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edgraydallas

Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Dallas, Tx

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: Greenhouse construction

I haven't installed my lexan yet so still considering the various ideas on

securing the lexan.  Is there a downside to installing 2 or 3 machine screws

thru the lexan and the center rib to prevent the lexan pulling up in flight?

Or if the CF 46 flange is deforming, why not add a rivet thru the top in one

or two places?  As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs, I

think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes more

sense.  Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface?  They are accessible,

so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws.  I can also see how an

aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru tube so

that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.



Ed Gray KII building do not archive



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

I don't see the need or the safety in attaching the skylight to the  

center rib...that rib just isn't that well secured to anything to  

consider it a structural member, in my opinion. As to CF 46...you  

will have about 18-20 rivets (or machine screws in my case), through  

that member unless the Model II instructions are drastically  

different than the Model IV.



If the concern is "nutplates on the curved surface", that surface is  

not so curved that nutplates won't sit flat against it...or is that  

not the concern?



Maybe I just don't like changing windshields and that's why I went  

against the lexan idea, and used an LP Aeroplastics formed  

windshield, and anchor nuts. I've got a windshield that'll last a  

very long time (knock on wood), but when I need to change, it'll be  

an easy, one-handed job. Another factor...you mentioned using nylock  

nuts....awfully hard to get to when you decide to cover the butt rib  

area...not so accessible then.



I use anchor nuts for convenience....spend some time now and  

avoid...ever...to have to use two hands to get those nuts and bolts  

to go together.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 17, 2009, at 2:36 PM, Ed Gray wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I haven't installed my lexan yet so still considering the various  

 ideas on

 securing the lexan.  Is there a downside to installing 2 or 3  

 machine screws

 thru the lexan and the center rib to prevent the lexan pulling up  

 in flight?

 Or if the CF 46 flange is deforming, why not add a rivet thru the  

 top in one

 or two places?  As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt  

 ribs, I

 think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side  

 makes more

 sense.  Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface?  They are  

 accessible,

 so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws.  I can also see  

 how an

 aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru  

 tube so

 that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.



 Ed Gray KII building

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Greenhouse construction

 	  Quote: 	
		  As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs, I think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes more sense. 	




Ed, the classic 4 manual calls for an aluminum strip 13/32 X .02 epoxied to the underside of the butt rib cap strip. 



 	  Quote: 	
		  Then, why use nutplates on the curved surface? They are accessible, so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws. I can also see how an aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru tube so that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck. 	




I used 632 screws and nylock nuts.  They are a pain in the butt to install and remove.  I could drill rivets out and replace much faster.  To access 

the nylock nuts I did not cover the inside of the butt ribs.  I covered the bottom of it with fabric and the outside with lexan.  I can see into my wings while I'm flying.  Pictures attached.



As for the angle and cam lock, I would not drill any holes in the spar carry through tube other than those indicated in the manual.



For what its worth, the rib cap strips are just stapled and glued to the rib web.  There have been reports of the butt rib cap strip separating from the web due to the lift generated by the skylight.  The fix is to make some aluminum or stainless steel angles and install to butt rib and cap strip.



Damit, wide post again.  What am I doing wrong?

edited 2-18-09 to correct butt rib cap strip reinforcement for skylight rivets from stainless steel to aluminum.

Skylight outside.jpg

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Last edited by Tom Jones on Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:01 pm; edited 2 times in total

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

I like Lynn's answer here.  Although I didn't use the anchor nuts on my first airplane, I will on the second.  I remember all the anchor nuts I put on the engine baffling on the Lancair project to the owners minor objections.  I am sure that each annual, he will thank me under his breath for that one (at the time) perceived extravagance.

 

For what it's worth.  I replaced the windshield once.  That is two pieces of Lexan in 900 hours over eight years and the third sheet was not due

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Ed C I have to agree with Lynn. On my Model 3 the center rib is definitely not a structual rib. I would be afraid to attach the lexan to it. And C as someone else mentioned rivets in the outside ribs are easier and faster than screws with nuts. I need to check mine to see if there is the stainless steel strip on the bottom side of the rib C similar to the ribs in the wing. I have my cabin top on already and I don't think there is the metal strip on the bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are only through wood. Do you guys have the metal strip on the bottom side of the outside ribs?



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL





[quote] From: egraylaw(at)swbell.net

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Greenhouse construction

 Date: Tue C 17 Feb 2009 13:36:45 -0600

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw(at)swbell.net>

 

 I haven't installed my lexan yet so still considering the various ideas on

 securing the lexan. Is there a downside to installing 2 or 3 machine screws

 thru the lexan and the center rib to prevent the lexan pulling up in flight?

 Or if the CF 46 flange is deforming C why not add a rivet thru the top in one

 or two places? As to securing the sides of the lexan to the butt ribs C I

 think an aluminum strip on the bottom of the rib cap inner side makes more

 sense. Then C why use nutplates on the curved surface? They are accessible C

 so why not use nylok nuts with the truss screws. I can also see how an

 aluminum bracket could be installed on the center of the carry thru tube so

 that an additional camlock can be installed thru the turtledeck.

 

 Ed Gray KII building do not archive

 

 --

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

I'm no structural engineer, or an engineer of any kind (I've got  

enough problems without being burdened with the massive ego of an  

engineer) except "seat of the pants" engineering, but I'll bet the  

installation of anchor nuts, especially the long version...the  

K1000's, not the MK1000's...will distribute the load just as good  

(well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about  

here. How thick is this strip, and is it SS or aluminum?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:48 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Ed, I have to agree with Lynn. On my Model 3 the center rib is  

 definitely not a structual rib. I would be afraid to attach the  

 lexan to it. And, as someone else mentioned rivets in the outside  

 ribs are easier and faster than screws with nuts. I need to check  

 mine to see if there is the stainless steel strip on the bottom  

 side of the rib, similar to the ribs in the wing. I have my cabin  

 top on already and I don't think there is the metal strip on the  

 bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are only through wood. Do  

 you guys have the metal strip on the bottom side of the outside ribs?



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:13 am Post subject: Greenhouse construction

At 07:41 PM 2/17/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  but I'll bet the

installation of anchor nuts, especially the long version...the

K1000's, not the MK1000's...will distribute the load just as good

(well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about

here. How thick is this strip, and is it SS or aluminum?


	


Lynn,

         I think the anchor nuts will distribute the loads as well as 

the cap strip; and I are an engineer.  My cap strip is backed with 

about .03" aluminum, as there's no way to drill it without busting it 

out if it's full-hard stainless. However I used the aluminum backing 

strip AND anchor nuts, so I can't say which is better. I suspect 

lock-nuts and washers would be just fine, if you're willing to put up 

with the installation difficulty.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Greenhouse construction

Lynn Mattison wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm no structural engineer, or an engineer of any kind (I've got 

enough problems without being burdened with the massive ego of an 

engineer) except "seat of the pants" engineering, but I'll bet the 

installation of anchor nuts, especially the long version...the 

K1000's, not the MK1000's...will distribute the load just as good 

(well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about 

here. How thick is this strip, and is it SS or aluminum? 	




Lynn, the backing strip for the skylight to butt ribs rivet reinforcement is 13/32 x .02 aluminum.  I was wrong about it being stainless in my earlier post.  I edited that post to correct my mistake.



Pat Riley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have my cabin top on already and I don't think there is the metal strip on the bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are only through wood.ï¿½Do you guys have the metal strip on the bottom side of the outside ribs? 	




Pat, see my note to Lynn above, the rivet reinforcement strip is aluminum.  I did not use that strip.  I attached the skylight to the butt ribs with 632 stainless screws, washers and nylock nuts instead of rivets.  I'll shut up now and quit confusing people.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Last edited by Tom Jones on Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:05 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Yeah, I'd be worried about drilling stainless under those  

conditions...it could just push it away from its...glued on 

(?)...status, much the same as the drilling through the rib capstrips  

where the flaperon hinges attach. As you say, it's just the PITA of  

locknuts and washers that I try to avoid. I'd rather take a little  

longer attaching anchor nuts once than to do the loose nuts and  

washer thing ever.

Regarding the engineer comment, sorry Guy, I was feeling a bit  

aggravated toward an engineer friend. I'm sure I shared this gem with  

you before  "You can always tell an engineer...but you can't tell him  

much."  ...........one of my favorites. 

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive

On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:11 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 07:41 PM 2/17/2009, you wrote:

> but I'll bet the

> installation of anchor nuts, especially the long version...the

> K1000's, not the MK1000's...will distribute the load just as good

> (well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about

> here. How thick is this strip, and is it SS or aluminum?

 Lynn,

         I think the anchor nuts will distribute the loads as well  

 as the cap strip; and I are an engineer.  My cap strip is backed  

 with about .03" aluminum, as there's no way to drill it without  

 busting it out if it's full-hard stainless. However I used the  

 aluminum backing strip AND anchor nuts, so I can't say which is  

 better. I suspect lock-nuts and washers would be just fine, if  

 you're willing to put up with the installation difficulty.

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Now you've got me to thinking, Tom, whether my butt ribs have this  

backing under the capstrip, or if I only have it under my flaperon  

hinge bracket locations on the ribs...I'll have to look, if I can see  

in there. In either case, my installation has not given me any  

problems, so I'm going to leave well enough alone.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 18, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Tom Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn Mattison wrote:



> I'm no structural engineer, or an engineer of any kind (I've got

> enough problems without being burdened with the massive ego of an

> engineer) except "seat of the pants" engineering, but I'll bet the

> installation of anchor nuts, especially the long version...the

> K1000's, not the MK1000's...will distribute the load just as good

> (well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about

> here. How thick is this strip, and is it SS or aluminum?

 Lynn, the backing strip for the skylight to butt ribs rivet  

 reinforcement is 1/4 x .02 aluminum.  I was wrong about it being  

 stainless in my earlier post.  I edited that post to correct my  

 mistake.



 Pat Riley wrote:



> I have my cabin top on already and I don't think there is the  

> metal strip on the bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are  

> only through wood.ï¿½Do you guys have the metal strip on the  

> bottom side of the outside ribs?

 Pat, see my note to Lynn above, the rivet reinforcement strip is  

 aluminum.  I did not use that strip.  I attached the skylight to  

 the butt ribs with 632 stainless screws, washers and nylock nuts  

 instead of rivets.  I'll shut up no and quit confusing people.



 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 30824#230824

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:25 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs. There is no metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one wing tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that metal reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the rivets on the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do now? Do I remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top? Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets through the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally build C no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But C I don't know what type fasteners were used originally C as the windshield was not installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders manual. It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods being used by you guys to attach that cabin top.



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL



 

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 15:27:39 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Now you've got me to thinking C Tom C whether my butt ribs have this 

 backing under the capstrip C or if I only have it under my flaperon 

 hinge bracket locations on the ribs...I'll have to look C if I can see 

 in there. In either case C my installation has not given me any 

 problems C so I'm going to leave well enough alone.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 605 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying

 

 

 

 

 On Feb 18 C 2009 C at 9:42 AM C Tom Jones wrote:

 

 > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 >

 > Lynn Mattison wrote:

 >

 >> I'm no structural engineer C or an engineer of any kind (I've got

 >> enough problems without being burdened with the massive ego of an

 >> engineer) except "seat of the pants" engineering C but I'll bet the

 >> installation of anchor nuts C especially the long version...the

 >> K1000's C not the MK1000's..will distribute the load just as good

 >> (well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about

 >> here. How thick is this strip C and is it SS or aluminum?

 >

 >

 > Lynn C the backing strip for the skylight to butt ribs rivet 

 > reinforcement is 1/4 x .02 aluminum. I was wrong about it being 

 > stainless in my earlier post. I edited that post to correct my 

 > mistake.

 >

 > Pat Riley wrote:

 >

 >> I have my cabin top on already and I don't think there is the 

 >> metal strip on the bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are 

 >> only through wood.ï¿½Do you guys have the metal strip on the 

 >> bottom side of the outside ribs?

 >

 >

 > Pat C see my note to Lynn above C the rivet reinforcement strip is 

 > aluminum. I did not use that strip. I attached the skylight to 

 > the butt ribs with 632 stainless screws C washers and nylock nuts 

 > instead of rivets. I'll shut up no and quit confusing people.

 >

 > --------

 > Tom Jones

 > Classic IV

 > 503 Rotax C 72 inch Two blade Warp

 > Ellensburg C WA

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > Read this topic online here:

 >

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230824#230824

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

 

 

==========
	


[quote] 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Tom C Never shut up. And C you aren't confusing anyone. The strip in the last outboard rib on me plane was steel of some sort. But C these are experimentals C no 2 the same.

 Do not archive

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Greenhouse construction

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 06:42:48 -0800

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 Lynn Mattison wrote:

 > I'm no structural engineer C or an engineer of any kind (I've got 

 > enough problems without being burdened with the massive ego of an 

 > engineer) except "seat of the pants" engineering C but I'll bet the 

 > installation of anchor nuts C especially the long version...the 

 > K1000's C not the MK1000's..will distribute the load just as good 

 > (well?) as the stainless steel or aluminum strip that I've read about 

 > here. How thick is this strip C and is it SS or aluminum? 

 Lynn C the backing strip for the skylight to butt ribs rivet reinforcement is 1/4 x .02 aluminum. I was wrong about it being stainless in my earlier post. I edited that post to correct my mistake.

 Pat Riley wrote:

 > I have my cabin top on already and I don't think there is the metal strip on the bottom of the rib. I am afraid my rivets are only through wood.ï¿½Do you guys have the metal strip on the bottom side of the outside ribs? 

 Pat C see my note to Lynn above C the rivet reinforcement strip is aluminum. I did not use that strip. I attached the skylight to the butt ribs with 632 stainless screws C washers and nylock nuts instead of rivets. I'll shut up no and quit confusing people.

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax C 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg C WA

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230824#230824

======================

&gt======

[quote] 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

That metal reinforcing strip is only good in the area near where the  

rivets go through it, and a little distance beyond. So the rivets, if  

you choose to use them with a large-area...relatively  

speaking...washer, they should serve roughly the same purpose. Of  

course, the addition of the metal angles added to the rib/capstrip  

junction sounds like a good idea. I can't remember whether I did this  

or not. If I didn't, it sounds like it is unnecessary, as I've been  

tossed about a little bit in mine and no apparent damage done.



I would never use metal screws into the wood...maybe only to get home  

in an emergency.



Well, being as how the builder's manual that I have calls for  

drilling and cleco'ing the skylight, and doesn't mention doing any  

attaching beyond that, I'd say they think the cleco's will hold it  

on! Keep in mind that I have the Model IV manual and yours may  

actually tell you how to finish up the job. Kidding aside, it all   

depends on a few factors...what is the Vne of your plane, and how  

hard will you fly it? How many violent storms or weather will you fly  

in? Will the plane see turbulence? Of course, none of us know these  

answers..most of them anyway, so we try to follow the manual or later  

service bulletins, or call those building the plane now...John  

McBean....and see if any new methods have come into existence.



When I installed my wing tips, I ordered the "removable wing tip kit"  

consisting of...what else?....Aluminum strips, K1000 anchor nuts and  

machine screws to attach the tips after the anchor-nutted strips were  

flush-riveted in place. More work? You bet, but once done, it's done  

right, and they can be removed with one hand, a screwdriver, and no  

drill.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:23 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs. There is no  

 metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one wing  

 tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that metal  

 reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the rivets on  

 the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do now? Do I  

 remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top?  

 Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets through  

 the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally build,  

 no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But, I don't know what  

 type fasteners were used originally, as the windshield was not  

 installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders manual.  

 It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods being  

 used by you guys to attach that cabin top.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Lynn C Agreed C sheetmetal or wood screws into the wood C I wasn't considering. I believe someone said thats what they had though. At this point I am leaning towards aluminum pop rivets with an aluminum washer on the bottom side.



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL



 

[quote] From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 20:30:51 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 That metal reinforcing strip is only good in the area near where the 

 rivets go through it C and a little distance beyond. So the rivets C if 

 you choose to use them with a large-area...relatively 

 speaking...washer C they should serve roughly the same purpose. Of 

 course C the addition of the metal angles added to the rib/capstrip 

 junction sounds like a good idea. I can't remember whether I did this 

 or not. If I didn't C it sounds like it is unnecessary C as I've been 

 tossed about a little bit in mine and no apparent damage done.

 

 I would never use metal screws into the wood...maybe only to get home 

 in an emergency.

 

 Well C being as how the builder's manual that I have calls for 

 drilling and cleco'ing the skylight C and doesn't mention doing any 

 attaching beyond that C I'd say they think the cleco's will hold it 

 on! Keep in mind that I have the Model IV manual and yours may 

 actually tell you how to finish up the job. Kidding aside C it all 

 depends on a few factors...what is the Vne of your plane C and how 

 hard will you fly it? How many violent storms or weather will you fly 

 in? Will the plane see turbulence? Of course C none of us know these 

 answers..most of them anyway C so we try to follow the manual or later 

 service bulletins C or call those building the plane now...John 

 McBean....and see if any new methods have come into existence.

 

 When I installed my wing tips C I ordered the "removable wing tip kit" 

 consisting of...what else?....Aluminum strips C K1000 anchor nuts and 

 machine screws to attach the tips after the anchor-nutted strips were 

 flush-riveted in place. More work? You bet C but once done C it's done 

 right C and they can be removed with one hand C a screwdriver C and no 

 drill.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 605 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying

 

 

 

 

 On Feb 18 C 2009 C at 7:23 PM C patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs. There is no 

 > metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one wing 

 > tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that metal 

 > reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the rivets on 

 > the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do now? Do I 

 > remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top? 

 > Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets through 

 > the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally build C 

 > no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But C I don't know what 

 > type fasteners were used originally C as the windshield was not 

 > installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders manual. 

 > It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods being 

 > used by you guys to attach that cabin top.

 >

 > Pat Reilly

 > Mod 3 582 Rebuild[b]&gt===

 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Probably a good plan, Pat...maybe even steel washers underneath, just  

to keep a flat surface contact instead of a possible dished one.  

Important to get a good diametral fit to the rivet, though, with  

either. Another thing to consider...aluminum mandrels, or steel?  

Maybe a knowledgeable engineer might offer some help here. : ) An  

aluminum mandrel might not allow enough squeeze before popping, while  

a steel mandrel might squeeze too much.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:44 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, Agreed, sheetmetal or wood screws into the wood, I wasn't  

 considering. I believe someone said thats what they had though. At  

 this point I am leaning towards aluminum pop rivets with an  

 aluminum washer on the bottom side.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL





 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:30:51 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > That metal reinforcing strip is only good in the area near where the

 > rivets go through it, and a little distance beyond. So the  

 rivets, if

 > you choose to use them with a large-area...relatively

 > speaking...washer, they should serve roughly the same purpose. Of

 > course, the addition of the metal angles added to the rib/capstrip

 > junction sounds like a good idea. I can't remember whether I did  

 this

 > or not. If I didn't, it sounds like it is unnecessary, as I've been

 > tossed about a little bit in mine and no apparent damage done.

 >

 > I would never use metal screws into the wood...maybe only to get  

 home

 > in an emergency.

 >

 > Well, being as how the builder's manual that I have calls for

 > drilling and cleco'ing the skylight, and doesn't mention doing any

 > attaching beyond that, I'd say they think the cleco's will hold it

 > on! Keep in mind that I have the Model IV manual and yours may

 > actually tell you how to finish up the job. Kidding aside, it all

 > depends on a few factors...what is the Vne of your plane, and how

 > hard will you fly it? How many violent storms or weather will you  

 fly

 > in? Will the plane see turbulence? Of course, none of us know these

 > answers..most of them anyway, so we try to follow the manual or  

 later

 > service bulletins, or call those building the plane now...John

 > McBean....and see if any new methods have come into existence.

 >

 > When I installed my wing tips, I ordered the "removable wing tip  

 kit"

 > consisting of...what else?....Aluminum strips, K1000 anchor nuts and

 > machine screws to attach the tips after the anchor-nutted strips  

 were

 > flush-riveted in place. More work? You bet, but once done, it's done

 > right, and they can be removed with one hand, a screwdriver, and no

 > drill.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 > New skis done and flying

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:23 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 >

 > > Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs. There is no

 > > metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one wing

 > > tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that metal

 > > reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the rivets on

 > > the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do now? Do I

 > > remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top?

 > > Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets through

 > > the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally  

 build,

 > > no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But, I don't know  

 what

 > > type fasteners were used originally, as the windshield was not

 > > installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders manual.

 > > It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods being

 > > used by you guys to attach that cabin top.

 > >

 > > Pat Reilly

 > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild>===

 >

 >

 >

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Hey Guys C One thing I am doing that no one else is doing. You all have the heads of your screws or rivets bearing on the Lexan. I am using a 1/16th" x 3/4" wide strip of aluminum on top of the Lexan drilled out for the row of rivets front to back on the ribs and cross wise above the spar carry through tubes. I didn't do it C but if I was to do it again C I would put some sort of rubber tape on the bottom side of the aluminum strip to cushion it slightly. I don't know it just looked like a good way to spread the holding force of the rivets over a large area of the Lexan to me. I really don't like a bolt or rivet head bearing on a piece of plexi C even with a fender washer. I did the same thing on the plexi observation doors that I made.

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

  From: patreilly43(at)hotmail.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Greenhouse construction

Date: Thu C 19 Feb 2009 01:44:12 +0000

  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}  Lynn C Agreed C sheetmetal or wood screws into the wood C I wasn't considering. I believe someone said thats what they had though. At this point I am leaning towards aluminum pop rivets with an aluminum washer on the bottom side.

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 20:30:51 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 That metal reinforcing strip is only good in the area near where the 

 rivets go through it C and a little distance beyond. So the rivets C if 

 you choose to use them with a large-area...relatively 

 speaking...washer C they should serve roughly the same purpose. Of 

 course C the addition of the metal angles added to the rib/capstrip 

 junction sounds like a good idea. I can't remember whether I did this 

 or not. If I didn't C it sounds like it is unnecessary C as I've been 

 tossed about a little bit in mine and no apparent damage done.

 I would never use metal screws into the wood...maybe only to get home 

 in an emergency.

 Well C being as how the builder's manual that I have calls for 

 drilling and cleco'ing the skylight C and doesn't mention doing any 

 attaching beyond that C I'd say they think the cleco's will hold it 

 on! Keep in mind that I have the Model IV manual and yours may 

 actually tell you how to finish up the job. Kidding aside C it all 

 depends on a few factors...what is the Vne of your plane C and how 

 hard will you fly it? How many violent storms or weather will you fly 

 in? Will the plane see turbulence? Of course C none of us know these 

 answers..most of them anyway C so we try to follow the manual or later 

 service bulletins C or call those building the plane now...John 

 McBean....and see if any new methods have come into existence.

 When I installed my wing tips C I ordered the "removable wing tip kit" 

 consisting of...what else?....Aluminum strips C K1000 anchor nuts and 

 machine screws to attach the tips after the anchor-nutted strips were 

 flush-riveted in place. More work? You bet C but once done C it's done 

 right C and they can be removed with one hand C a screwdriver C and no 

 drill.

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 605 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying

 On Feb 18 C 2009 C at 7:23 PM C patrick reilly wrote:

 > Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs. There is no 

 > metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one wing 

 > tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that metal 

 > reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the rivets on 

 > the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do now? Do I 

 > remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top? 

 > Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets through 

 > the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally build C 

 > no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But C I don't know what 

 > type fasteners were used originally C as the windshield was not 

 > installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders manual. 

 > It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods being 

 > used by you guys to attach that cabin top.

 >

 > Pat Reilly

 > Mod 3 582 Rebuild>===

 	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

ronics.com

ww.matronics.com/contribution

[/b]  [quote][b]

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:04 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Lynn C Lay off those engineers. The only problem with them is someone has to tell them when the project is done and to stop engineering or they just go on engineering into infinity. OK I'll use steel washers. I'm easy. I'm also dyslextic. I'ts not dyslextic being easy you know.

 do not archive



Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL



 

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 21:04:23 -0500

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 Probably a good plan C Pat...maybe even steel washers underneath C just 

 to keep a flat surface contact instead of a possible dished one. 

 Important to get a good diametral fit to the rivet C though C with 

 either. Another thing to consider...aluminum mandrels C or steel? 

 Maybe a knowledgeable engineer might offer some help here. : ) An 

 aluminum mandrel might not allow enough squeeze before popping C while 

 a steel mandrel might squeeze too much.

 

 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 605 hrs

 Sensenich 62x46

 Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 New skis done and flying

 

 

 

 

 On Feb 18 C 2009 C at 8:44 PM C patrick reilly wrote:

 

 > Lynn C Agreed C sheetmetal or wood screws into the wood C I wasn't 

 > considering. I believe someone said thats what they had though. At 

 > this point I am leaning towards aluminum pop rivets with an 

 > aluminum washer on the bottom side.

 >

 > Pat Reilly

 > Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 > Rockford C IL

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 > > Date: Wed C 18 Feb 2009 20:30:51 -0500

 > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > >

 > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > >

 > > That metal reinforcing strip is only good in the area near where the

 > > rivets go through it C and a little distance beyond. So the 

 > rivets C if

 > > you choose to use them with a large-area...relatively

 > > speaking...washer C they should serve roughly the same purpose. Of

 > > course C the addition of the metal angles added to the rib/capstrip

 > > junction sounds like a good idea. I can't remember whether I did 

 > this

 > > or not. If I didn't C it sounds like it is unnecessary C as I've been

 > > tossed about a little bit in mine and no apparent damage done.

 > >

 > > I would never use metal screws into the wood...maybe only to get 

 > home

 > > in an emergency.

 > >

 > > Well C being as how the builder's manual that I have calls for

 > > drilling and cleco'ing the skylight C and doesn't mention doing any

 > > attaching beyond that C I'd say they think the cleco's will hold it

 > > on! Keep in mind that I have the Model IV manual and yours may

 > > actually tell you how to finish up the job. Kidding aside C it all

 > > depends on a few factors...what is the Vne of your plane C and how

 > > hard will you fly it? How many violent storms or weather will you 

 > fly

 > > in? Will the plane see turbulence? Of course C none of us know these

 > > answers..most of them anyway C so we try to follow the manual or 

 > later

 > > service bulletins C or call those building the plane now...John

 > > McBean....and see if any new methods have come into existence.

 > >

 > > When I installed my wing tips C I ordered the "removable wing tip 

 > kit"

 > > consisting of...what else?....Aluminum strips C K1000 anchor nuts and

 > > machine screws to attach the tips after the anchor-nutted strips 

 > were

 > > flush-riveted in place. More work? You bet C but once done C it's done

 > > right C and they can be removed with one hand C a screwdriver C and no

 > > drill.

 > >

 > > Lynn Matteson

 > > Kitfox IV Speedster C taildragger

 > > Jabiru 2200 C #2062 C 605 hrs

 > > Sensenich 62x46

 > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 > > New skis done and flying

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > On Feb 18 C 2009 C at 7:23 PM C patrick reilly wrote:

 > >

 > > > Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs. There is no

 > > > metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one wing

 > > > tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that metal

 > > > reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the rivets on

 > > > the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do now? Do I

 > > > remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top?

 > > > Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets through

 > > > the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally 

 > build C

 > > > no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But C I don't know 

 > what

 > > > type fasteners were used originally C as the windshield was not

 > > > installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders manual.

 > > > It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods being

 > > > used by you guys to attach that cabin top.

 > > >

 > > > Pat Reilly

 > > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild>===

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > ========== _- 

 > =================================== _- 

 > contribution_- 

 > ================================

&gt==================
	


[quote] 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: Greenhouse construction

At 04:23 PM 2/18/2009, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Do I remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the cabin top?


	


Pat,

         I'm a little confused. How did you confirm there was no 

metal backing if you can't get to the underside without removing 

fabric? I'm definitely not understanding your configuration.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: Greenhouse construction

LP Aeroplastics sells a dense foam tape, self-adhesive, for that very  

purpose. I still say the rivet idea is not the best, because of no  

way to control tension, and the bearing area is too small. You've  

covered the bearing area with the aluminum strips, but is it a good- 

looking installation?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying





On Feb 18, 2009, at 11:38 PM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hey Guys, One thing I am doing that no one else is doing. You all  

 have the heads of your screws or rivets bearing on the Lexan. I am  

 using a 1/16th" x 3/4" wide strip of aluminum on top of the Lexan  

 drilled out for the row of rivets front to back on the ribs and  

 cross wise above the spar carry through tubes. I didn't do it, but  

 if I was to do it again, I would put some sort of rubber tape on  

 the bottom side of the aluminum strip to cushion it slightly. I  

 don't know it just looked like a good way to spread the holding  

 force of the rivets over a large area of the Lexan to me. I really  

 don't like a bolt or rivet head bearing on a piece of plexi, even  

 with a fender washer. I did the same thing on the plexi observation  

 doors that I made.



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:30 am Post subject: Greenhouse construction

Good one, Pat. : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

New skis done and flying

do not archive



On Feb 19, 2009, at 12:02 AM, patrick reilly wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn, Lay off those engineers. The only problem with them is  

 someone has to tell them when the project is done and to stop  

 engineering or they just go on engineering into infinity. OK I'll  

 use steel washers. I'm easy. I'm also dyslextic. I'ts not dyslextic  

 being easy you know.

 do not archive



 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford, IL





 > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:04:23 -0500

 > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 >

 > 

 >

 > Probably a good plan, Pat...maybe even steel washers underneath,  

 just

 > to keep a flat surface contact instead of a possible dished one.

 > Important to get a good diametral fit to the rivet, though, with

 > either. Another thing to consider...aluminum mandrels, or steel?

 > Maybe a knowledgeable engineer might offer some help here. : ) An

 > aluminum mandrel might not allow enough squeeze before popping,  

 while

 > a steel mandrel might squeeze too much.

 >

 > Lynn Matteson

 > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

 > Sensenich 62x46

 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 > New skis done and flying

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > On Feb 18, 2009, at 8:44 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 >

 > > Lynn, Agreed, sheetmetal or wood screws into the wood, I wasn't

 > > considering. I believe someone said thats what they had though. At

 > > this point I am leaning towards aluminum pop rivets with an

 > > aluminum washer on the bottom side.

 > >

 > > Pat Reilly

 > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 > > Rockford, IL

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > >

 > > > From: lynnmatt(at)jps.net

 > > > Subject: Re: Re: Greenhouse construction

 > > > Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:30:51 -0500

 > > > To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 > > >

 > > > 

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > > >

 > > > That metal reinforcing strip is only good in the area near  

 where the

 > > > rivets go through it, and a little distance beyond. So the

 > > rivets, if

 > > > you choose to use them with a large-area...relatively

 > > > speaking...washer, they should serve roughly the same  

 purpose. Of

 > > > course, the addition of the metal angles added to the rib/ 

 capstrip

 > > > junction sounds like a good idea. I can't remember whether I did

 > > this

 > > > or not. If I didn't, it sounds like it is unnecessary, as  

 I've been

 > > > tossed about a little bit in mine and no apparent damage done.

 > > >

 > > > I would never use metal screws into the wood...maybe only to get

 > > home

 > > > in an emergency.

 > > >

 > > > Well, being as how the builder's manual that I have calls for

 > > > drilling and cleco'ing the skylight, and doesn't mention  

 doing any

 > > > attaching beyond that, I'd say they think the cleco's will  

 hold it

 > > > on! Keep in mind that I have the Model IV manual and yours may

 > > > actually tell you how to finish up the job. Kidding aside, it  

 all

 > > > depends on a few factors...what is the Vne of your plane, and  

 how

 > > > hard will you fly it? How many violent storms or weather will  

 you

 > > fly

 > > > in? Will the plane see turbulence? Of course, none of us know  

 these

 > > > answers..most of them anyway, so we try to follow the manual or

 > > later

 > > > service bulletins, or call those building the plane now...John

 > > > McBean....and see if any new methods have come into existence.

 > > >

 > > > When I installed my wing tips, I ordered the "removable wing tip

 > > kit"

 > > > consisting of...what else?....Aluminum strips, K1000 anchor  

 nuts and

 > > > machine screws to attach the tips after the anchor-nutted strips

 > > were

 > > > flush-riveted in place. More work? You bet, but once done,  

 it's done

 > > > right, and they can be removed with one hand, a screwdriver,  

 and no

 > > > drill.

 > > >

 > > > Lynn Matteson

 > > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

 > > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs

 > > > Sensenich 62x46

 > > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system

 > > > New skis done and flying

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > > On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:23 PM, patrick reilly wrote:

 > > >

 > > > > Man Oh Man. I checked the bottom side of my butt ribs.  

 There is no

 > > > > metal reinforcing strip on the bottom! I had to repair one  

 wing

 > > > > tip. The last rib on the outside end of the wing had that  

 metal

 > > > > reinforcing strip on the bottom of the rib to keep the  

 rivets on

 > > > > the wing tip from pulling through. What the hell do I do  

 now? Do I

 > > > > remove the fabric covering on the rib and bolt down the  

 cabin top?

 > > > > Do I use sheet metal screws in the wood? Or are the rivets  

 through

 > > > > the wood just fine. The plane flew for 200 hrs as originally

 > > build,

 > > > > no metal reinforcing strip on the underside. But, I don't know

 > > what

 > > > > type fasteners were used originally, as the windshield was not

 > > > > installed when I got it. I guess I better look at builders  

 manual.

 > > > > It seems that there are an awful lot of different methods  

 being

 > > > > used by you guys to attach that cabin top.

 > > > >

 > > > > Pat Reilly

 > > > > Mod 3 582 Rebuild>===

 > > >

 > > >

 > > >

 > > ========== _-

 > > =================================== _-

 > > contribution_-

 > > ================================

 >==================

 >

 >

 >

 ============================================================ _- 

 ============================================================ _- 

 contribution_- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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