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Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

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cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

At 05:47 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE



--------


	




Cristal,



Good Video.  I am curious.  Where you carrying a passenger on your flight 

and were the photos taken while you were in level flight?  From the photos 

it looked like quite a bit of down elevator in two of them.  Why?



Jack B. hart FF004

Winchester, IN

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  At 05:47 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE



--------



	




Cristal,



Good Video.  I am curious.  Where you carrying a passenger on your flight 

and were the photos taken while you were in level flight?  From the photos 

it looked like quite a bit of down elevator in two of them.  Why?



Jack B. hart FF004

Winchester, IN 	




Thanks Jack,



I don't see it.  Maybe it's the angle of the shot.  They were either above or below me taking the pictures.



I was flying solo.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  At 05:47 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooo85LaMbuE



--------



	




Cristal,



Good Video.  I am curious.  Where you carrying a passenger on your flight 

and were the photos taken while you were in level flight?  From the photos 

it looked like quite a bit of down elevator in two of them.  Why?



Jack B. hart FF004

Winchester, IN 	




Oh yeah, and we had just taken off and was still climbing, but I don't see a whole lot of up elevator in the pictures.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

Last edited by cristalclear13 on Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  cristalclear13 wrote: 	
		  

Oh yeah, and we had just taken off and was still climbing, but I don't see a whole lot of up elevator in the pictures. 	




Meant to say down elevator there.  Looks like normal down elevator to me since we were still climbing.



Are you trying to make a wise crack about my weight?

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

Nice video and beautiful music to go along with it Crystal !  Looks like you guys had a great time.  I wish I could have gone !



I see what Jack is talking about on the elevator, but being down elevator in cruise could possibly indicate a tail heavy condition, but it could be other things also.  I don't know if the TwinStar has the adjustable horizontal stab as my MK III Does.   It looks to me like most of the load of the tail is being carried by the Horizontal Stab and the elevator may  even working against it a bit with so much down in cruise.  I don't know much of anything about the Twinstar, if this is normal or not, I just know its far different from what I see in my MK III Xtra in cruise !  Maybe John H could take a look at the pictures... I bet he has seen stuff like this in Kolbs a couple hundred times before.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:55 am Post subject: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

At 09:04 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

cristalclear13 wrote:

> 



Are you trying to make a wise crack about my weight?   



--------


	


Cristal,



Now that you made the statement, you must be sensitive.  Nothing is more 

unattractive than someone who is anorexic.  Your fairings look great and I 

would say you are in the bloom of health.  Let the Kolb worry about your 

weight and go fly.  



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



do not archive

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  JetPilot wrote: 	
		  Nice video and beautiful music to go along with it Crystal !  Looks like you guys had a great time.  I wish I could have gone !



I see what Jack is talking about on the elevator, but being down elevator in cruise could possibly indicate a tail heavy condition, but it could be other things also.  I don't know if the TwinStar has the adjustable horizontal stab as my MK III Does.   It looks to me like most of the load of the tail is being carried by the Horizontal Stab and the elevator may  even working against it a bit with so much down in cruise.  I don't know much of anything about the Twinstar, if this is normal or not, I just know its far different from what I see in my MK III Xtra in cruise !  Maybe John H could take a look at the pictures... I bet he has seen stuff like this in Kolbs a couple hundred times before.



Mike 	




Ok, I see what you're saying.  I was thinking backwards (which I tend to do after a long tiring weekend).  



I don't know the answer.  I might have been going down a little at some time to let the gyrocopter catch up to me.  But more than likely I didn't have my trim set.  That might cause it, right?

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne wrote: 	
		  At 09:04 AM 3/10/09 -0700, you wrote:

Cristal,



Now that you made the statement, you must be sensitive.  Nothing is more 

unattractive than someone who is anorexic.  Your fairings look great and I 

would say you are in the bloom of health.  Let the Kolb worry about your 

weight and go fly.  



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



do not archive 	




Thanks Jack, How nice you are.  In an attempt to be funny or head off kidding (which I tend to be on the receiving end alot) I'll cut myself down.  But it's hard to tell joking on forums since less than 10% of understanding comes from words (and emoticons aren't too much help).  The rest comes from diction, inflection, facial expressions, body language, etc.



Back to your original concern...My weight and balance shows me safely within the CG range.  My big trim tab affects my up and down elevator quite a bit so maybe that had something to do with it.  I hadn't adjusted my trim when I was flying there because I was trying to get a feel for how quickly the gyrocopter was climbing/following.  Maybe I'll ask the gyrocopter to fly with me some more and I can experiment with my trim tab and see if that makes a difference.



Thanks.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

A trim tab is used to position the elevator, it does not make much difference if you hold the stick by force, or if the trim tab does it for you, that just looks like bunch of down elevator in several of the shots ( it looks more constant, not just a momentary movement ).  I don't see this as being related to the position of your trim tab at all.



Kolbs are very different than other types of planes in many respects, which is why I would wonder what John Hauck would think about this.  I would hate to get you all worried about this and then have John H come and say that half the Kolbs he flown fly with the elevator in that position !  But whenever you see something that looks different, its better to ask someone that knows then to just ignore it  



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:48 pm Post subject: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

At 12:25 PM 3/10/09 -0700, JetPilot wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



A trim tab is used to position the elevator, it does not make much 

difference if you hold the stick by force, or if the trim tab does it for 
	


you, that just looks like bunch of down elevator in several of the shots ( 

it looks more constant, not just a momentary movement ).  I don't see this 

as being related to the position of your trim tab at all.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Kolbs are very different than other types of planes in many respects, which 

is why I would wonder what John Hauck would think about this.  I would hate 
	


to get you all worried about this and then have John H come and say that 

half the Kolbs he flown fly with the elevator in that position !  But 

whenever you see something that looks different, its better to ask someone 

that knows then to just ignore it  

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Mike,



The reason I asked is that the air craft looked out of trim.  If it was in 

level flight and trimmed out, I thought the horizontal stabilizer and 

elevator would have been in line with each other.  If anything I would have 

expected the elevator to have been displaced upward to maintain a heavier 

load or climb.  If down elevator is required for level flight with two 

people aboard, it might be good to adjust the horizontal stabilizer.  



A nephew took some photos during a July 4th 2007 fly over of the FireFly 

while in level flight.  I have an elevator position indicator but I have 

never been able to verify that it was indicating properly.  Both of these 

can be seen at:



http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly137.html



http://www.thirdshift.com/jack/firefly/firefly102.html



FWIW 



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

Crystal,



How does your airplane behave in a stall? Does it drop the nose and resume flying or do you have to give it a bit of forward stick to break the stall? Does your stick ever get lite and want to falls back in you lap?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pudkDMJWcs&feature=channel_page&fmt=18 

In the video at around 7:35 I do some stalls. You can see the nose drops off fairly sharp and the plane resumes flying. It doesn't take the forward stick to do this. If the plane is tail heavy it may tend to want to stay stalled requiring a bit of forward stick to break the stall.  In a stall a tail heavy plane will sometimes drop the tail  which will cause the stick to go back in your lap as the airflow pushes the elevator up. Good thing with our airplanes is that adding power can save you since it pushes the nose down. A Cessna would be different since adding power pulls the nose up.

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:15 am Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  grantr wrote: 	
		  Crystal,



How does your airplane behave in a stall? Does it drop the nose and resume flying or do you have to give it a bit of forward stick to break the stall? Does your stick ever get lite and want to falls back in you lap?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pudkDMJWcs&feature=channel_page&fmt=18 

In the video at around 7:35 I do some stalls. You can see the nose drops off fairly sharp and the plane resumes flying. It doesn't take the forward stick to do this. If the plane is tail heavy it may tend to want to stay stalled requiring a bit of forward stick to break the stall.  In a stall a tail heavy plane will sometimes drop the tail  which will cause the stick to go back in your lap as the airflow pushes the elevator up. Good thing with our airplanes is that adding power can save you since it pushes the nose down. A Cessna would be different since adding power pulls the nose up. 	




Grant,

I don't remember to that detail...I just always stick forward in a stall - automatic reaction.  Maybe after I replace my exhaust gaskets I'll go out and play around with it and let you know.



I do know that on a power-on stall with a totally full load I felt some buffeting before an oncoming stall.  I was flying with my Dad and noticed we weren't getting much climb so I pulled back just a little more and a few moments later it felt like I hit some turbulence but it was a still day.  Realized not much later it was the buffeting before a stall...luckily my automatic reaction to turbulence is also to put my nose down.  If I fly with that much weight anymore I just plan on having a stinky climb rate, but mostly I just avoid having that much weight.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

Where have you been Crystal ?  I havent seen a post from you for several weeks.  Have you been flying ?  I have not flow my Kolb in well over a month, every day I am in Miami, its very windy   Today and tomorrow look perfect, and I am up north flying airplanes that aren't as much fun as my Kolb...



I ran across this picture of a MK III like yours in flight, the elevator seems to be very close to she same position as yours, so its probably normal.  The big wedge of the MK III Xtra tends to push the nose down a lot, so the elevator is a lot more up during flight.



Mike

KolbMKIIIInFlight.jpg

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The elevator looks to be in the same position in flight as Crystals.

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_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Douglas Fly-In slideshow/video

 	  JetPilot wrote: 	
		  Where have you been Crystal ?  I havent seen a post from you for several weeks.  Have you been flying ?  I have not flow my Kolb in well over a month, every day I am in Miami, its very windy   Today and tomorrow look perfect, and I am up north flying airplanes that aren't as much fun as my Kolb...



I ran across this picture of a MK III like yours in flight, the elevator seems to be very close to she same position as yours, so its probably normal.  The big wedge of the MK III Xtra tends to push the nose down a lot, so the elevator is a lot more up during flight.



Mike 	




Thanks Mike.  John Hauck said he had one that flew like that.



I just got back from taking the Rotax 2 stroke maintenance class at South Mississippi Light Aircraft.  I learned a lot and really enjoyed it.  Ronnie Smith is a great instructor.  He checks to make sure you understand before he moves on.



All the storms made for an "interesting" drive to MS and back.  On the way home I was wondering if I was going to make it home since several roads I tried to get home on were closed due to rivers flooding over the roads.  I finally found a road that would get me home.  The sheriff was parked on that bridge watching and waiting as the river was creeping up so close to it also.  It gave a whole new meaning to the saying I've heard...Lord willing and the creek don't rise.



When I got to Ronnie Smith's in MS I camped out by Ronnie's hanger and it was a gorgeous sunset every evening.  I've attached a couple pictures here (taken with my cell).  



On the way to MS I stopped by and saw Jim and John Hauck's camping hideaway...it's in the sticks.  That's why you haven't heard from them either.  No internet out there, barely any cell phone coverage.  Jim is going to help me with my muffler.  Thanks Jim! 



Before that I was working like a dog trying to get ahead on my work so I could take some time off from work for the class and spring break.

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Sunset in Lucedale MS.jpg

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_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

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