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Cabin Cover Fit

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mhealydds(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:11 pm Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

Hey all - I am new to forum and I have been hesitant to post as I have been able to find most of answers by looking at past posts or talking to my EAA tech counselor, but I haven't found a good answer yet to my latest concern.



The build has gone great, but the cabin top has given my some problems. I spent a lot of time getting it to fit and now that finally got it to slide into place I have a gap problem - see pics. I assume I can add resin with some filler to fill in gap and re-sand to fit, but my concern is that I have a tight fit already and I think is has somewhat do with head of universal rivets in door opening of fuselage, but then again I see other builders with a better fit. Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Matt

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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

We usually lay in a fairly healthy head of medium thickness flox before setting in the cabin top so it fills any voids like that. After we tighten all the screws we make sure to remove any excess before it cures. A tight and clean trim is the best way to achieve a good fit, but the flox helps in areas that don't fit as well. 



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

352-427-0285

jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)

Sent from my iPad



On May 16, 2015, at 9:06 PM, Matthew Healy <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Hey all - I am new to forum and I have been hesitant to post as I have been able to find most of answers by looking at past posts or talking to my EAA tech counselor, but I haven't found a good answer yet to my latest concern.



The build has gone great, but the cabin top has given my some problems. I spent a lot of time getting it to fit and now that finally got it to slide into place I have a gap problem - see pics. I assume I can add resin with some filler to fill in gap and re-sand to fit, but my concern is that I have a tight fit already and I think is has somewhat do with head of universal rivets in door opening of fuselage, but then again I see other builders with a better fit. Any suggestions on how to proceed?

Matt



 

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[b]

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

I do not recall the fiberglass resting on any AN470 heads.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Rocketman1988

Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 63

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

Hey, by chance do you have the QB fuselage?  If so, go back through the plans and you will find that those AN470 rivets that are in the way are REALLY supposed to be AN426 flush rivets.  I had this same issue and it literally took more than an hour to find it in the plans.  There should be NO AN470 rivet heads protruding in the area where the cabin top sit in the fuselage sides.



I think it was about 8 rivets, four on each side.  They were pretty easy to drill out, dimple, and replace with AN426 rivets...



It is one of the issues I found with the QB kits...

mhealydds

Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Wichita, KS

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

I do have a QB fuse and indeed the 426 rivets are placed in error. That is why Bob doesn't remember having them there. So now that I have already trimmed to much and cannot get it to clamp flush in sides of door opening (sits flush on bottom) how should I proceed. Obviously replace rivets, but then what do you think. Epoxy resin with flox and re-sand to fit? If so, will it adhere and be strong enough?



This is one of many problems I have had with QB fuse, just didn't catch this one early enough- wish I would have just build it myself

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

Yes, like Jesse mentioned, apply flox and bolt it down.   It's a pain to sand, so don't got crazy with the flox.  



I got mine to fit pretty good.   I used flox to fill in the door bottom on the interior then added micro as a top coat and to fill in all the imperfections around the edges. 



Sent from my iPhone



On May 18, 2015, at 1:41 PM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com> wrote:






I do have a QB fuse and indeed the 426 rivets are placed in error. That is why Bob doesn't remember having them there. So now that I have already trimmed to much and cannot get it to clamp flush in sides of door opening (sits flush on bottom) how should I proceed. Obviously replace rivets, but then what do you think. Epoxy resin with flox and re-sand to fit? If so, will it adhere and be strong enough?



This is one of many problems I have had with QB fuse, just didn't catch this one early enough- wish I would have just build it myself





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442247#442247

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:17 am Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

This is a single step fix after you replace the rivets.  Apply a liberal

amount of flox, install the cabin top, clean up the excess flox once the top

is seated (and before it sets) and insert the bolts.  Remember to not

tighten the bolts all the way until after the flox sets so you don't deform

the cabin top.  As you will have a lot of flox to fill the gaps, check that

the sides and bottom are straight as you go.  Once this is done the top is

there forever so don't scrimp on the flox.  It is much easier to clean up

the flox as you go then to try to fill voids after the top is on.  The flox

should not be too runny or dry.  Something on the wet side of cake frosting.



When done there a several options to fill in the door bottom.  On Van's demo

plane they used a piece of wood.  The attached photos show how I added some

rigid foam and then 8 bids or so of glass over the top and down the inside

to aluminum.  Some micro, sanding and ready for paint.  The last two photos

show how I back fitted the aftermarket door cam lock.  I suspect this turned

out easier than trying to glass around it.  What would we do without Dremel

tools?



Carl



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philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:52 am Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

I'd consider rubbing a mold release all over the aluminum and then bolting it into place with a handful of shims to fill the gap.  This means the shims would be the same width as an AN470 head rivet it tall.



That would locate the cabin time in the correct position.   With it in that position, I'd then squeeze some epoxy/flox into the gap where the shims are between the aluminum and the cabin top.  You can use a large syringe to pack the flox way back into the gap first and then fill until you get the the outer edge.   Wipe the excess away.



Once it has cured, you can tap the shims out and fill the hole where the shims were the same way.



Once that has cured, you can take the cabin top off and inspect it to make sure there are no voids and if there are then you can just fill them to match while it's off.



You will end up with the most perfectly fit cabin top of the group that way.   You're basically using your airframe as a mold and building the cabin top to fit it perfectly.



Phil



On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Bob Leffler <rv(at)thelefflers.com (rv(at)thelefflers.com)>

 

 Yes, like Jesse mentioned, apply flox and bolt it down.   It's a pain to sand, so don't got crazy with the flox.

 

 I got mine to fit pretty good.   I used flox to fill in the door bottom on the interior then added micro as a top coat and to fill in all the imperfections around the edges.

 

 Sent from my iPhone

 

 On May 18, 2015, at 1:41 PM, mhealydds <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "mhealydds" <mhealydds(at)gmail.com (mhealydds(at)gmail.com)>

 

 I do have a QB fuse and indeed the 426 rivets are placed in error. That is why Bob doesn't remember having them there. So now that I have already trimmed to much and cannot get it to clamp flush in sides of door opening (sits flush on bottom) how should I proceed. Obviously replace rivets, but then what do you think. Epoxy resin with flox and re-sand to fit? If so, will it adhere and be strong enough?

 

 This is one of many problems I have had with QB fuse, just didn't catch this one early enough- wish I would have just build it myself

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=442247#442247

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



[b]

Rocketman1988

Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 63

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

Boy, I dunno if I would try to remove the top after the epoxy has set, even WITH mold release.  With the imperfect surfaces of the cabin top, I would think that you would damage it trying to remove it with the perfect fit you created.  Unfortunately, you would then be stuck with a cabin top that is not bonded to the surrounding epoxy due to the mold release, and no good way to remove it without breaking it.



Make sure the cabin top is in the right position and fill'r'up with flox...then tighten the bolts when flox is cured...

mhealydds

Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Wichita, KS

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

So my concern with this approach is that will I have a problem clamping cabin cover to fuselage to match drill bolt holes with that large of a gap. You are saying just not worry about gap until final seating and they secure with flox an not try to build up prior to final seating?



Matt

mhealydds

Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Wichita, KS

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

Sorry just saw post about using mold release before final seating before posting last reply. Any thoughts what would be better?



Matt

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

I am certainly no fiberglass expert, but I'd be tempted to lay down a couple of layers of fiberglass/epoxy on the bottom of the top, where, you've sanded too far, to minimize how much flox you need to fill the gap.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

It also bears repeating Vans' instructions: QB builders must go thru the non-QB instructions carefully (takes several  hours!) to see where the "pro" guys screwed up. Guaranteed you'll find a few things that need to be addressed.



My QB fuel tanks were installed with bolts one size too long, with a stack of washers under each to make them fit!

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

mhealydds

Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Wichita, KS

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

By the way, the lower or bottom portion seats fine, just sides, attached better pictures

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mhealydds

Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 30
Location: Wichita, KS

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Cabin Cover Fit

I thought I went through the QB kit pretty well, found lots of errors actually (to the point that I am not sure I would even recommend a QB fuse kit), guess checking the head style of every rivet was not something I got into.

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

Not to go against the trend.....but why take our the 470's.  If you have it

fitting....already cut the top....then just leave the "wrong" rivets in and

flox around them.  Will help keep everything lined up and the will not

affect the structure.  Drilling out the rivets and putting in new rivets

only increases the risk of messing something up.



Rene'

801-721-6080



--

Dave Saylor

Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 209
Location: GILROY, CA

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:58 pm Post subject: Cabin Cover Fit

I agree with Rene.  If it fits, don't bother drilling out those rivets.  I would lay a thick layer of flox or milled fiber filler between the top and the fuse to fill the gap before drilling for the attach screws.  The problem with a release in an area like that is some resin will inevitably seep into some cavity or female section that makes it very difficulty to remove.  It can be done with a lot of prep and forethought but it wouldn't be worth it.  Filling will work just fine.  Keep it a little "below grade" to reduce having to remove cured material--you can always bodywork it for cosmetics afterward.



Once the top is on, it's an integral part of the fuselage.  Taking it off in the future might be possible but you'd need a really good reason.

--Dave 



On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene" <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)>

 

 Not to go against the trend.....but why take our the 470's.  If you have it

 fitting....already cut the top....then just leave the "wrong" rivets in and

 flox around them.  Will help keep everything lined up and the will not

 affect the structure.  Drilling out the rivets and putting in new rivets

 only increases the risk of messing something up.

 

 Rene'

 [url=tel:801-721-6080]801-721-6080[/url]

 

 --

_________________
--Dave
KWVI

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