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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing  

company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would  

love to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home  

stretch.  I imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues  

and I think the conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I  

am in the build, and the many topics this will span, I think it's  

best to break this in to three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.   

Others may want to expand beyond these three, but these are the areas  

I have in front of me to consider.  The option of taking on a partner  

is also something I'm considering, but I want to see things play out  

a while longer before I go that route.



My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of  

about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to  

the list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those  

that have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low  

enough to realize some savings?  What are some good resources for  

headliner, carpet and leather?  What tools are required?  What are  

the best "How To" books to read?



Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got  

a surplus of time... money, not so much.



Jeff Carpenter

40304

N410CF (reserved)

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Jeff, when I built my Pietenpol Aircamper (which, btw is in this month's Sport Aviation on page 7 I got  an entire hide of leather from B&B Aircraft Supply at OSH for $110 (this was in 2002).  I made the seat cushions with Temperfoam and then took the foam and the leather to a local upholstery shop that specializes in boat upholstery.  They charged me $400 to make two seat cushions, so between the foam, the leather and the upholstery shop, I put a total of about $600 into two seats (and had enough leather left over to make the cockpit coamings, and still more is left).  I would think if you do it yourself like that, even paying professionals to sew it (leather requires pretty heavy duty sewing machines) you should be able to do all four seats for about $1,000.  

  

Jack Philllips  

RV-10 #40610  

Pietenpol NX899JP  

  

--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:04 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

While not a way to get maximum savings, just changing from Leather

to fabric or faux leather would save a bunch on the interior.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jeff Carpenter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

 company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would 

 love to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home 

 stretch.  I imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues 

 and I think the conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I am 

 in the build, and the many topics this will span, I think it's best to 

 break this in to three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.  Others may 

 want to expand beyond these three, but these are the areas I have in 

 front of me to consider.  The option of taking on a partner is also 

 something I'm considering, but I want to see things play out a while 

 longer before I go that route.

 

 My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

 about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the 

 list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that 

 have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough 

 to realize some savings?  What are some good resources for headliner, 

 carpet and leather?  What tools are required?  What are the best "How 

 To" books to read?

 

 Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got a 

 surplus of time... money, not so much.

 

 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 N410CF (reserved)

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Oh, and for what it's worth, if you can stomach it, and you find

the RIGHT partner, going partners in a plane can have just

tremendous cost savings advantages for maintenance, for hangar

costs, and all that aspect too.  I have to say, finishing the

plane is expensive, but once I got mine flying, I found that

whereas I had previously been able to save up quite a bit of

money in shorter timeframes, just the fact that I was flying

the plane really heavily impacts how fast our savings account

is rebounding.  It's been 3 years now that I've been flying

my RV-10.  It took me 2 years to build it.  I saved up only

about 1/2 to 1/3 of the money in the bank SINCE I've finished

the plane in 3 years, as I did in the 2 or 3 years prior while

building it.  That's why I'm not a fan of financing a kit

project...because once you're done, making the payments isn't

going to be any easier if you actually use your airplane.



So if you do indeed find a good partner, even if you do it for

a limited timeframe, it could give you the opportunity to get

back into a good financial position without sacrificing what you

want to put into the plane, and make the long-term possibilities

more feasable.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jeff Carpenter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

 company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would 

 love to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home 

 stretch.  I imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues 

 and I think the conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I am 

 in the build, and the many topics this will span, I think it's best to 

 break this in to three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.  Others may 

 want to expand beyond these three, but these are the areas I have in 

 front of me to consider.  The option of taking on a partner is also 

 something I'm considering, but I want to see things play out a while 

 longer before I go that route.

 

 My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

 about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the 

 list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that 

 have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough 

 to realize some savings?  What are some good resources for headliner, 

 carpet and leather?  What tools are required?  What are the best "How 

 To" books to read?

 

 Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got a 

 surplus of time... money, not so much.

 

 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 N410CF (reserved)

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Jeff Carpenter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

 company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would 

 love to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home 

 stretch.  I imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues 

 and I think the conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I 

 am in the build, and the many topics this will span, I think it's best 

 to break this in to three threads:  Interior,

Don't install an interior.  You can always do that later.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Panel

Don't know whether you're planning on full IFR, but you can install a 
	


VFR panel and then upgrade to IFR when you have the cash.

 	  Quote: 	
		   and Paint.

If you have a hangar to store the completed plane in, then even paint 
	


can be delayed.  If no hangar, I'd recommend painting it so it 

withstands the weather better.

 	  Quote: 	
		     Others may want to expand beyond these three, but these are the 

 areas I have in front of me to consider.  The option of taking on a 

 partner is also something I'm considering, but I want to see things 

 play out a while longer before I go that route.



 My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

 about $5000.

$5000 will go a long way to populate your panel.  And you'll be somewhat 
	


lighter for it! 

 	  Quote: 	
		     I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the list of 

 things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that have 

 "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough to 

 realize some savings?

By the time you invest in an industrial sewing machine and toss the 
	


'learning experience' material, I'm not sure that you'd be very far 

ahead.  You'll surely save on the frustration level by contracting that 

part out.  Installing the 'bad' parts will aggravate you each time you 

lay eyes on it .... and that's true when only you notice!!!



Good luck

Linn

 	  Quote: 	
		     What are some good resources for headliner, carpet and leather?  

 What tools are required?  What are the best "How To" books to read?



 Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got a 

 surplus of time... money, not so much.



 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 N410CF (reserved)

chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

While we're speaking of cutting corners or costs, what are you guys doing 

about yearly property taxes on your RV10s particularly those of you living 

in California.  As near as I can tell it's going to cost me about $2,000 a 

year in "personal property taxes" for the state/county to allow me to keep 

my airplane.  Ideas?

Chuck



--------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Oh, and for what it's worth, if you can stomach it, and you find

 the RIGHT partner, going partners in a plane can have just

 tremendous cost savings advantages for maintenance, for hangar

 costs, and all that aspect too.  I have to say, finishing the

 plane is expensive, but once I got mine flying, I found that

 whereas I had previously been able to save up quite a bit of

 money in shorter timeframes, just the fact that I was flying

 the plane really heavily impacts how fast our savings account

 is rebounding.  It's been 3 years now that I've been flying

 my RV-10.  It took me 2 years to build it.  I saved up only

 about 1/2 to 1/3 of the money in the bank SINCE I've finished

 the plane in 3 years, as I did in the 2 or 3 years prior while

 building it.  That's why I'm not a fan of financing a kit

 project...because once you're done, making the payments isn't

 going to be any easier if you actually use your airplane.



 So if you do indeed find a good partner, even if you do it for

 a limited timeframe, it could give you the opportunity to get

 back into a good financial position without sacrificing what you

 want to put into the plane, and make the long-term possibilities

 more feasable.



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 Jeff Carpenter wrote:

> 

>

> With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

> company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would love 

> to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home stretch.  I 

> imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues and I think the 

> conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I am in the build, and 

> the many topics this will span, I think it's best to break this in to 

> three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.  Others may want to expand 

> beyond these three, but these are the areas I have in front of me to 

> consider.  The option of taking on a partner is also something I'm 

> considering, but I want to see things play out a while longer before I go 

> that route.

>

> My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

> about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the 

> list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that 

> have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough to 

> realize some savings?  What are some good resources for headliner, carpet 

> and leather?  What tools are required?  What are the best "How To" books 

> to read?

>

> Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got a 

> surplus of time... money, not so much.

>

> Jeff Carpenter

> 40304

> N410CF (reserved)

capsteve(at)iflyrv10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Wow, I thought new York was bad..  perhaps setting up a out of state 

corporation which owns the aircraft could help..

I have used Nevada before..



steve DiNieri 40205

IFLYRV10.COM



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>

Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:55 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 While we're speaking of cutting corners or costs, what are you guys doing 

 about yearly property taxes on your RV10s particularly those of you living 

 in California.  As near as I can tell it's going to cost me about $2,000 a 

 year in "personal property taxes" for the state/county to allow me to keep 

 my airplane.  Ideas?

 Chuck



 --------------------------------------------------

 Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior



> 

>

> Oh, and for what it's worth, if you can stomach it, and you find

> the RIGHT partner, going partners in a plane can have just

> tremendous cost savings advantages for maintenance, for hangar

> costs, and all that aspect too.  I have to say, finishing the

> plane is expensive, but once I got mine flying, I found that

> whereas I had previously been able to save up quite a bit of

> money in shorter timeframes, just the fact that I was flying

> the plane really heavily impacts how fast our savings account

> is rebounding.  It's been 3 years now that I've been flying

> my RV-10.  It took me 2 years to build it.  I saved up only

> about 1/2 to 1/3 of the money in the bank SINCE I've finished

> the plane in 3 years, as I did in the 2 or 3 years prior while

> building it.  That's why I'm not a fan of financing a kit

> project...because once you're done, making the payments isn't

> going to be any easier if you actually use your airplane.

>

> So if you do indeed find a good partner, even if you do it for

> a limited timeframe, it could give you the opportunity to get

> back into a good financial position without sacrificing what you

> want to put into the plane, and make the long-term possibilities

> more feasable.

>

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

> do not archive

> Jeff Carpenter wrote:

>> 

>>

>> With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

>> company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would 

>> love to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home 

>> stretch.  I imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues 

>> and I think the conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I am 

>> in the build, and the many topics this will span, I think it's best to 

>> break this in to three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.  Others may 

>> want to expand beyond these three, but these are the areas I have in 

>> front of me to consider.  The option of taking on a partner is also 

>> something I'm considering, but I want to see things play out a while 

>> longer before I go that route.

>>

>> My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

>> about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the 

>> list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that 

>> have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough 

>> to realize some savings?  What are some good resources for headliner, 

>> carpet and leather?  What tools are required?  What are the best "How 

>> To" books to read?

>>

>> Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got a 

>> surplus of time... money, not so much.

>>

>> Jeff Carpenter

>> 40304

>> N410CF (reserved)

>

>

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Jeff;

I feel your pain, my group at the Corp continues to diminish each month, 

they announced a  12K headcount reduction within the year and no one is 

safe, so I have slowed my project waaay down to assure I have funds for that 

thunderstorm should I get stuck in that layoff.

I plan to spend the money on the engine- new one, maybe do what you did and 

get it on clearance at Sun n Fun, I plan to get the panel I planned on or 

maybe better as technology allows, , my seats are done  locally using a good 

quality faux leather since my 2 daughters are very young and will test the 

seats for durability so anything less or more was not acceptable. Everything 

else is not critical to my mission and can be done to a minimum. I'll paint 

the interior with a decent paint and deal with better later, outside will 

probably get painted like Tim did since it will be far easier time and 

financially to do it in pieces than after completion in a pro shop. I'll 

take my time doing all this as it will cost money to park the plane in a 

hangar, pay California taxes and of course all those trips for the family as 

Tim has teased us all with these last three years once the plane is 

completed, THAT will far outdo any spending I am doing now. The good news 

for me is by my saving for the thunderstorm, if it dissipates before hitting 

me I'll have the funds to finish and afford flying the plane, so time is a 

good thing. Be patient and work on the plane, delay the major purchases as 

long as possible, and get the panel you want that too will cost more to 

replace and redo later than just doing it right the first time.

Best of success with whatever you decide to do.

Pascal

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>

Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 1:42 PM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

 company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would  love 

 to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home  stretch.  I 

 imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues  and I think the 

 conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I  am in the build, and 

 the many topics this will span, I think it's  best to break this in to 

 three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.   Others may want to expand 

 beyond these three, but these are the areas  I have in front of me to 

 consider.  The option of taking on a partner  is also something I'm 

 considering, but I want to see things play out  a while longer before I go 

 that route.



 My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

 about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to  the 

 list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those  that 

 have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low  enough to 

 realize some savings?  What are some good resources for  headliner, carpet 

 and leather?  What tools are required?  What are  the best "How To" books 

 to read?



 Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got  a 

 surplus of time... money, not so much.



 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

 N410CF (reserved)

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Vote with your feet. AZ NV ?? 



--

avu1(at)md.metrocast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

One thing I'm most proud of about my interior is my home made upholtery -

only because my wife came home one day with two rolls of uphostery fabric

from G-Street Fabric.  It's been a while but I think the total cost was

$300.  I spent a week covering each seat, one stitch at a time.  I think

there's enough left over to cover at least one more set of seats.  That

was a saving of a few thousands.

I'm glad I don't live in CA.

Anh

N591VU

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 While we're speaking of cutting corners or costs, what are you guys doing

 about yearly property taxes on your RV10s particularly those of you living

 in California.  As near as I can tell it's going to cost me about $2,000 a

 year in "personal property taxes" for the state/county to allow me to keep

 my airplane.  Ideas?

 Chuck



 --------------------------------------------------

 Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior



> 

>

> Oh, and for what it's worth, if you can stomach it, and you find

> the RIGHT partner, going partners in a plane can have just

> tremendous cost savings advantages for maintenance, for hangar

> costs, and all that aspect too.  I have to say, finishing the

> plane is expensive, but once I got mine flying, I found that

> whereas I had previously been able to save up quite a bit of

> money in shorter timeframes, just the fact that I was flying

> the plane really heavily impacts how fast our savings account

> is rebounding.  It's been 3 years now that I've been flying

> my RV-10.  It took me 2 years to build it.  I saved up only

> about 1/2 to 1/3 of the money in the bank SINCE I've finished

> the plane in 3 years, as I did in the 2 or 3 years prior while

> building it.  That's why I'm not a fan of financing a kit

> project...because once you're done, making the payments isn't

> going to be any easier if you actually use your airplane.

>

> So if you do indeed find a good partner, even if you do it for

> a limited timeframe, it could give you the opportunity to get

> back into a good financial position without sacrificing what you

> want to put into the plane, and make the long-term possibilities

> more feasable.

>

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

> do not archive

> Jeff Carpenter wrote:

>> 

>> <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>

>>

>> With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing

>> company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would

>> love

>> to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home stretch.

>> I

>> imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues and I think

>> the

>> conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I am in the build,

>> and

>> the many topics this will span, I think it's best to break this in to

>> three threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.  Others may want to expand

>> beyond these three, but these are the areas I have in front of me to

>> consider.  The option of taking on a partner is also something I'm

>> considering, but I want to see things play out a while longer before I

>> go

>> that route.

>>

>> My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of

>> about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the

>> list of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that

>> have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough

>> to

>> realize some savings?  What are some good resources for headliner,

>> carpet

>> and leather?  What tools are required?  What are the best "How To"

>> books

>> to read?

>>

>> Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've got a

>> surplus of time... money, not so much.

>>

>> Jeff Carpenter

>> 40304

>> N410CF (reserved)

>

>

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

As per Callefornia...as Arnold calls it...it might be best to leave it without a registration number and out of sight for as long as possible. This doesn't help...but I too dred the day the LA Co. assessors office sends me that letter C every year C time to bend over.



I suspect they may even try to fine me for not paying the taxes prior to the builds completion. 

I don't think the Nevada option works unless you can leave it there for a very long time C get to it easily and even they are short on money and looking for it in what ever way they can.

JOhn G.

Jacked up the plane today and now the top of the plane is about seven inches from the gluelam on my shop ceiling



[quote] From: chuck(at)chuckdirect.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

 Date: Sat C 7 Feb 2009 16:55:23 -0800

 

   [quote][b]

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:17 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

The board is actually quite confused on how to handle  homebuilts, technically you have 1 year to pay for the out of state purchases,  they will simply tax you for the value assessed as if you bought the plane (aka  7.75% of initial assessment). It turns out to be less in taxes to pay as you go  since then you don’t have to show receipts for all California purchases. As far  as the property tax it's 1.0% of the assessed value, if you disagree with the  initial assessment you can request a revalue and court date. They'll basically  ask what you have in the plane than compare to other RV-10's out there, so those  wanting 200K plus for their planes are going to hurt the rest of us as that is  how they determine the final value, unless you're plane is state of the art I  don’t think you'll be hit with 2K a year, even in LA county.

 If you're not going to do the LLC and try to get it by  Arnold's tax army for over a year as being in Nevada, think about paying  for the kits now. California is spending lots of money to assure boats, cars and  other "luxury" items are not being covered as LLC and placed in California, the  penalties are very severe if caught, my neighbor, who's a yacht broker said  trying to sell boats 100 miles out and leaving in Mexico for a year is not  working anymore in Ca, one of his clients was caught and hit with close to 500K  in penalties for a 1.1million yacht, take your chances in DE or NV but  California is in a deficit and want all those who support those who aren't  paying a dime in this state to pay more.

 It's not worth it to me, I play by the books and know that  if Obama nominates me I'll have a clean tax record.

   From: John Gonzalez (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com) 

 Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 7:25 PM

 To: RV 10 group (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Change in Economy... Change in Plans...  Interior

As per Callefornia...as Arnold calls it...it might be best to  leave it without a registration number and out of sight for as long as possible.  This doesn't help...but I too dred the day the LA Co. assessors office sends me  that letter, every year, time to bend over.  

 I suspect they may even try to fine me for not paying the taxes prior to  the builds completion. 

 I don't think the Nevada option works unless you can leave it there for a  very long time, get to it easily and even they are short on money and looking  for it in what ever way they can.

 JOhn G.

 Jacked up the plane today and now the top of the plane is about seven  inches from the gluelam on my shop ceiling

 	  Quote: 	
		   From:  chuck(at)chuckdirect.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re:  Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

 Date: Sat, 7  Feb 2009 16:55:23 -0800

 --> RV10-List message posted by:  "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>

 While we're  speaking of cutting corners or costs, what are you guys doing 

 about  yearly property taxes on your RV10s particularly those of you living 

 in  California. As near as I can tell it's going to cost me about $2,000 a 

  year in "personal property taxes" for the state/county to allow me to keep  

 my airplane. Ideas?

 Chuck

  --------------------------------------------------

 Subject: Re:  Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

>  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson  <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

>

> Oh, and for what it's worth, if  you can stomach it, and you find

> the RIGHT partner, going partners  in a plane can have just

> tremendous cost savings advantages for  maintenance, for hangar

> costs, and all that aspect too. I have to  say, finishing the

> plane is expensive, but once I got mine flying, I  found that

> whereas I had previously been able to save up quite a bit  of

> money in shorter timeframes, just the fact that I was  flying

> the plane really heavily impacts how fast our savings  account

> is rebounding. It's been 3 years now that I've been  flying

> my RV-10. It took me 2 years to build it. I saved up  only

> about 1/2 to 1/3 of the money in the bank SINCE I've  finished

> the plane in 3 years, as I did in the 2 or 3 years prior  while

> building it. That's why I'm not a fan of financing a  kit

> project...because once you're done, making the payments  isn't

> going to be any easier if you actually use your  airplane.

>

> So if you do indeed find a good partner, even  if you do it for

> a limited timeframe, it could give you the  opportunity to get

> back into a good financial position without  sacrificing what you

> want to put into the plane, and make the  long-term possibilities

> more feasable.

>

> Tim  Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

> do not  archive

> Jeff Carpenter  wrote:

>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter  <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>

>>

>> With the downturn  in the economy (my business, a commercial printing 

>> company, is  down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would love 

>>  to hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home stretch. I  

>> imagine I'm not the only one struggling with these issues and I  think the 

>> conversation would benefit many. Because of where I  am in the build, and 

>> the many topics this will span, I think  it's best to break this in to 

>> three threads: Interior, Panel  and Paint. Others may want to expand 

>> beyond these three, but  these are the areas I have in front of me to 

>> consider. The  option of taking on a partner is also something I'm 

>>  considering, but I want to see things play out a while longer before I go  

>> that route.

>>

>> My plan has been to  buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of 

>> about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the 

>> list  of things I've learned while building this plane. For those that  

>> have "rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low  enough to 

>> realize some savings? What are some good resources  for headliner, carpet 

>> and leather? What tools are required?  What are the best "How To" books 

>> to  read?

>>

>> Up until now, I have had a nice mix of  time and money. Now I've got a 

>> surplus of time... money, not so  much.

>>

>> Jeff Carpenter

>>  40304

>> N410CF (reserved)<=======================

  ==

[quote]

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

pascal wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The board is actually quite confused on how to handle homebuilts, 

 technically you have 1 year to pay for the out of state purchases, 

 they will simply tax you for the value assessed as if you bought the 

 plane (aka 7.75% of initial assessment). It turns out to be less in 

 taxes to pay as you go since then you don’t have to show receipts for 

 all California purchases. As far as the property tax it's 1.0% of the 

 assessed value, if you disagree with the initial assessment you can 

 request a revalue and court date. They'll basically ask what you have 

 in the plane than compare to other RV-10's out there, so those wanting 

 200K plus for their planes are going to hurt the rest of us as that is 

 how they determine the final value, unless you're plane is state of 

 the art I don’t think you'll be hit with 2K a year, even in LA county.

This is the biggest reason not to register your plane as an RV-10. Call 
	


it a Pascal-1 (or 2 or 3 for repeat offenders  ) and pay whatever tax 

you're comfortable with. If you're proactive and send the state a little 

tax money (be somewhat reasonable) when you finally register the 

airplane, they aren't likely to make a fuss. If you aren't proactive and 

they finally send you a letter (and they will) then you're hit with the 

taxes and penalties.

 	  Quote: 	
		   If you're not going to do the LLC and try to get it by Arnold's tax 

 army for over a year as being in Nevada, think about paying for the 

 kits now. California is spending lots of money to assure boats, cars 

 and other "luxury" items are not being covered as LLC and placed in 

 California, the penalties are very severe if caught, my neighbor, 

 who's a yacht broker said trying to sell boats 100 miles out and 

 leaving in Mexico for a year is not working anymore in Ca, one of his 

 clients was caught and hit with close to 500K in penalties for a 

 1.1million yacht, take your chances in DE or NV but California is in a 

 deficit and want all those who support those who aren't paying a dime 

 in this state to pay more.

States are increasingly taxing on where the airplane resides, not where 
	


the corporation resides. Some states issue a 'use tax' sticker. If your 

airplane resides in a hangar and can't be seen on the ramp without a 

sticker then you might get by without paying for a while .... but the 

tax man just asks the airport management for a t-hangar list with 

N-numbers .... and you're busted.

 	  Quote: 	
		   It's not worth it to me, I play by the books and know that if Obama 

 nominates me I'll have a clean tax record.

I love it! Maybe you can get some help from the stimulus bill!!! There's 
	


a saying that volunteers pay taxes ..... it all depends on how much you 

volunteer.

Linn

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:36 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

If I were you guys I suggest you not post your tax evasion schemes on the list....government knowledge is dangerous...remember the TSA thread the other day?

Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T



--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Do like what we're going to do....... MOVE the hell out of here!    (Calif)

 Don McDonald

--- On Sat, 2/7/09, Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Chuck Weyant <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>

Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 4:55 PM

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant"

<chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>

While we're speaking of cutting corners or costs, what are you guys doing

about yearly property taxes on your RV10s particularly those of you living in

California.  As near as I can tell it's going to cost me about $2,000 a year

in "personal property taxes" for the state/county to allow me to keep

my airplane.  Ideas?

Chuck

--------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>

 Oh, and for what it's worth, if you can stomach it, and you find

 the RIGHT partner, going partners in a plane can have just

 tremendous cost savings advantages for maintenance, for hangar

 costs, and all that aspect too.  I have to say, finishing the

 plane is expensive, but once I got mine flying, I found that

 whereas I had previously been able to save up quite a bit of

 money in shorter timeframes, just the fact that I was flying

 the plane really heavily impacts how fast our savings account

 is rebounding.  It's been 3 years now that I've been flying

 my RV-10.  It took me 2 years to build it.  I saved up only

 about 1/2 to 1/3 of the money in the bank SINCE I've finished

 the plane in 3 years, as I did in the 2 or 3 years prior while

 building it.  That's why I'm not a fan of financing a kit

 project...because once you're done, making the payments isn't

 going to be any easier if you actually use your airplane.

 So if you do indeed find a good partner, even if you do it for

 a limited timeframe, it could give you the opportunity to get

 back into a good financial position without sacrificing what you

 want to put into the plane, and make the long-term possibilities

 more feasable.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 Jeff Carpenter wrote:

> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter

<jeff(at)westcottpress.com>

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

> With the downturn in the economy (my business, a commercial printing

company, is down 40%) I'm having to rethink my RV-10 plans and would love to

hear some thoughts about cost cutting options in the home stretch.  I imagine

I'm not the only one struggling with these issues and I think the

conversation would benefit many.  Because of where I am in the build, and the

many topics this will span, I think it's best to break this in to three

threads:  Interior, Panel and Paint.  Others may want to expand beyond these

three, but these are the areas I have in front of me to consider.  The option of

taking on a partner is also something I'm considering, but I want to see

things play out a while longer before I go that route.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

> My plan has been to buy a Flightline Interior in leather at a cost of

about $5000.  I'm now considering adding the craft of upholstery to the list

of things I've learned while building this plane.  For those that have

"rolled your own" interiors, was the raw material cost low enough to

realize some savings?  What are some good resources for headliner, carpet and

leather?  What tools are required?  What are the best "How To" books

to read?

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

> Up until now, I have had a nice mix of time and money.  Now I've

got a surplus of time... money, not so much.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

> Jeff Carpenter

> 40304

> N410CF (reserved)

         [quote][b]

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:08 am Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

I worked for the Franchise Tax Board for 28 years.,... you are so right.   I have a catamaran on the east coast and Calif went after me for the sales tax....  When I didn't get all the info to them (because we were in the Bahamas) they sent me a bill for $33,000.  Did finally get it all straightened out, but what a pain.

 So, definitely donot post your scheme on any board.  Pascal, email me.

 Don McDonald



--- On Sat, 2/7/09, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:



 [quote]From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>

Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

To: "Rv" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 10:33 PM



[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com  If I were you guys I suggest you not post your tax evasion schemes on the list....government knowledge is dangerous...remember the TSA thread the other day? Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T  --

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

poneill(at)irealms.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Ditto on that.  I’ve lived in CA my entire life and the CA FTB is definitely the worst.  I’ll deal with the IRS over them any day of the week.  

   

The tax issues on my project are getting just as much diligence as the workmanship on the plane.  

   

Patrick #40715  

Do not archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald

 Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 12:07 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior  

  

              

I worked for the Franchise Tax Board for 28   years.,... you are so right.   I have a catamaran on the east coast   and Calif   went after me for the sales tax....  When I didn't get all the info to   them (because we were in the Bahamas)   they sent me a bill for $33,000.  Did finally get it all straightened   out, but what a pain.   

      

So, definitely donot post your scheme on any   board.  Pascal, email me.   

      

Don McDonald

   

   --- On Sat, 2/7/09, ricksked(at)embarqmail.com   <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>   wrote:   

   [quote]   

From:   ricksked(at)embarqmail.com <ricksked(at)embarqmail.com>

   Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

   To: "Rv" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

   Date: Saturday, February 7, 2009, 10:33 PM   [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com If I were you guys I suggest you not post your tax evasion schemes on thelist....government knowledge is dangerous...remember the TSA thread the otherday?Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T --

daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:55 am Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

I thought tax evasion was legal now?



In WI I believe we pay tax on the project at registration time.  That is why 

I am keeping detailed receipts of every purchase I have made during the 

entire build to present to the WI Dept. of Revenue so they may tax me 

accordingly.



do not archive



---

pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

Tim. I believe, had a writeup on this on his site.

In Ca you do too but if you pay along the way when they go to tax you once 

the FAA has your number as active in California the FTB comes out with a 

bill once you show that you already pay all taxes to build the plane and 

they don't pursue taxing you again, so you only pay taxes on the actual cost 

not the estiomated value- same thing you are saying just easier than doing 

it later with every receipt.



--------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave Leikam" <daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 6:54 AM

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior



[quote] 



 I thought tax evasion was legal now?



 In WI I believe we pay tax on the project at registration time.  That is 

 why I am keeping detailed receipts of every purchase I have made during 

 the entire build to present to the WI Dept. of Revenue so they may tax me 

 accordingly.



 do not archive



 ---

evmeg(at)snowcrest.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: Change in Economy... Change in Plans... Interior

How about using a mid time engine? You can take at least half off the price 

of a new one and still have 1000 hours of flight time. I have a nice one 

available for $14k with under 1000 hours SMOH if anybody is interested. 

Email for details.



Cheers...

Evan

---

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