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Distroying a KOLB ?

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ElleryWeld(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

I just ran across a Kolb Mk3xtra  Owner the other  day that has a very nice Kolb that I would like to have (Not for free)    with the 912S on Floats with total time on plane 26 Hrs the sad part of  it is instead of selling it and re cooping some of his money the guy is going to  cut the plane up so no one can ever fly it again  because he is  worried about a liability lawsuit, I really don't blame him with all the  sue happy people these days but  is there a way  to save this from  happening so the guy won't be liable for the plane ever ?

 I just can't imagine someone doing this to a plane  this nice especially to a KOLB 

  

  Ellery in Maine 

 Building  Mk3Xtra



 A Good C575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:24 pm Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

Reluctant to say this, but see a lawyer.  I can't believe I said that.

BB

do not archive



On 30, Mar 2009, at 8:41 PM, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote]  I just ran across a Kolb Mk3xtra  Owner the other day that has a very nice Kolb that I would like to have (Not for free)   with the 912S on Floats with total time on plane 26 Hrs the sad part of it is instead of selling it and re cooping some of his money the guy is going to cut the plane up so no one can ever fly it again  because he is worried about a liability lawsuit, I really don't blame him with all the sue happy people these days but  is there a way  to save this from happening so the guy won't be liable for the plane ever ?

 I just can't imagine someone doing this to a plane this nice especially to a KOLB 

  

  Ellery in Maine 

 Building Mk3Xtra

 A Good C575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?

Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice to see a lawyer, perhaps he should see a shrink too.

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

etzimm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:42 am Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

On Mar 30, 2009, at 8:41 PM, ElleryWeld(at)aol.com (ElleryWeld(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  is there a way  to save this from happening so the guy won't be liable for the plane ever ? 	




The only way I know of is to sue him for all he has, including his kolb, for threatening to take the life of  his Mk3xtra .     <grin>



 [quote][b]

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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:49 am Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

  Ellery C

  

   I agree with the comments so far.  Thom especially described this guy.

  

   It's just amazing the number of anal people there are!  First of all C this guy's concerns can be covered by a simple hold-harmless release form.  Secondly C it is damn near impossible for a private citizen to be sued by another private citizen from a different state. (costs are the biggest reason C jurisdiction is the next C practicality C etc.  The scope of the trial would have to be in the millions for anyone to get an attorney that would accept the case{and

 he/she wouldn't take the case without a prepaid cash retainer C a BIG retainer})

  

   In the course of 30 minutes C this guy could generate a form to be safe from litigation.  Included in the form could be:

 1)  plane sold as parts only C assembly at your own risk!

 2)  flying is dangerous C operate at your own risk

 3)  if this aircraft is put into service C it must be inspected by an FAA licensed A & P C and properly registered with the FAA as a Experimental Category Aircraft C prior to use

 4)  do not operate this aircraft without completing proper licensed flight instruction first C and be signed off by a CFI

  

   I'm not an attorney C but I play one on TV.  Actually C sad to say C I have sued many people C and been sued once C so I do know my way around the courthouse.  I wish that weren't true!

   I have also testified as an "expert witness" on behalf of the state about 25 times.

  

   If this guy is truly considering destroying his plane C because of fear of litigation C he shouldn't built it in the first place.  He would be better off living in a cave.  Tell him to get a release form and relax!!!

  

   Just my thoughts.....

  

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

  

   

  

  

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?

 From: riddletr(at)gmail.com

 Date: Tue C 31 Mar 2009 04:32:37 -0700

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

 

 Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice to see a lawyer C perhaps he should see a shrink too.

 

 --------

 Thom Riddle

 Buffalo C NY

 http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi

 http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix

 

 A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.

 - John Gaule

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993

 

= Archive Search & Download C 7-Day Browse C Chat C FAQ C

&g===
	


[quote] 

 

 

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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:06 am Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

Ellery

Hold-harmless releases are quite common, and very good if properly  

written

But I doubt if selling it as unassembled parts would totally protect  

him. He'd still need a H-H release

And maybe sad to say, but he needs a lawyer. They often do keep  

people out of trouble

Russ K

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clrprop

Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 44
Location: SC

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:18 am Post subject: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?

I know someone that did this. I think it was a Baby Ace. He destroyed the engine as well. It shocked me to hear about it.

He was worried about liability as the builder even from third or fourth owners if it was resold.

I guess no disclaimer can keep them from suing you. Even if you win, it might bankrupt you fighting it. He opted for the peace of mind. Can't say I would do the same.



Keath T

MKIII C

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George Myers

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:58 am Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

As a blue collar comedian once said “You kaint’ fix stoopid”.  

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Welch

 Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:49 AM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?  

  Ellery,

   I agree with the comments so far.  Thom especially described this guy.

   It's just amazing the number of anal people there are!  First of all, this guy's concerns can be covered by a simple hold-harmless release form.  Secondly, it is damn near impossible for a private citizen to be sued by another private citizen from a different state. (costs are the biggest reason, jurisdiction is the next, practicality, etc.  The scope of the trial would have to be in the millions for anyone to get an attorney that would accept the case{and

 he/she wouldn't take the case without a prepaid cash retainer, a BIG retainer})

   In the course of 30 minutes, this guy could generate a form to be safe from litigation.  Included in the form could be:

 1)  plane sold as parts only, assembly at your own risk!

 2)  flying is dangerous, operate at your own risk

 3)  if this aircraft is put into service, it must be inspected by an FAA licensed A & P, and properly registered with the FAA as a Experimental Category Aircraft, prior to use

 4)  do not operate this aircraft without completing proper licensed flight instruction first, and be signed off by a CFI

   I'm not an attorney, but I play one on TV.  Actually, sad to say, I have sued many people, and been sued once, so I do know my way around the courthouse.  I wish that weren't true!

   I have also testified as an "expert witness" on behalf of the state about 25 times.

   If this guy is truly considering destroying his plane, because of fear of litigation, he shouldn't built it in the first place.  He would be better off living in a cave.  Tell him to get a release form and relax!!!

   Just my thoughts.....

 Mike Welch

 MkIII

 > Subject: Re: Distroying a KOLB ?

 > From: riddletr(at)gmail.com

 > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 04:32:37 -0700

 > To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 > 

 > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

 > 

 > Sounds to me like the guy is judgment impaired and definitely should not be flying. Why didn't he consider this issue when he built it? In addition to BB's advice to see a lawyer, perhaps he should see a shrink too.

 > 

 > --------

 > Thom Riddle

 > Buffalo, NY

 > http://riddletr.googlepages.com/sportpilot-cfi

 > http://riddletr.googlepages.com/a%26pmechanix

 > 

 > A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.

 > - John Gaule

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > Read this topic online here:

 > 

 > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236993#236993

 > 

 >= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 &g===

 > 

 > 

 >       

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Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:25 pm Post subject: Distroying a KOLB ?

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED  

 

  

Ellery wrote:  << with all the sue happy people these days is there a way to save this from happening so the guy won't be liable for the plane ever ? >>  

   

Ellery –  

   

This topic has been asked and kicked around on the Kolb List in the past.  I asked the same question to Joe Norris, of EAA Aviation Services in Oshkosh.  His answer was, in short, there is NO liability trail back to the seller, by the very nature that it is an Experimental/Amateur-Built aircraft.  Here’s why:  

   

When the purchaser buys your aircraft, THEY must make the assertion that the entire aircraft (including the engine) is in a condition for safe operation.  Further, on any given flight in an experimental aircraft, the person operating the aircraft is responsible to ascertain that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation.  Thus, there is no responsibility to any party that had previous ownership of the aircraft or its components.  

   

Joe Norris goes on to suggest that you could, if you wish, make up some form of sales document.  This document would declare that the aircraft is experimental in nature, and is sold "as is, where is" with no warrantee of condition or suitability expressed or implied.  I’ve even seen someone suggest that, if you REALLY wanted to cover yourself, you include the words, “THIS AIRCRAFT IS GUARANTEED TO KILL YOU.”  But that seems like overkill.  

   

Hope this helps …  

   

Dennis Kirby  

Mark-3, 912ul (with a drippy carb), in  

Cedar Crest, NM  

   

   

      

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED   

 

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