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experimentalab(at)yahoo.c Guest
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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Hello all,
Haven't posted in several years, as my recreational flying has been sporadic at best, but I'm looking to get a few more hours under my belt as available work continues to slide...I'm flying a Model 3 behind a grayhead 582, C-box and 3-blade GSC.
I just replaced the bungees through Kitfox Aircraft, and they told me 4-5 wraps would be sufficient. Well I nearly lost a few digits, but I was able to get four wraps out of the new bungees...Now the old bungees were wrapped 5 or 6 times around each, and there was plenty of play...Now after a good taxi-test, both new bungees seem to have settled�with about an inch gap between the bottom of the fuselage and the gear bar. Is that about right, because I can't imagine how to get another wrap out of them!
Also, as I was taxiing out the other day I noticed the water temp and CHT's rising slightly higher than normal...pulled off and shutdown to find the radiator cool to the touch. My best guess is that the thermostat is sticky after several months of sitting. I'd rather not drop $150 on a new one ouch...any ideas on where I could find a more cost-effective part?
Thanks!
Andrew
[quote][b]
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akflyer
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Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 574 Location: Soldotna AK
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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OMC 3853799
I bought mine at Napa.. I think it was 6.29
if they are sagging that much, you need to get a buddy to help and get more wraps on it.
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_________________ DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co Guest
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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I seem to recall that the genuine Rotax thermostat has an internal by-pass in the event of diaphragm failure. You might want to look into this a little more closely.
When I used to wrap my bungees it was a two man job. Inside the cabin I use a long screwdriver with the tip bent at 90 deg to reach down and pull up and stretch the bungee. The person underneath would assist. i could easily get 5 to 6 wraps with this method.
Regards.
Gary Algate
GPLM Exploration
Direct Ph: +61 (0)88179 5032
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"akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
17/03/2009 02:39 PM
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kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To
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Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps...
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000(at)yahoo.com>
OMC 3853799
I bought mine at Napa.. I think it was 6.29
if they are sagging that much, you need to get a buddy to help and get more wraps on it.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 34937#234937
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Guy Buchanan
![](images/avatars/1102847172560b2376995d2.jpg)
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 1204 Location: Ramona, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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At 08:58 PM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
Quote: | OMC 3853799
I bought mine at Napa.. I think it was 6.29
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Good job Leonard. You have no problem running a 160F thermostat? I
think stock is about 135F.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
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_________________ Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Guy Buchanan
![](images/avatars/1102847172560b2376995d2.jpg)
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 1204 Location: Ramona, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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At 08:20 PM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
Quote: | Now after a good taxi-test, both new bungees seem to have settled
with about an inch gap between the bottom of the fuselage and the
gear bar. Is that about right, because I can't imagine how to get
another wrap out of them!
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Too loose. Check the archives.
(http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html) There has been a lot
of past traffic regarding how to tighten bungies. You can get six
wraps without too much trouble.
Quote: |
Also, as I was taxiing out the other day I noticed the water temp
and CHT's rising slightly higher than normal...pulled off and
shutdown to find the radiator cool to the touch. My best guess is
that the thermostat is sticky after several months of sitting. I'd
rather not drop $150 on a new one ouch...any ideas on where I could
find a more cost-effective part?\
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I've broken two now. You're right, they're expensive. However I'll
bet they're the same ones the karts use. Let's spend some time
tracking down a cheaper source. (I ran through four pages of Google
and didn't find anything obvious, but it looks promising.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
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_________________ Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Fox5flyer Guest
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:59 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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The OMC t-stat Snake is talking about works fine--actually better because it
allows the engine to quickly come up to a better working temp, especially in
the cold country. Some people drill a 3/16 hole in it to allow air to get
through, but I forget why. I think it's something to do with allowing the
hot coolant to mix with the cooler stuff so there is no cold seizure
potential. ...or something like that. $150 for a Rotax unit? Was that a
joke?
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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Tom Jones
![](images/avatars/12173518354c347421a8052.jpg)
Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 752 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:58 am Post subject: Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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Quote: | I just replaced the bungees through Kitfox Aircraft, and they told me 4-5 wraps would be sufficient. Well I nearly lost a few digits, but I was able to get four wraps out of the new bungees...Now the old bungees were wrapped 5 or 6 times around each, and there was plenty of play...Now after a good taxi-test, both new bungees seem to have settled�with about an inch gap between the bottom of the fuselage and the gear bar. Is that about right, because I can't imagine how to get another wrap out of them! |
Andrew, the gear tubes should sit up against the bottom of the fuselage when two good sized people are in the seat. Six wraps will do it. The trick is to not loose any of the progress you make on each wrap while you make the next wrap. A helper is good to have. I do mine by myself using water pump pliers with the jaws padded with friction tape to hold the last wrap while I make the next wrap. I'm an old skinny guy.
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_________________ Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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experimentalab(at)yahoo.c Guest
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:26 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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Thanks Guy...Is that thermostat a 160 as opposed to the stock? I'm almost embarrassed to say that the 4 wraps was WITH a buddy! I guess I'll have to go and give it another shot then! What we did was wrap a knot around the loop and used that to pull the bungee through....didn't leave much room so maybe the screwdriver method will work...
Andrew
do not archive
[quote][b]
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akflyer
![](images/avatars/2137179804977e39d71c60.jpg)
Joined: 07 May 2007 Posts: 574 Location: Soldotna AK
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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Guy Buchanan wrote: | At 08:58 PM 3/16/2009, you wrote:
Quote: | OMC 3853799
I bought mine at Napa.. I think it was 6.29
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Good job Leonard. You have no problem running a 160F thermostat? I
think stock is about 135F.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting |
Run this thermostat in 5 planes here locally with no issues. flown them from -35 to 85 above and have not had any problems to date. With this being said, I am not making claim that you may not have an issue. I went through 2 "genuine Rotax" thermostats yet none of us have had an issue with the "after-market" one I listed.
Remember, you must treat all my statements, stories, or tales as if they are 100% snake oil. I don't want to loose my #1 salesman status LOL
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_________________ DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die.... |
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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How long were those bungies Andrew? Relaxed, new ones should be 60" from loop to loop. While 6 wraps�is a knuckle-busting event (no place for ladies or children) it's do-able. Those who say it's a snap are freaking wizards in my estimation.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Andrew Matthaey <experimentalab(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: | From: Andrew Matthaey <experimentalab(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps...
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 11:25 AM
Thanks Guy...Is that thermostat a 160 as opposed to the stock? I'm almost embarrassed to say that the 4 wraps was WITH a buddy! I guess I'll have to go and give it another shot then! What we did was wrap a knot around the loop and used that to pull the bungee through....didn't leave much room so maybe the screwdriver method will work...
Andrew
do not archive
Quote: |
arget=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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larry huntley
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 149
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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It is a snap! I will try to take pix of the proper tools and procedure. My wife and I can install one six wraps in a lot less than 10 minutes. Larry Huntley
[quote] ---
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_________________ Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade |
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Paul A. Franz, P.E.
![](images/avatars/205104539749c17d253f2f6.gif)
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 280 Location: Bellevue WA
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:03 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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On Tue, March 17, 2009 7:25 am, Andrew Matthaey wrote:
Quote: | Thanks Guy...Is that thermostat a 160 as opposed to the stock? I'm almost embarrassed
to say that the 4 wraps was WITH a buddy! I guess I'll have to go and give it another
shot then! What we did was wrap a knot around the loop and used that to pull the
bungee through....didn't leave much room so maybe the screwdriver method will work...
|
After a little fiddling around, I found this to be a fairly simple one-man job. I use
two Vise-Grips and Channel Lock pliers. Make the first wrap and clamp it securely so
that the Vise Grip handle is blocked from rotating. Then make another wrap easily with
both hands now free use the Channel Lock plier to pull it tight to the point that the
bungee won't stretch anymore then use the second Vise Grip to clamp that wrap also
making sure that the handles will be supported from movement when you clamp and let
go. Then make another wrap with both hands free, pull it tight and move the second
Vise Grip to the new position. Repeat this process until you've got all the wraps you
can fit in the space. Then have a cup of coffee or beer and admire your work so far.
The last step is connecting the two ends of the bungee. I have a tool that allows you
to apply as many wraps of safety wire as you want and will pull that safey wire as
tight as you want it.
My first try I had those safety wires so tight they injured the bungee. I think the
joint should be made so it compressed the connection to about half the starting
diameter. I used 12 wraps of safety wire which is 6 doubles.
I'll post a couple photos of the tool on the Forum.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting
on what to have for dinner.
-- James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)
A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which
debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
-- G. Gordon Liddy
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_________________ Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:42 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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Could it be that you have a bungee cord that is too large in
diameter, or too strong? When I built my first set of skis two years
ago, I wasn't sure what diameter cord to buy so I got 1/4, 5/16, 3/8
and 1/2. The 1/4" was stronger than the 5/16"...thanks, Aircraft
spruce. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 615.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 17, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Andrew Matthaey wrote:
Quote: | Thanks Guy...Is that thermostat a 160 as opposed to the stock? I'm
almost embarrassed to say that the 4 wraps was WITH a buddy! I
guess I'll have to go and give it another shot then! What we did
was wrap a knot around the loop and used that to pull the bungee
through....didn't leave much room so maybe the screwdriver method
will work...
Andrew
do not archive
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Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
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msm_9949(at)yahoo.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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You're obviously a wizard, Larry. Question: are there pointy heads under the pointy hats?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
do not archive
--- On Tue, 3/17/09, Larry Huntley <asq(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:
[quote]From: Larry Huntley <asq(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps...
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 12:49 PM
It is a snap! I will try to take pix of the proper tools and procedure. My wife and I can install one six wraps in a lot less than 10 minutes. Larry Huntley
[quote] ---
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Guy Buchanan
![](images/avatars/1102847172560b2376995d2.jpg)
Joined: 16 Jul 2006 Posts: 1204 Location: Ramona, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:16 pm Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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At 03:55 AM 3/17/2009, you wrote:
Quote: | $150 for a Rotax unit? Was that a joke?
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Not far off the mark. CPS has them for just over $120. It should be a joke.
I'm kind of intrigued by the 160F thermostat; I'd like my engine to
run hotter most of the time. If Leonard doesn't have cold seizure
problems using it in Alaska, nobody will.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
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_________________ Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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larry huntley
Joined: 19 Jul 2008 Posts: 149
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Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:22 am Post subject: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
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Hi Marco,
Pointy head, hhmmm. Are you assuming I have a sharp mind? Quite a compliment. ;o) I took a pic and will send in a separate post. Larry
[quote] ---
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_________________ Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade |
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dave
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 1382
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