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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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 Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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And over $16,000 with the required spinner....
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:52 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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2.5 times the price of the two blade aluminum is nuts!
At AOPA last November I was given the scoop from a source within Hartzell
that the two blade is the best blade for the RV-10, he suggested I get the
blade balanced and I would have everything that the three blade would offer
except the looks and maybe a slight decrease in climb performance, but with
the RV-10 the climb would still outpace another three bladed plane anyway,
he saw I was married and knew I wasn't looking to impress any women along my
travels and hence told me to stick with the 2 blade.
Interesting thing is my wife wanted a 3 blade but changed her mind when I
mentioned the difference in price.
But that is nice looking blade!
--------------------------------------------------
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:31 PM
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: New Hartzell Available
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:10 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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Just a point of clarification… The panel image I posted was of Deems’ layout as Vern thought Deems was using the Avidyne system. I wanted to answer for Deems as he is otherwise occupied. (I went with the G900X/Dynon Back Up)
As far as props go… $15,000 is in the ball park when compared with the other 3 blades out there. Throw in a custom paint scheme. Cough, cough (Deems) and my guess is that all 3 blades are running $15 ish. Unfortunately with all the equipment out there we still have no, zero, zilch, nada side by side comparisons. So how is one to know what is the fastest or best option? My choice was $6.5k, two blades and easy cowl removal. Heck most of my friends don’t have an airplane so ego still intact. I have a feeling that when all is said & done the BA Hartzell may be the fastest of them all in cruise.
Of note those thinking of the James cowl will need to buy a $1,100+ 14” spinner.
My Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is almost dressed (painted)…
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 2:51 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
First positive today was the news that Rob's prop is now VAN approved for the rest of us. The second was the picture of Robin's panel and the third is word from Phoenix (Deer Valley)- that we are ALL waiting for. So I am listening with anticipation and have a foot that is hoping like a rabbit that another Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is ready for launch into the heavens.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Fri 3/6/2009 2:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: New Hartzell Available
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Anyone notice this this week?
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/090305hartzell.html?WT.mc_id=090306epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1236378475-338-27&browse=props&product=csprop-hartzell
At over 15k it must be heated and add 15kts. Sheesh
Rob, did you ever get time to make any runs with the =======================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic--> http://forums.matronics.com
p; - List Contribution bsp; -Matt Dralle, List href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=================
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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gengrumpy(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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You'd a thought you'd at least get 20 yrs and 2,000 TBO for this
price.....
Grumpy
do not archive
On Mar 6, 2009, at 4:31 PM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:39 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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No kidding...my MT was only a bit more that the 2 blade Hartzell...I chose it for smoothness and looks not performance...but alas it only has the standard ILS paint...grey with white tips on the front.
Rick Sked
40185
Do not archive
---
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planesmith(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:35 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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Robin C
Thanks for setting me straight. I don't get out of the Northwest much C but just wait till N44QT is done!
Vern
Do not archive
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Date: Fri C 6 Mar 2009 20:09:44 -0500
From: robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
.ExternalClass .EC_shape {;} New Hartzell Available .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal C .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman' C'serif';} .ExternalClass a:link C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass a:visited C .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} .ExternalClass p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman' C'serif';} .ExternalClass pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} .ExternalClass span.EC_HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;} .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle20 {font-family:'Arial' C'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;} .ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} (at)page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in;} .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {page:Section1;}
Just a point of clarification… The panel image I posted was of Deems’ layout as Vern thought Deems was using the Avidyne system. I wanted to answer for Deems as he is otherwise occupied. (I went with the G900X/Dynon Back Up)
As far as props go… $15 C000 is in the ball park when compared with the other 3 blades out there. Throw in a custom paint scheme. Cough C cough (Deems) and my guess is that all 3 blades are running $15 ish. Unfortunately with all the equipment out there we still have no C zero C zilch C nada side by side comparisons. So how is one to know what is the fastest or best option? My choice was $6.5k C two blades and easy cowl removal. Heck most of my friends don’t have an airplane so ego still intact. I have a feeling that when all is said & done the BA Hartzell may be the fastest of them all in cruise.
Of note those thinking of the James cowl will need to buy a $1 C100+ 14” spinner.
My Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is almost dressed (painted)…
Robin
Do Not Archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Friday C March 06 C 2009 2:51 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
First positive today was the news that Rob's prop is now VAN approved for the rest of us. The second was the picture of Robin's panel and the third is word from Phoenix (Deer Valley)- that we are ALL waiting for. So I am listening with anticipation and have a foot that is hoping like a rabbit that another Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is ready for launch into the heavens.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Fri 3/6/2009 2:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: New Hartzell Available
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Anyone notice this this week?
http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2009/090305hartzell.html?WT.mc_id=090306epilot&WT.mc_sect=gan
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1236378475-338-27&browse=props&product=csprop-hartzell
At over 15k it must be heated and add 15kts. Sheesh
Rob C did you ever get time to make any runs with the =======================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic--> http://forums.matronics.com
p; - List Contribution bsp; -Matt Dralle C List href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=================
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
0Windows Live™ Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Check it out. [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:17 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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I have to disagree, my new 3 blade MT was under 9k with 14” spinner, assembly, and shipping. You don’t pay extra for a 14” spinner with MT. I did get a bit of a price break because it was one that someone had ordered and then backed out on but this was only a couple months ago.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:10 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clarification… The panel image I posted was of Deems’ layout as Vern thought Deems was using the Avidyne system. I wanted to answer for Deems as he is otherwise occupied. (I went with the G900X/Dynon Back Up)
As far as props go… $15,000 is in the ball park when compared with the other 3 blades out there. Throw in a custom paint scheme. Cough, cough (Deems) and my guess is that all 3 blades are running $15 ish. Unfortunately with all the equipment out there we still have no, zero, zilch, nada side by side comparisons. So how is one to know what is the fastest or best option? My choice was $6.5k, two blades and easy cowl removal. Heck most of my friends don’t have an airplane so ego still intact. I have a feeling that when all is said & done the BA Hartzell may be the fastest of them all in cruise.
Of note those thinking of the James cowl will need to buy a $1,100+ 14” spinner.
My Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is almost dressed (painted)…
Robin
Do Not Archive
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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I don’t believe you pay extra for the 14” spinner from Aerocomposites either.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:15 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
I have to disagree, my new 3 blade MT was under 9k with 14” spinner, assembly, and shipping. You don’t pay extra for a 14” spinner with MT. I did get a bit of a price break because it was one that someone had ordered and then backed out on but this was only a couple months ago.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:10 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clarification… The panel image I posted was of Deems’ layout as Vern thought Deems was using the Avidyne system. I wanted to answer for Deems as he is otherwise occupied. (I went with the G900X/Dynon Back Up)
As far as props go… $15,000 is in the ball park when compared with the other 3 blades out there. Throw in a custom paint scheme. Cough, cough (Deems) and my guess is that all 3 blades are running $15 ish. Unfortunately with all the equipment out there we still have no, zero, zilch, nada side by side comparisons. So how is one to know what is the fastest or best option? My choice was $6.5k, two blades and easy cowl removal. Heck most of my friends don’t have an airplane so ego still intact. I have a feeling that when all is said & done the BA Hartzell may be the fastest of them all in cruise.
Of note those thinking of the James cowl will need to buy a $1,100+ 14” spinner.
My Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is almost dressed (painted)…
Robin
Do Not Archive
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567890
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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Can we agree the Hartzell two blade assembly is lighter and faster in cruise? The 3 blade is prettier to some builders. The composite blades dampens combustion impulses better than aluminum blades. Some aluminum blades have rpm restrictions. Some 3 blades can climb quicker to altitude than two. Some builders report quieter cockpits and less harmonic vibrations. Some builders choose to spend more on selected features than more fiscally restricted or conservative types.
Some of the builders helped raise the bar and improve the finished product through Add-ons. The G900 is one of those, the OP Tech was one, the VP200 is one, The Grimstad pedal retro is a pair, the 3 Blade composite is one such assembly, TCW products are a whole line and the aftermarket composite components can lead to improvements in speed, appearance and builder pride. Some beautiful adds cost more, add weight and can raise the bar all in one fell swoop.
Congrats "Chunky Monkey". Thanks guys for making the choices so diverse and this group so tolerant of the progressive builders and vital kit - The VANS RV-10.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 8:15 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
I have to disagree, my new 3 blade MT was under 9k with 14” spinner, assembly, and shipping. You don’t pay extra for a 14” spinner with MT. I did get a bit of a price break because it was one that someone had ordered and then backed out on but this was only a couple months ago.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks
Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:10 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clarification… The panel image I posted was of Deems’ layout as Vern thought Deems was using the Avidyne system. I wanted to answer for Deems as he is otherwise occupied. (I went with the G900X/Dynon Back Up)
As far as props go… $15,000 is in the ball park when compared with the other 3 blades out there. Throw in a custom paint scheme. Cough, cough (Deems) and my guess is that all 3 blades are running $15 ish. Unfortunately with all the equipment out there we still have no, zero, zilch, nada side by side comparisons. So how is one to know what is the fastest or best option? My choice was $6.5k, two blades and easy cowl removal. Heck most of my friends don’t have an airplane so ego still intact. I have a feeling that when all is said & done the BA Hartzell may be the fastest of them all in cruise.
Of note those thinking of the James cowl will need to buy a $1,100+ 14” spinner.
My Barrett / Forsling / James Fire Breather "Chunky Monkey" is almost dressed (painted)…
Robin
Do Not Archive
[quote] [/b][/b][/b][/b][b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[b][/b][b]http://forums.matronics.com[b][/b]http://www.matronics.com/contribution [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
--
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pascal(at)rv10builder.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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This has come up before. Vic did a test next to the Van's plane (attached) and I took away that the higher HP 3 blade still was slower than the Van's 2 blade, Rob did a preliminary, if I recall, and it too was slower than a 2 blade, Hartzell has told me outright that the 2 blade is faster than the composite three blade.
Three is more "sexy" but when it comes to performance at this point the 2 blade is the best value for the dollar.
Pascal
From: John Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:32 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
--
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:50 am Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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Call me stubborn, but I did not accept the referenced test as valid then or now. Will still lust after a long x-cntry with similar engined RV-10s running a Hartzell 2 blade aluminum egg beater, a Hartzell 3 blade Composite, an MT and an Aerocomp on an extended trip. Time to climb, LOP ops, Cruise fuel flow and comfort could all be factored with teams switching ponies on various legs to validate parochial bias.
We have the technology, I will await a valid comparison. The query comes up because Jim has not acknowledge the results of a test with his MT and I know of no unbiased test yet with all four flavors.
Hard Headed in Aurora
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:57 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
This has come up before. Vic did a test next to the Van's plane (attached) and I took away that the higher HP 3 blade still was slower than the Van's 2 blade, Rob did a preliminary, if I recall, and it too was slower than a 2 blade, Hartzell has told me outright that the 2 blade is faster than the composite three blade.
Three is more "sexy" but when it comes to performance at this point the 2 blade is the best value for the dollar.
Pascal
From: John Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:32 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
--
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John Ackerman
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 130
Location: Prescott, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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No question in my mind - the two blade blended airfoil props generally seem to be faster, at least in the comparisons that have been posted here, and that's what I'd expect. Faster is not, however, the same thing as higher performance - top speed is only one characteristic that counts. For many of us, takeoff and climb are more important than top speed. So is smoothness. It's also not clear that cruise efficiency differs, or even which way it differs. Finally, the thing that sold me on the Aerocomposites 3-blade was the engineering and fabrication quality of blades, spinner, and hub.
No question about the huge price difference, though. In July of 2008. the Aerocomposites cost $14.2K, the spinner was $1.05K, and the paint price depended on what kind of scheme you wanted. Clearly,I thought the quality was worth a huge amount of money, and I'm not alone. Had the Hartzell been available at the time we bought, it might have at least been cause for much head scratching - maybe even a coin flip. We shall see.
Do not archive.
John Ackerman
On Mar 7, 2009, at 10:57 AM, pascal wrote:
[quote]This has come up before. Vic did a test next to the Van's plane (attached) and I took away that the higher HP 3 blade still was slower than the Van's 2 blade, Rob did a preliminary, if I recall, and it too was slower than a 2 blade, Hartzell has told me outright that the 2 blade is faster than the composite three blade.
Three is more "sexy" but when it comes to performance at this point the 2 blade is the best value for the dollar.
Pascal
From: John Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:32 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of lessdragprod(at)aol.com (lessdragprod(at)aol.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
--
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ddddsp1(at)juno.com
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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I agree completely with John. There is also, although maybe slight with the quality of the kit, a possibility of differences in the airframes and engines being tested. I know one -10 that has seen 184KTAS confirmed with groundspeed averaged runs. Others can't get over 176 or so max.
I think I would even take it a notch past John in that the only true comparison can be the same plane with different props bolted on. I believe herein lies the problem. Who wants to take the time to bolt a 3-blade prop onto their 2-blade plane just to give numbers to others, since their decision was already made (and vice versa, of course).
Ideally, two high-time -10'ers could fly side by side, comparing ground roll, climb rate, cruise speed (all at equal engine settings) and then swap props and do the same tests. This would give the pilots reporting an opportunity to see what their plane would do with another prop. A cross-country trip would be fantastic as well, swapping props for the return trip to compare total fuel burn for formation climbs and cruise, or comparing total trip time at the same cruising altitude.
This could also give a high-time pilot the chance to "feel" the difference. I know a problem with this is the dynamic balancing issue. If a prop is dynamically balanced for one plane and then is put on another, it may not "feel" as good as it could if it were also dynamically balanced for that specific plane.
It's time to get back to work, but I would personally love to see a comparison of these, but I wonder how many would actually change their mind. IMHO, I think the 2 blade is the best all-around prop for the -10 because of cost (Van's price is fantastic on this prop), the fact that it is aluminum (In my bush flying experience composite props don't last very long, so call me biased), ease of cowling installation and removal and top speed at given settings (according to most common wisdom). The -10, IMHO, already takes off and climbs so well that I have a hard time believing, except in extreme cases, that higher take-off and climb performance would be necessary. I would take a -10 over a 180HP STOL 172 or a STOL 206 for takeoff and climb off grass any day, although when the grass gets rough, it's hard to beat the Cessna gear. I have yet to see a Cirrus or Columbia demonstrate any kind of performance on takeoff that is even in the same class as the -10. That said, if the airstrip was 300 yards long or at 9,500msl, I might thing about a 3-blade regardless of cruise performance (extreme cases as mentioned above). I have taken off in a -10 at 9,500msl at gross weight (uphill, not less) and was quite happy with the performance, but I did probably use as much runway as a Cirrus typically does at my home field at 65msl.
OK, now it's really time to get back to work.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 7, 2009, at 2:44 PM, John Cox wrote:
[quote]Call me stubborn, but I did not accept the referenced test as valid then or now. Will still lust after a long x-cntry with similar engined RV-10s running a Hartzell 2 blade aluminum egg beater, a Hartzell 3 blade Composite, an MT and an Aerocomp on an extended trip. Time to climb, LOP ops, Cruise fuel flow and comfort could all be factored with teams switching ponies on various legs to validate parochial bias.
We have the technology, I will await a valid comparison. The query comes up because Jim has not acknowledge the results of a test with his MT and I know of no unbiased test yet with all four flavors.
Hard Headed in Aurora
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:57 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: New Hartzell Available
This has come up before. Vic did a test next to the Van's plane (attached) and I took away that the higher HP 3 blade still was slower than the Van's 2 blade, Rob did a preliminary, if I recall, and it too was slower than a 2 blade, Hartzell has told me outright that the 2 blade is faster than the composite three blade.
Three is more "sexy" but when it comes to performance at this point the 2 blade is the best value for the dollar.
Pascal
From: John Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:32 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of lessdragprod(at)aol.com (lessdragprod(at)aol.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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msausen
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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 The only way to produce valid comparison results is for the same aircraft to perform the tests with the different props. As Jim said, he had a prop for a 2 blade -10 driver to do this comparison with but no one was interested. There are too many variables in fit and finish for such a comparison to be run on two different aircraft when we are talking such a small difference in performance.
 Until that day it’s generally accepted that a 3 blade will cost you a couple knots but will out climb a 2 blade. Just from the physics of the matter that would make sense to me. You can also expect an additional blade to help dampen the power pulses better than a two blade. Again, that physics/mass thing. I also believe that I’ve heard that the odd number of blades will reduce the likeliness that  you will ever run into a nasty harmonic but YMMV.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 2:45 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
Call me stubborn, but I did not accept the referenced test as valid then or now. Will still lust after a long x-cntry with similar engined RV-10s running a Hartzell 2 blade aluminum egg beater, a Hartzell 3 blade Composite, an MT and an Aerocomp on an extended trip. Time to climb, LOP ops, Cruise fuel flow and comfort could all be factored with teams switching ponies on various legs to validate parochial bias.
We have the technology, I will await a valid comparison. The query comes up because Jim has not acknowledge the results of a test with his MT and I know of no unbiased test yet with all four flavors.
Hard Headed in Aurora
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:57 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
This has come up before. Vic did a test next to the Van's plane (attached) and I took away that the higher HP 3 blade still was slower than the Van's 2 blade, Rob did a preliminary, if I recall, and it too was slower than a 2 blade, Hartzell has told me outright that the 2 blade is faster than the composite three blade.
Three is more "sexy" but when it comes to performance at this point the 2 blade is the best value for the dollar.
Pascal
From: John Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:32 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lessdragprod(at)aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:10 pm Post subject: New Hartzell Available |
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I will fly off the various prop....all on the same day. All they have to do is GIVE me all of them for free and let me keep my favorite when I'm done....At zero cost.
All must be brand new.
Tim
On Mar 7, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
[quote]I agree completely with John. There is also, although maybe slight with the quality of the kit, a possibility of differences in the airframes and engines being tested. I know one -10 that has seen 184KTAS confirmed with groundspeed averaged runs. Others can't get over 176 or so max.
I think I would even take it a notch past John in that the only true comparison can be the same plane with different props bolted on. I believe herein lies the problem. Who wants to take the time to bolt a 3-blade prop onto their 2-blade plane just to give numbers to others, since their decision was already made (and vice versa, of course).
Ideally, two high-time -10'ers could fly side by side, comparing ground roll, climb rate, cruise speed (all at equal engine settings) and then swap props and do the same tests. This would give the pilots reporting an opportunity to see what their plane would do with another prop. A cross-country trip would be fantastic as well, swapping props for the return trip to compare total fuel burn for formation climbs and cruise, or comparing total trip time at the same cruising altitude.
This could also give a high-time pilot the chance to "feel" the difference. I know a problem with this is the dynamic balancing issue. If a prop is dynamically balanced for one plane and then is put on another, it may not "feel" as good as it could if it were also dynamically balanced for that specific plane.
It's time to get back to work, but I would personally love to see a comparison of these, but I wonder how many would actually change their mind. IMHO, I think the 2 blade is the best all-around prop for the -10 because of cost (Van's price is fantastic on this prop), the fact that it is aluminum (In my bush flying experience composite props don't last very long, so call me biased), ease of cowling installation and removal and top speed at given settings (according to most common wisdom). The -10, IMHO, already takes off and climbs so well that I have a hard time believing, except in extreme cases, that higher take-off and climb performance would be necessary. I would take a -10 over a 180HP STOL 172 or a STOL 206 for takeoff and climb off grass any day, although when the grass gets rough, it's hard to beat the Cessna gear. I have yet to see a Cirrus or Columbia demonstrate any kind of performance on takeoff that is even in the same class as the -10. That said, if the airstrip was 300 yards long or at 9,500msl, I might thing about a 3-blade regardless of cruise performance (extreme cases as mentioned above). I have taken off in a -10 at 9,500msl at gross weight (uphill, not less) and was quite happy with the performance, but I did probably use as much runway as a Cirrus typically does at my home field at 65msl.
OK, now it's really time to get back to work.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
[url=mailto:jesse(at)saintaviation.com]jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)[/url]
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Mar 7, 2009, at 2:44 PM, John Cox wrote:
[quote]Call me stubborn, but I did not accept the referenced test as valid then or now. Will still lust after a long x-cntry with similar engined RV-10s running a Hartzell 2 blade aluminum egg beater, a Hartzell 3 blade Composite, an MT and an Aerocomp on an extended trip. Time to climb, LOP ops, Cruise fuel flow and comfort could all be factored with teams switching ponies on various legs to validate parochial bias.
We have the technology, I will await a valid comparison. The query comes up because Jim has not acknowledge the results of a test with his MT and I know of no unbiased test yet with all four flavors.
Hard Headed in Aurora
From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of pascal
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:57 AM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: New Hartzell Available
This has come up before. Vic did a test next to the Van's plane (attached) and I took away that the higher HP 3 blade still was slower than the Van's 2 blade, Rob did a preliminary, if I recall, and it too was slower than a 2 blade, Hartzell has told me outright that the 2 blade is faster than the composite three blade.
Three is more "sexy" but when it comes to performance at this point the 2 blade is the best value for the dollar.
Pascal
From: John Cox (johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:32 AM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: RE: New Hartzell Available
Jim, you could do a big favor to the experimental market by lobbying Gert to allow custom blade paint on the MTs. Nothing against White Blades, Black Blades, Grey blades… but boy do the American Propeller paint jobs get my juices flowing. Some RV-10s just look fast standing on the ramp next to a G-IV.
I am sure Aerocomp blades would sell as many in stock "restricted" bland paint colors but those finished blades are prettier in my eyes and impact marketing= Sales. Enough so that money must be budgeted a little tighter than I had planned originally.
And isn't it tragic that not one "Head to Head" has been done in all this time. 190 finished, flying RV-10s, nearly 1,000 kits sold and Not Hartzell, Nor MT nor Aerocomp will take the gauntlet. Rob, I understand your timeline priorities on great new AFS products have distracted you, but many are leaning into the prevailing winds to hear more on Field Tests of the Hartzell ASC-II.
John
From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url] [[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of [url=mailto:lessdragprod(at)aol.com]lessdragprod(at)aol.com (lessdragprod(at)aol.com)[/url]
Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 9:08 AM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: New Hartzell Available
Just a point of clearification here. Michael's 3 blade MT propeller was a new propeller available for comparison flight testing on a flying RV-10 with a 2 blade hartzell. With no takers in over a year, I sold the propeller to Michael.
I have new RV-10 3 blade MT propellers available for $9,890 delivered assembled to your closest international airport. 13" or 14" spinner included.
Standard colors are Red, White, Grey, Black and Yellow for the blades, blade tips and spinner.
Grey with White tips is recommended for IFR aircraft.
Black with Yellow tips was the old CAA required blade colors.
As a special offer, White blades with Red, White and Blue tips is available.
A Hi-Glo spinner (looks like polished aluminum) is available for an extra $450.
Sorry if this offens the SPAM sensitive. Just real prices.
Please contact me off line, or directly at the phone numbers below, if you desire additional information.
Jim Ayers
[url=mailto:jim(at)lessdrag.com]jim(at)lessdrag.com (jim(at)lessdrag.com)[/url]
Less Drag products, Inc - Located in California (805) 795-5377
Custom Aircraft Propeller - Located in Florida (321) 441-3544
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