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Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:43 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

I am just starting to rivet the tailcone.  I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place.  It seems like I can but should I?

Thanks

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2879

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:14 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

It would probably work, but you may want to at least put some clecos in 

on the other side and help ensure that all the parts are in alignment

so everything ends up straight.  With the matched hole system though

I bet it would come out ok.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Strasnuts wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am just starting to rivet the tailcone.  I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place.  It seems like I can but should I?

 

 

 Thanks

 

 --------

 A&amp;P, ATP

 typed CE-525(s), CE-500

 RV-10 emp started!!!!

 N801VR reserved

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:28 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all

the way around.



This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it

side-to-side so I could get access to the required area.



You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're

trying to shoot and buck at the same time.  I managed to get a highly

unskilled helper in my wife.  She dropped the rivets in the hole and

held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar.  I shot them from

the backside with a back-rivet set.  Looks great and she didn't have to

develop any skills shooting or bucking.



Phil

 



--

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:40 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

Thanks for the quick reply,



I have done 99.9% of the build on my own so far.  My wife is making most of 

the money so I will get a cheaper helper



It's getting to the point where I NEED some more hands!



---

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

Phil



Thanks for letting us know that trick.  I am sure my wife can do the same

thing, I also have a very large flat steel plate that I use for back

riveting and it works great I am sure it will work for this.



Thanks again.



John G. Cumins

President

 

JC'S Interactive Systems

2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94533

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider

--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

I did a lot of my tail cone by myself.  I made small back rivet table

(stacked boards) and left as many clecos in as possible and then just stuck

my head in and started riveting.  As you start filling rivet holes it gets

easier since you don't have as many clecos in to get in the way (hitting the

table).



I left both side skins on in fear that I would get the bulkheads out of line

somehow.....



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080

--

ogdenk

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Syracuse, NY

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

Having just been there and done that, I didn't have both side skins on while riveting and everything came out fine.  I think the plans start you on the bottom skin IIRC and you really have to have the frames in place with the stiffeners, you won't be able to easily get the frames over the stiffeners once riveted.

  

 I put my clecoes on the inside of the skins and did as many rivets as possible by back riveting.  This worked great, just be sure there is no gap between the stiffener and skin and that you're solid on the back riveting plate.

  

 Once the top skins go on, it really helps to have a ten year old (or petite spouse) to sit inside and buck rivets for you.  Someone else mentioned this a while ago and offered their ten year old for rent, luckily I had one available!

  

 Hope this helps.

  

 Kent

 #40710 waiting for wing kit



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> 3/18/2009 1:43 PM >>>

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com>
	




I am just starting to rivet the tailcone.  I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place.  It seems like I can but should I?

Thanks



--------

A&amp;P, ATP

typed CE-525(s), CE-500

RV-10 emp started!!!!

N801VR reserved





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111



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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Tailcone Question

I'd really like to get one of those ten year olds - how much do they cost?

In a more serious vein, this is a good time to think about a couple of Adel Clamp mounts in the aft tailcone area while it's easy to get to it. Even if you run conduit back there, you'll need some way to hold the conduit in place - Adel Clamps.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:48 am Post subject: Tailcone Question

That is exactly how Mary and I did ours. Worked fantastic and looks  

great.



David Maib

40559



On Mar 18, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Perry, Phil wrote:






I clecoed all of mine together, but left a space for the saw horses all

the way around.



This way I could sit the tailcone on the saw horses and roll it

side-to-side so I could get access to the required area.



You may be asking because you don't have a rivet partner and you're

trying to shoot and buck at the same time.  I managed to get a highly

unskilled helper in my wife.  She dropped the rivets in the hole and

held them (flush side) in position with a bucking bar.  I shot them from

the backside with a back-rivet set.  Looks great and she didn't have to

develop any skills shooting or bucking.



Phil





--

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

ogdenk

Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 41
Location: Syracuse, NY

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

This is an outstanding suggestion, and one which I wish I had thought about before finishing the tailcone.  Still won't be too hard to do before the tailcone is mounted to the fuse.  I wish Van's had put some suggestions in the plans for doing this.  You need some wires for the lights, plus the elevator trim at a minimum, is there anything else (magnetometer etc) that might go back there?  Looking at some builders sites (Deem's comes to mind) I found some pictures of what they did that gave me some ideas, but I like the conduit idea best as it should provide the best protection for the wire.

  

 On a related note, I wonder if anyone has installed one of these integrated position/strobes in the rudder:

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/posistrobe.php (manufacturer at http://www.aveoaviationlights.com/)

  

 Looks pretty cool, no external HV power supply.  Kind of expensive though.  I looked at the drawings for the light and measured the flat spot on the rudder fairing, the light is exactly the right size.  Maybe that's standard for these lights (e.g. the same as the A625 light that Van's sells)?

  

  

 Kent Ogden

 #40710 Waiting for wing kit

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> 3/18/2009 3:28 PM >>>

--> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
	




I'd really like to get one of those ten year olds - how much do they cost?

In a more serious vein, this is a good time to think about a couple of Adel Clamp mounts in the aft tailcone area while it's easy to get to it. Even if you run conduit back there, you'll need some way to hold the conduit in place - Adel Clamps.

John



--------

#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish Kit started.

N711JG reserved





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235130#235130



_-============================================================

_-=          - The RV10-List Email Forum -

_-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse

_-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

_-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

_-= Photoshare, and much much more:

_-=

_-=   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

_-=

_-============================================================

_-=               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

_-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!

_-=

_-=   --> http://forums.matronics.com

_-=

_-============================================================

_-=             - List Contribution Web Site -

_-=  Thank you for your generous support!

_-=                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

_-=   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

_-============================================================

millstees(at)ameritech.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

I built a shelf for my  magnetometer, about 1/2 way back in the tailcone (see picture), and it would of  been lots easier to do while building the tailcone.  Simply mount it on the  top longeron, and it will be very close to level.  You can the fine-tune  the level and direction, when you install the magnetometer.

  

  



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent  Ogden

Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:47 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Tailcone  Question

 

 This is an outstanding suggestion, and one which I wish I had thought about  before finishing the tailcone.  Still won't be too hard to do before  the tailcone is mounted to the fuse.  I wish Van's had put some suggestions  in the plans for doing this.  You need some wires for the lights, plus the  elevator trim at a minimum, is there anything else (magnetometer etc) that might  go back there?  Looking at some builders sites (Deem's comes to mind) I  found some pictures of what they did that gave me some ideas, but I like the  conduit idea best as it should provide the best protection for the wire.

  

 On a related note, I wonder if anyone has installed one of these integrated  position/strobes in the rudder:

  

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/posistrobe.php (manufacturer  at http://www.aveoaviationlights.com/)

  

 Looks pretty cool, no external HV power supply.  Kind of expensive  though.  I looked at the drawings for the light and measured the flat spot  on the rudder fairing, the light is exactly the right size.  Maybe that's  standard for these lights (e.g. the same as the A625 light that Van's  sells)?

  

  

 Kent Ogden

 #40710 Waiting for wing kit

  

 



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>  3/18/2009 3:28 PM >>>

--> RV10-List message posted by:  "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>
	




I'd really like to get  one of those ten year olds - how much do they cost?

In a more serious vein,  this is a good time to think about a couple of Adel Clamp mounts in the aft  tailcone area while it's easy to get to it. Even if you run conduit back there,  you'll need some way to hold the conduit in place - Adel  Clamps.

John



--------

#40572 QB Fuselage, wings finished. Finish  Kit started.

N711JG reserved





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235130#235130

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bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:50 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

We stood the cone on end, supported it high enough I could stand on a stool.Â  I stood inside (with hearing protection!) and a rivet gun, my wife used a bucking bar to back rivet from the outside.Â  Worked like a champâ€¦but donâ€™t lose your balance!!  

   

Do not archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent Ogden

 Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:56 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Tailcone Question  

  

  

     

Having just been there and done that, I didn't have both side skins on while riveting and everything came out fine.  I think the plans start you on the bottom skin IIRC and you really have to have the frames in place with the stiffeners, you won't be able to easily get the frames over the stiffeners once riveted.  

    

   

    

I put my clecoes on the inside of the skins and did as many rivets as possible by back riveting.  This worked great, just be sure there is no gap between the stiffener and skin and that you're solid on the back riveting plate.  

    

   

    

Once the top skins go on, it really helps to have a ten year old (or petite spouse) to sit inside and buck rivets for you.  Someone else mentioned this a while ago and offered their ten year old for rent, luckily I had one available!  

    

   

    

Hope this helps.  

    

   

    

Kent  

    

#40710 waiting for wing kit

 

 >>> "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> 3/18/2009 1:43 PM >>>

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com>

 

 I am just starting to rivet the tailcone.  I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place.  It seems like I can but should I?

 

 

 Thanks

 

 --------

 A&amp;P, ATP

 typed CE-525(s), CE-500

 RV-10 emp started!!!!

 N801VR reserved

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

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 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

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 bsp;   - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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Â¦Â·â€º~â€°ÃÂ²,Ãž    g(â€“Å Ã“MÃ“GqÂ¢zÃÂ®  

       [quote][b]

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

Worlds largest dunce cap.  

   From: Bob and Karen Brown  [mailto:bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com] 

Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 4:49  PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RV10-List:  Tailcone Question

We  stood the cone on end, supported it high enough I could stand on a stool.   I stood inside (with hearing protection!) and a rivet gun, my wife used a  bucking bar to back rivet from the outside.  Worked like a champâ€¦but donâ€™t  lose your balance!! 

Do  not archive 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kent  Ogden

Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:56 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tailcone  Question

Having just been  there and done that, I didn't have both side skins on while riveting and  everything came out fine.  I think the plans start you on the bottom skin  IIRC and you really have to have the frames in place with the stiffeners, you  won't be able to easily get the frames over the stiffeners once  riveted.

I put my clecoes on  the inside of the skins and did as many rivets as possible by back  riveting.  This worked great, just be sure there is no gap between the  stiffener and skin and that you're solid on the back riveting  plate.

Once the top skins  go on, it really helps to have a ten year old (or petite spouse) to sit inside  and buck rivets for you.  Someone else mentioned this a while ago and  offered their ten year old for rent, luckily I had one  available!

Hope this  helps.

Kent

#40710 waiting for  wing kit

 	  Quote: 	
		  >> "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> 3/18/2009  1:43 PM >>>

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts"  <sean(at)braunandco.com>

I am just starting to rivet the  tailcone.  I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the  bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in  place.  It seems like I can but should  I?

Thanks

--------

A&amp;P, ATP

typed CE-525(s),  CE-500

RV-10 emp started!!!!

N801VR reserved

Read this  topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235111#235111

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Â¦Â·â€º~â€°ÃÂ²,Ãž   g(â€“Å Ã“MÃ“GqÂ¢zÃÂ® 

[quote][b]

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

my 2 more cents.... I did as much of the riveting solo as possible. An 

approx  1'x2'x3/8" back rivet plate made most of that possible.  It was 

all cleco'd together from the beginning



Some of the rivets in the top deck required some 2 person riveting.  

Contrary to most, I found it easiest to teach my mate to operate the gun 

when back riveting or flush riveting.  The bar can be harder to handle 

and definitely does the damage... and I want to be the one that does the 

damage.



Strasnuts wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am just starting to rivet the tailcone.  I need to know if I can start riveting one side skin and the bottom skin without clecoing (is that even a word?) the other side skin in place.  It seems like I can but should I?

 Thanks



 --------

 A&amp;P, ATP

 typed CE-525(s), CE-500

 RV-10 emp started!!!!

 N801VR reserved





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 35111#235111

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

I too wish I had built a shelf for my dual magnetometers back then.  I 

built and discarded one I tried to build to hug the very top of the cone 

after the fuse was all together..  The challenge is figuring out an 

optimal location relative to all the magnetic fields to be installed 

later.  1) the elevator trim motor, 2) the pitch trim motor, 3) the 

strobe power unit (which assume kicks of some field).



I Installed my tray further forward in the same bay and biased to the 

left side of the cone to put it equidistant from the 2 trim motors.



Of course, the unit may not be as sensitive as suggested.  Somewhere 

down the line some one will  have a documented a serviceable location 

for the various brands and configs.



Steve Mills wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I built a shelf for my magnetometer, about 1/2 way back in the 

 tailcone (see picture), and it would of been lots easier to do while 

 building the tailcone.  Simply mount it on the top longeron, and it 

 will be very close to level.  You can the fine-tune the level and 

 direction, when you install the magnetometer.

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Tailcone Question

I would second Rene's recommendation to back rivet the tail cone. I was able to back rivet the entire cone, minus about 6 rivets in the narrowest aft-most portion. A suggestion that I have not seen mentioned before is that I would recommend back riveting the F-1047B-R,L and C stiffeners to the F-1075 skin before clecoing the skin to the bulkheads. It is much easier to do this with the skin flat on your bench. Just leave the rivet holes open where the stiffeners cross the bulkheads. I had some concern that I would not be able to get the stiffeners into the corresponding bulkhead slots, but with a little flexing of the stiffeners it worked out fine. And saved a lot of riveting inside the tail cone.



Jim Berry

40482

N15JB

bkbrown(at)minetfiber.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:14 pm Post subject: Tailcone Question

I too back riveted almost the entire tail cone and all the side and bottom

skins (except for those few...) wherever I can figure out a way to back

rivet, I do!!



--

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: Re: Tailcone Question

I did the saw horse method, turning the tailcone over and from side-to-side as required.  I did as much as I could solo and then recruited my wife to shoot while I bucked.  Came out fine.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

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