Newfoundland
[b]
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andrew.bridget(at)telus.n Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Amen!
[quote] ---
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dongirod
Joined: 11 Dec 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Richard;
A good politician would probably claim, it was the wonderful influence of
Australia that turned these nine young men around to their full potential
and there is probably some truth in that!
Did enjoy the article, thanks. It pretty well coincides with my beliefs.
Guns don't kill people, people do. Believe I learned that in Bible school,
"Cain slew Able".
Don
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andrew.bridget(at)telus.n Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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I'd be sceptical on this, but only because the term "drawn and quartered". That refers to what is done to a cow (or other animal) after slaughter: hung, drawn (allow the blood to flow from it), and quartered - cut into quarters for sale and consumption. The term "hanged" is right, though - a person his hanged, not hung.
But, it could be true, too; the writer of the story might have taken poetic licence and embellished the story.
God bless,
Andrew
[quote] ---
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RnJThompson(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Andrew,
This was a common way of terminating ones enemies. The process I believe was to hang the individual in more of a throttling way ( as opposed to neck snapping) until death was imminent. Then the individual would be attached to a couple of horses and literally pulled apart. The different parts were then sent to areas were the individual had supporters as a warning. It was more a middle ages type thing. William Wallace was one of the recipients of this treatment (Mel Gibson – Braveheart)
Cheers
Richard
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andrew.bridget(at)telus.n Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Richard,
You could be right I am very aware from personal experience that that sort of inhumanity occurs in warfare; just wasn't aware that such would have been condoned in a so called "Court of Law". I should have known better: man's inhumanity to man is as extreme today as it ever was, so why should it not be then?
In December 1979 I was a cop in the Rhodesian BSAP and was sent to investigate a sudden death where a four-year-old girl had been murdered. Mugabe's "Freedom Fighters" - which is what the world called them; we called them terrorists - demanded food from an old woman in a village; she gave them what they wanted, and after they finished it they told her that it was not to their liking. They took her grandchild and said they knew the child's father was in the police (he was), and so they raped her before inspanning four donkeys, and ripping the still living child limb from limb.
And what did the world do?
In 1982 Mugabe was made Prime Minister of Zimbabwe, and from about 1984 to 1986 he sent his North Korean trained Fifth Brigade into Matabeleland South - a province in Zimbabwe - where they massacred some 20,000 people. BBC reported it, and what did the world do?
Look what's happening in Zimbabwe today.
And what's the world doing?
I apologise for the rant. I hadn't connected "drawn and quartered" to that sort of thing until I read your e-mail, Richard - and then all the dreadful memories came flooding back.
God bless,
Andrew
---
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nico(at)cybersuperstore.c Guest
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: Nine Young Irishmen |
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Be assured, Zimbabwe is only getting front-burner attention because of its economic woes and not its humanitarian crimes. In many so-called respected countries, this sort of infanticide and genocide is rife, known to the world, and nothing is done about it. It only takes two generations to forget the atrocities of a despotic past. Even the holocaust is fading into the past and it enjoyed a lot of attention, as it should have. Only a small number of people is still alive that had family and friends disappearing in WWII, and the number is decreasing every day. So, most people alive today have no real connection to such evil; unless one has lived in countries that still live in the dark ages.
The keen eye can spot the same barbaric brutality in our society today, masked by political correctness and a sense of entitlement. Make no mistake, they will tore you and your children limb from limb if you get in their way. We, who rant and rave about these abuses, are called nuts and fanatics, but history will prove us to be either Paul Reveres or Chicken Littles. Sadly, by the time history judges us, it would probably be too late.
I know mud. What's coming aint no mud unless we pursue our beliefs and initiatives.
Nico
From: owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of andrew.bridget(at)telus.net
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:34 PM
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Nine Young Irishmen
Richard,
You could be right I am very aware from personal experience that that sort of inhumanity occurs in warfare; just wasn't aware that such would have been condoned in a so called "Court of Law". I should have known better: man's inhumanity to man is as extreme today as it ever was, so why should it not be then?
In December 1979 I was a cop in the Rhodesian BSAP and was sent to investigate a sudden death where a four-year-old girl had been murdered. Mugabe's "Freedom Fighters" - which is what the world called them; we called them terrorists - demanded food from an old woman in a village; she gave them what they wanted, and after they finished it they told her that it was not to their liking. They took her grandchild and said they knew the child's father was in the police (he was), and so they raped her before inspanning four donkeys, and ripping the still living child limb from limb.
And what did the world do?
In 1982 Mugabe was made Prime Minister of Zimbabwe, and from about 1984 to 1986 he sent his North Korean trained Fifth Brigade into Matabeleland South - a province in Zimbabwe - where they massacred some 20,000 people. BBC reported it, and what did the world do?
Look what's happening in Zimbabwe today.
And what's the world doing?
I apologise for the rant. I hadn't connected "drawn and quartered" to that sort of thing until I read your e-mail, Richard - and then all the dreadful memories came flooding back.
God bless,
Andrew
---
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