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Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

Kolb guys,

 

  

 

   I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the wings.

Is there a proper way to drill the holes?  What I mean is, should I drill all the holes in the ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes through the finished faric, with a soldering iron?  Or, would it be better to do all the fabric, reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill through a final layers?

 

  It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the holes in the ribs first.  The reason I think this is because I can make a nice 90* drilling jig, to insure the holes are centered on the top of the rib.  I'm afraid if I try to drill the holes after the fabric and tape is on, I run the risk of off-centered holes...making a lop-sided rivet.

 

  Anybody?  Anybody?

 

Thanks,

Mike Welch

MkIII  finally (!!!) putting fabric on flaps.  So far, Poly Fiber on ALL tailfeathers, fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap.  One more flap, and then the wings!!  It's about time!!

 

  I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt Commander.

 

  He forwarded to me an email of some of the most awesome military photographs I've ever seen. 

(mostly flying photos)

 

  If you want to see them, I absolutely guarantee you'll be amazed, send me an email, and I'll forward them on to you.  They WILL be worth your time, unless you're a tree hugging hippie!



 

 

_________________________________________________________________

Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. 

http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

>  It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the holes in 

the ribs first.   >

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks,

 Mike Welch


	




That's the way I do it.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

Mike

Those are MY kinda pictures! -- pls send

Thanx

Russ



On Feb 11, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Mike Welch wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Kolb guys,



    I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the  

 wings.

 Is there a proper way to drill the holes?  What I mean is, should I  

 drill all the holes in the ribs FIRST, and then melt the holes  

 through the finished faric, with a soldering iron?  Or, would it be  

 better to do all the fabric, reinforcing tapes, etc, and then drill  

 through a final layers?



   It would seem to me the better way would be to drill all the  

 holes in the ribs first.  The reason I think this is because I can  

 make a nice 90* drilling jig, to insure the holes are centered on  

 the top of the rib.  I'm afraid if I try to drill the holes after  

 the fabric and tape is on, I run the risk of off-centered  

 holes...making a lop-sided rivet.



   Anybody?  Anybody?



 Thanks,

 Mike Welch

 MkIII  finally (!!!) putting fabric on flaps.  So far, Poly Fiber  

 on ALL tailfeathers, fuselage, both ailerons, & one flap.  One more  

 flap, and then the wings!!  It's about time!!



   I just received an email from my step-father, a WW II retired Lt  

 Commander.



   He forwarded to me an email of some of the most awesome military  

 photographs I've ever seen.

 (mostly flying photos)



   If you want to see them, I absolutely guarantee you'll be amazed,  

 send me an email, and I'll forward them on to you.  They WILL be  

 worth your time, unless you're a tree hugging hippie!



 _________________________________________________________________

 Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.

 http://windowslive.com/howitworks? 

 ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_022009

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

You need to be able to get ALL the drillings out of the rib tubes by blowing, beating on the the structure lightly to vibrate it or turning it over and over while doing the above.One little sharp chip will find it's way to a pressure point in the fabric and  cut a hole in it.You can find the holes with a straight pin or do it like John does.The drill can stick in the fabric and wad it up in a knot.Just my 2 cents worth.

                                                           G.Aman FS2  MK-3

   

 

   

 

   

 

 --

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:51 pm Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

I assume everybody knows about greasing the drill bit to capture chips --

On Feb 11, 2009, at 5:31 PM, zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote] You need to be able to get ALL the drillings out of the rib tubes by blowing, beating on the the structure lightly to vibrate it or turning it over and over while doing the above.One little sharp chip will find it's way to a pressure point in the fabric and  cut a hole in it.You can find the holes with a straight pin or do it like John does.The drill can stick in the fabric and wad it up in a knot.Just my 2 cents worth.

                                                           G.Aman FS2  MK-3



[b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:47 pm Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

Russ:

  

 Yes, that works good in other situations.   

  

 When working with fabric, the last thing you want  around it is grease.  Might have a hard time getting the grease cleaned up  prior to fabric application.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		      

I assume everybody knows about    greasing the drill bit to capture chips --    

	
   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jlsk1(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:11 pm Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

Mike, drill your holes 1st!!Use a string going across the tops & mark them , 

from root to tip, so they are all in a "Pretty-Pretty" line. Then drill them 

all with your 90 degree jig you mentioned. After drilling, blow out all the 

rib tubing with a compressor. Then stuff a tiny piece of fabric in each tube 

that you drilled, so that when you pull a rivet, if that little ball of the 

rivet falls off in the tube, it won`t find its way into the interior of the 

wing. If any shavings or rivet tips get into the wing, they will find 

somewhere comfortable to rest, & each time you fly, tiny vibrations will 

cause them to wear through the fabric from the inside out.

Jim Kmet

MK-3C

Soon to be flying with a 912.

Cookeville, TN

---

Rick Lewis

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Kingston, Tn.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military

I am attaching two pictures of how Brian, at Kolb factory, handles the loose pieces that may remain in the tubes.  He probably blows the tubes out first then he seals all the ends as show in the pictures.  Silicone rubber would probably be good to use here.  



Rick Lewis

KOLBS YELLOW PLANES CONSTURCTION 079.jpg

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KOLBS YELLOW PLANES CONSTURCTION 079.jpg

KOLBS YELLOW PLANES CONSTURCTION 078.jpg

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KOLBS YELLOW PLANES CONSTURCTION 078.jpg

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

<Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED  

 

  

< I have a question regarding the pop rivets on the fabric on the wings…  

  Anybody?  Anybody? Thanks, Mike Welch >>  

   

Mike –  

   

At the recommendation of a few fellow Kolbers, I rib stitched my wing fabric, and am very pleased with the outcome.  The bump from a stitch of twine is much smaller beneath the finishing tape than the bump from a rivet.  Plus, I like to think replacing the fabric will be easier, if I ever have to do it.  

   

Have you considered rib stitching?  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Mark-3, 912ul, “Magic Bike”  

Cedar Crest, NM  

   

      

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED   

 

  [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: Poly Fiber & pop rivet holes, plus some US Military photos

If it was me, I'd go with the Polyfiber  Installation Manual for covering, attachment, and finishing.

  

 I believe rib stitching was  to be used with  wooden ribs with flat rib caps, not round aluminum tubing.

  

 I have seen several Kolbs that were rib stitched  that did have stitching break or pull loose on top, rear, inboard section of  wings.  When this happens, fabric ballons up creating some serious  vibration problems.

  

 Unfortunately, I have had to recover several of my  wings, and helped remove fabric from other Kolb wings.  Removing the soft  aluminum fabric rivets was not a problem.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  

  

 [quote]    

      

    

At the recommendation of a few fellow Kolbers, I rib    stitched my wing fabric, and am very pleased with the outcome.  The bump    from a stitch of twine is much smaller beneath the finishing tape than the    bump from a rivet.  Plus, I like to think replacing the fabric will be    easier, if I ever have to do it.   

    

Have you considered rib stitching?   

    

Dennis Kirby   

 

[b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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