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Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

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mcjon77

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Chicago

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:16 am Post subject: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

Hi guys,



I would like to find out from the scratch builders, regardless of which model zenith you built/are building, what parts did you make for yourself and what did you buy from zenith?  Also, if you were doing it over again, are there any parts that you would have bought instead of building or built instead of buying like you did before?



Thanks,

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Jon McDonald
Building Sonex #1287
Next up CH 701 Very Happy

sky_ranger161

Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Posts: 91

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:19 am Post subject: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

Wow Jon. Good question.



I did my own informal cost analysis on most parts - meaning I just figured out whether it was cheaper to make it or buy it. I took into account whether I had the tooling or ingenuity to make the part, or if my enthusiasm level was up to the job. Here's a good example - the top rudder hinge. It's actually cheaper to buy the finished, correctly bent, drilled part from Zenith than it is to buy the raw materials to make it. It's a different thickness from most standard parts and I didn't have any scraps lying around to make it with.



I also bought pre-drilled fuselage bottom and side skins. When added up, the cost of the raw material was nearly the same as the pre-drilled cousin. There would have been some extra to make other parts if I had bought the raw material, but at that point in my build not having to lay out all of those rivet lines was worth the difference - and again, the difference wasn't much. After working with the pre-drilled skins, I'd HIGHLY recommend them. They take a task that's very labor-intensive and has a high probability for error and makes it an afterthought. Also for me one of the most unpleasant jobs of building is handling large, unwieldy sheets of aluminum and trimming them down to "skin size." Buying the pre-drilled, pre-cut skins takes care of that too.



Here are a couple more things I bought: Front bottom landing gear bearing (nylon), rudder pedal bearing (nylon), Firewall (cheaper or equal to raw material). I think that's about it.



On the other side of the coin, I made all of my welded parts and I'd certainly do it again - especially when I can make a set of rudder pedals for $20 worth of tubing or buy them for nearly $300.



If you're going to scratchbuild, I'd suggest at least trying to make as many parts as you feel up to. For me it was about the educational process of fabricating metal as well as building the plane. I owe all of my fabrication knowledge (such as it is) to all of the parts that never even made it into the plane. They went straight into the trash bucket.



Good luck with the build.



Debo Cox

Nags Head, NC

Scratchbuilt XL/Corvair

www.mykitlog.com/debo

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Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

Jon,



I'm building almost everything I can.  All the material for most of the airplane came at one time from a builder who purchased it then lost the ability to get started. He sold it all to me along with some tools for his cost.



I also bought the upper rudder hinge, Trim Servos, Fuel caps and fittings and a hardware kit from Zenith.  I purchased the material for the firewall from a heating and cooling shop for $24.



I am having a blast building.  For the last couple of weeks I'm working on a tool to make an aluminum nose bowl copied from the WW design.



I may draw the line at the propeller and buy that also.

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Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
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leinad

Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 283
Location: Central Virginia

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Re: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

The only thing I've purchased from Zenith has been the plans.    In my opinion the thing that consumes the most time building from scratch is sourcing materials.  I've purchased a number things only to find out that they would not work and then had to find the right thing.

I would disagree with the post that said you'll have to buy a ton of fancy tools.  I've done almost everything with simple to make wooden jigs and fixtures and tools most home handyman would likely have.  I did purchase an oxy-acetylene torch.  I even made a bending brake out of wood.

I'm working on wing assembly now and then the only things left are to make a cowl, and then paint.

Dan

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Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine

William Dominguez

Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 118

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

So far, I've made almost all of the parts myself. Still I have ordered a few things from ZAC, they are:



- All rivets, except for the fuel tank rivets. (I riveted and pros-sealed my tanks using self plugging rivets).

- Fuel tank sender and fuel level gauge. (I shopped around and found that Zenith have a very competitive price for them)

- Flap nylon control plate. 

- Center spar upright angular. (didn't find them at ACS)

- Center spar bolts.



I will buy the landing gear kit if it comes with all the parts like axles, rims etc. 



Will I do it again? definitely yes, I enjoy the process of making my own parts. 



As other have said, the primary motivation for scratch building should be for the enjoyment of it. There is money to be saved but it is at the expense of time, if you won't enjoy it, don't do it, get the kit. You can  expect to save somewhere between 6 to 10 grands over the total cost of the project. If you are going for a 22k engine and FWF, 10K avionics, leather seats and other luxuries, saving 6 to 10 grands might not be much percentage wise.



I disagree about the need for expensive tools, you are not going to spend the saving difference in tools, that's a myth. 



A bending brake is a most for a scratch builder, it is the single tool that will save you the most time if you have a good one. It is not difficult to make but most DIY brakes clamps the material with screws or C clamps alongside of the bed. Commercial brakes clamps the material by lowering a lever in each side. This make a huge time saving difference because there are lots of bending to do and the time you spend tightening C clamps or screws really add up. It is not difficult to adapt this type of mechanism to a DIY brake if you are a little creative. Larry McFarland's brake is the only DIY  brake that I know with side levers for clamping. But you'll need access to a machine shop to make some of its parts. There is also Dave Clay's brake, it is easy to make with no need for machining.

William Dominguez

Zodiac 601XL Plans

Miami Florida

http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom





--- On Sun, 3/1/09, mcjon77 <mcjon77(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: mcjon77 <mcjon77(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 6:16 AM



--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mcjon77" <[url=/mc/compose?to=mcjon77(at)yahoo.com]mcjon77(at)yahoo.com[/url]>



Hi guys,



I would like to find out from the scratch builders, regardless  of which model zenith you built/are building, what parts did you make for yourself and what did you buy from zenith?  Also, if you were doing it over again, are there any parts that you would have bought instead of building or built instead of buying like you did before?



Thanks,



--------

Jon McDonald

Building Sonex #1287

Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232567#232567//www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target="_blank">http://www.mat;                     -Maww.matronics.com/contribution" =======





	
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William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom

wjones(at)brazoriainet.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:20 pm Post subject: Scratch builders, what did you build/what did you buy?

Hi William ,I plans built my 601XL and built my  landing gear without any problems .If you consider building your gear contact me  off list and I will share my technique with you .

 Wade  Jones  South Texas

601XL  Franklin 0-235

 [quote]   ---

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