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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Here's a list of the electrical items that will be mounted behind my  

instrument panel:



Trim Servo Controller

2 Fuse Blocks

1 Terminal Strip

ARINC Converter

Forrest of Ground Tabs

Ethernet Hub



Have I forgotten anything?



Jeff Carpenter

40304

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Jeff,



It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...



- If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

- If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

- The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather

than the subpanel

- If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

- potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

- Potentially a Wx receiver



Bob

N442PM (flying)



--

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Good point Bob... the general panel plan is this:



AFS Advanced Deck EE

AFS 3400 EE

GNS 430W

SL-30

GTX-330

PMA-9000EX

TruTrack DIgiFlight IIVSGV



The Alternator will be the 60 amp Plane Power



Jeff



On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:



[quote] 

 <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>



 Jeff,



 It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...



 - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

 - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

 - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather

 than the subpanel

 - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

 - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

 - Potentially a Wx receiver



 Bob

 N442PM (flying)



 --

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Yep, depends on what you got - 2 more maybes

- external GPS for GRT if you want belts and suspenders

- backup battery for ADI if  you want double straps on your suspenders



and i'm hiding my GRT EIS behind the panel



Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:

[quote] 



 Jeff,



 It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...



 - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

 - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

 - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather

 than the subpanel

 - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

 - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

 - Potentially a Wx receiver



 Bob

 N442PM (flying)



 --

jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Jeff,Advanced Flight Systems is now selling the TruTrack DGFII VSVG with a special load of software in the AP specifically for the AFS EFIS units.  The new version 6 EFIS software is all tricked out for the AP too.Jim CombsN312F - Flying (WAY FUN!)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>Good point Bob... the general panel plan is this:AFS Advanced Deck EEAFS 3400 EEGNS 430WSL-30GTX-330PMA-9000EXTruTrack DIgiFlight IIVSGVThe Alternator will be the 60 amp Plane PowerJeffOn Apr 3, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"> <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>>> Jeff,>> It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...>> - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.> - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there> - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather> than the subpanel> - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel> - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS> - Potentially a Wx receiver>> Bob> N442PM (flying)>> --

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Nav antenna diplexer(s).

Instrument cooling fan?

Ammeter shunt?

AFS wx receiver?

Ethernet hub?



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 3, 2009, at 8:00 PM, Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>  

wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 Good point Bob... the general panel plan is this:



 AFS Advanced Deck EE

 AFS 3400 EE

 GNS 430W

 SL-30

 GTX-330

 PMA-9000EX

 TruTrack DIgiFlight IIVSGV



 The Alternator will be the 60 amp Plane Power



 Jeff



 On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:



> 

> >

>

> Jeff,

>

> It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...

>

> - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

> - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

> - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather

> than the subpanel

> - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

> - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

> - Potentially a Wx receiver

>

> Bob

> N442PM (flying)

>

> --

Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:34 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Jeff,



Bob's right, you will want the manifold pressure sender back there.

Possibly also the ammeter shunt.



Depending on how many antennas you have, you may need a couple of splitters.



If you have two nav antennas and a glideslope antenna, the point is moot.

But if you are using a single nav antenna, it's going to get interesting.



The SL30 splits its glideslope signal internally, but the 430 does not.  So

the SL has only one antenna input; the 430 has two:  nav and glideslope.



I took the single nav signal from the antenna, and split it into two signals

with a Comant splitter.  One side went into the SL30, which took care of its

own glideslope.  The other side gets split into nav and glideslope with

another Comant splitter for the Garmin.



I learned that there are two nav/glideslope splitters--one that goes from

nav to nav + glideslope, and one that goes the other way.  Get the cheaper

one--they're identical and only differentiated for FAA purposes.  And

pricing...



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 

831-722-9141

831-750-0284 CL

www.AirCraftersLLC.com

--

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Thanks for this Dave.  This was an issue that I have been avoiding but I 

know is there.



I have a single Bob Archer Nav in a wing tip with an SL30 and a 430.  My 

concern is that the Bob Archer in a tip 'seems' like a backup solution 

but right now it's my one and only.



What are others doing Nav-wise?  I've read the archive and seen some 

external installations but I really don't want to stick more external 

antennas out there if I can help it.



Can  a split Bob Archer be enough?  I'd hate to find that out after 

assembly.



My intent at this point is to try to use the Bob Archer for both units.  

Then punt if that doesn't work.  But I guess I need to invest in  a 

couple of splitters.  Thanks again.

Dave Saylor wrote:

[quote] 



 Jeff,



 Bob's right, you will want the manifold pressure sender back there.

 Possibly also the ammeter shunt.



 Depending on how many antennas you have, you may need a couple of splitters.



 If you have two nav antennas and a glideslope antenna, the point is moot.

 But if you are using a single nav antenna, it's going to get interesting.



 The SL30 splits its glideslope signal internally, but the 430 does not.  So

 the SL has only one antenna input; the 430 has two:  nav and glideslope.



 I took the single nav signal from the antenna, and split it into two signals

 with a Comant splitter.  One side went into the SL30, which took care of its

 own glideslope.  The other side gets split into nav and glideslope with

 another Comant splitter for the Garmin.



 I learned that there are two nav/glideslope splitters--one that goes from

 nav to nav + glideslope, and one that goes the other way.  Get the cheaper

 one--they're identical and only differentiated for FAA purposes.  And

 pricing...



 Dave Saylor

 AirCrafters LLC

 140 Aviation Way

 Watsonville, CA 

 831-722-9141

 831-750-0284 CL

 www.AirCraftersLLC.com

 --

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:59 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

If you are planning to do the panel yourself, checkout the Approach 

FastStack product and service.  For a DIY panel, FastStack is like the 

QB option. 



You get a fully customized wiring solution for your selection of gear 

including a customer wiring harness, documentation, and the FastStack 

box which makes it all work.  The box is just an unpowered junction box 

that makes all the inter-unit connections.  Seems real high quality and 

definitely done with a lot of avionics expertise by Tim Haas.



You still end up making all the decisions about what to mount where, 

putting together a power distribution paln,  and doing the power wiring 

but the inter-box connections are all  designed and done for you.  Price 

on the unit and the avionics stack was very right too.  Very flexible 

and knowledgeable service.



I haven't finished it yet so I can't actually comment on the final 

product but it certainly made doing it myself a much faster and I 

believe a more reliable panel.  Very happy so far.



Bill "anxious to light the whole thing up" Watson

40605

Jeff Carpenter wrote:

[quote] 



 Good point Bob... the general panel plan is this:



 AFS Advanced Deck EE

 AFS 3400 EE

 GNS 430W

 SL-30

 GTX-330

 PMA-9000EX

 TruTrack DIgiFlight IIVSGV



 The Alternator will be the 60 amp Plane Power



 Jeff



 On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:



> 

> <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>

>

> Jeff,

>

> It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...

>

> - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

> - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

> - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather

> than the subpanel

> - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

> - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

> - Potentially a Wx receiver

>

> Bob

> N442PM (flying)

>

> --

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Behind the Panel...

Bill,



You can split the existing Archer nav antenna for both radios but it's probably about the same amount of money to just install another Archer nav (in the other wingtip).  You'll get the added bonus of not losing signal strength due to splitting of the signal between the radios.  Of course, most are using VOR as a backup to GPS and the ILS is very strong anyway...



Bob

N442PM (flying)

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:11 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Hey Bob,



I'm hoping I can split the one Archer  because I have my second Com 

antenna in the other tip.



Indeed, the VOR is a backup and I expect that the ILS will quickly 

effectively become one with the WAAS setup.



Thanks



bcondrey wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bill,



 You can split the existing Archer nav antenna for both radios but it's probably about the same amount of money to just install another Archer nav (in the other wingtip).  You'll get the added bonus of not losing signal strength due to splitting of the signal between the radios.  Of course, most are using VOR as a backup to GPS and the ILS is very strong anyway...



 Bob

 N442PM (flying)





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 37654#237654

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

I'll have an Archer Nav antenna in each wing tip... already purchased  

and on the shelf, so it looks like I can forgo the splitters.  I've  

got my fuse blocks and Trim Controller.  I'll visit the Radio Shack  

Aviation Department for the Ethernet Hub.



I'm trying to get as much work done as I can before I have to sink  

the big dollars into the panel.  Stein's spent a good chunk of time  

on the phone with me (and he also stood behind his customers in the  

great Chelton debacle), so he'll be getting my business.  With that  

in mind, does anyone know the sizes of the following items:



ARINC Converter

AFS AOA Processor

WX Receiver

Ammeter Shunt

Manifold Pressure Sender



One other question comes to mind.  When you cut the hole in the sub  

panel for the radio stack, are you simply creating an opening for the  

racks to pass through (so the size of the opening is not precise) or  

will you be supporting the racks back there (and thus need to be very  

accurate with the size of the opening)?



Jeff Carpenter

40304

Thankful for the list....

On Apr 3, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:



[quote] 

 <Dave(at)aircraftersllc.com>



 Jeff,



 Bob's right, you will want the manifold pressure sender back there.

 Possibly also the ammeter shunt.



 Depending on how many antennas you have, you may need a couple of  

 splitters.



 If you have two nav antennas and a glideslope antenna, the point is  

 moot.

 But if you are using a single nav antenna, it's going to get  

 interesting.



 The SL30 splits its glideslope signal internally, but the 430 does  

 not.  So

 the SL has only one antenna input; the 430 has two:  nav and  

 glideslope.



 I took the single nav signal from the antenna, and split it into  

 two signals

 with a Comant splitter.  One side went into the SL30, which took  

 care of its

 own glideslope.  The other side gets split into nav and glideslope  

 with

 another Comant splitter for the Garmin.



 I learned that there are two nav/glideslope splitters--one that  

 goes from

 nav to nav + glideslope, and one that goes the other way.  Get the  

 cheaper

 one--they're identical and only differentiated for FAA purposes.  And

 pricing...



 Dave Saylor

 AirCrafters LLC

 140 Aviation Way

 Watsonville, CA

 831-722-9141

 831-750-0284 CL

 www.AirCraftersLLC.com

 --

Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Bill,



That's the setup I have.  The only issue I have seen is that when the

fuselage is between the airport and the antenna, like when turning inbound,

the GS/LOC blanks out momentarily.  I notice this when flying away from

KSNS, then turning 180 degrees to intercept the localizer.  The GS/LOC flags

for a few seconds until the wingtip comes out from behind the fuselage.



I haven't done enough actual IFR to know if this is a big issue but in VFR

conditions it doesn't seem to matter much, especially since I know it will

come right back.



I grouned my Archer antenna to the wingtip attach screws.  I understand that

anything less is sketchy.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 

831-722-9141

831-750-0284 CL

www.AirCraftersLLC.com

--

Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Do you have a separate glideslope antenna?  You can use one, but the Archer

will work for both nav and GS if you split it (430 needs seperate inputs).



If your AOA is incorporated into the 3500, there won't be an external box.

Your sense lines will plug right into the 3500.  If you have the stand-alone

system with a separate display, the box is about 4 x 5 x 1.



Dave Saylor

AirCrafters LLC

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 

831-722-9141

831-750-0284 CL



--

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Behind the Panel...

Re cutting holes in the sub panel, on the advice of Stein I cut mine so that the bottom side of long components would be supported by the lower edge of the sub panel hole. He recommended leaving about a 1-1.5" gap on each side of components that pass through the sub panel so you can pull through cables and d-sub connectors. 



Jim Berry

40482

N15JB

roxianmike(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Where can we look at the Approach Fastback........been searching without look on the internet.

 

[quote] Date: Sat C 4 Apr 2009 09:57:07 -0400

 From: MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Behind the Panel...

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com>

 

 If you are planning to do the panel yourself C checkout the Approach 

 FastStack product and service. For a DIY panel C FastStack is like the 

 QB option. 

 

 You get a fully customized wiring solution for your selection of gear 

 including a customer wiring harness C documentation C and the FastStack 

 box which makes it all work. The box is just an unpowered junction box 

 that makes all the inter-unit connections. Seems real high quality and 

 definitely done with a lot of avionics expertise by Tim Haas.

 

 You still end up making all the decisions about what to mount where C 

 putting together a power distribution paln C and doing the power wiring 

 but the inter-box connections are all designed and done for you. Price 

 on the unit and the avionics stack was very right too. Very flexible 

 and knowledgeable service.

 

 I haven't finished it yet so I can't actually comment on the final 

 product but it certainly made doing it myself a much faster and I 

 believe a more reliable panel. Very happy so far.

 

 Bill "anxious to light the whole thing up" Watson

 40605

 

 

 Jeff Carpenter wrote:

 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com>

 >

 > Good point Bob... the general panel plan is this:

 >

 > AFS Advanced Deck EE

 > AFS 3400 EE

 > GNS 430W

 > SL-30

 > GTX-330

 > PMA-9000EX

 > TruTrack DIgiFlight IIVSGV

 >

 > The Alternator will be the 60 amp Plane Power

 >

 > Jeff

 >

 > On Apr 3 C 2009 C at 4:31 PM C Condrey C Bob (US SSA) wrote:

 >

 >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey C Bob (US SSA)" 

 >> <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com>

 >>

 >> Jeff C

 >>

 >> It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...

 >>

 >> - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

 >> - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

 >> - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall rather

 >> than the subpanel

 >> - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

 >> - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

 >> - Potentially a Wx receiver

 >>

 >> Bob

 >> N442PM (flying)

 >>

 >> --

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:20 am Post subject: Behind the Panel...

Roxanne and Mike Lefever wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Where can we look at the Approach Fastback........been searching without

 look on the internet.


	


Hi Mike,

	It is Approach Fast Stack.  Their website is at:

http://approachfaststack.com/



fyi



-Dj

-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ          KR-2 Builder N770DJ

http://deej.net/sportsman/                  http://deej.net/kr-2/



"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an

airplane."  --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005

roxianmike(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

da...thanks

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Sat C 4 Apr 2009 15:20:17 -0400

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Behind the Panel...

 From: deej(at)deej.net

 

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>

 

 Roxanne and Mike Lefever wrote:

 > Where can we look at the Approach Fastback........been searching without

 > look on the internet.

 

 Hi Mike C

 It is Approach Fast Stack. Their website is at:

 http://approachfaststack.com/

 

 fyi

 

 -Dj

 

 

 -- 

 Dj Merrill - N1JOV

 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ KR-2 Builder N770DJ

 http://deej.net/sportsman/ http://deej.net/kr-2/

 

 "Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an

 airplane." --Dave Prizio C 3======================

&gt================
	


[quote] 

 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

The best thing about Fast Srack, IMHO, is the flexibility and  

expandability, especially if you want to add on down the road.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 4, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com 

 > wrote:



[quote] 

 >



 If you are planning to do the panel yourself, checkout the Approach  

 FastStack product and service.  For a DIY panel, FastStack is like  

 the QB option.

 You get a fully customized wiring solution for your selection of  

 gear including a customer wiring harness, documentation, and the  

 FastStack box which makes it all work.  The box is just an unpowered  

 junction box that makes all the inter-unit connections.  Seems real  

 high quality and definitely done with a lot of avionics expertise by  

 Tim Haas.



 You still end up making all the decisions about what to mount where,  

 putting together a power distribution paln,  and doing the power  

 wiring but the inter-box connections are all  designed and done for  

 you.  Price on the unit and the avionics stack was very right too.   

 Very flexible and knowledgeable service.



 I haven't finished it yet so I can't actually comment on the final  

 product but it certainly made doing it myself a much faster and I  

 believe a more reliable panel.  Very happy so far.



 Bill "anxious to light the whole thing up" Watson

 40605

 Jeff Carpenter wrote:

> 

> >

>

> Good point Bob... the general panel plan is this:

>

> AFS Advanced Deck EE

> AFS 3400 EE

> GNS 430W

> SL-30

> GTX-330

> PMA-9000EX

> TruTrack DIgiFlight IIVSGV

>

> The Alternator will be the 60 amp Plane Power

>

> Jeff

>

> On Apr 3, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:

>

>> 

>> >

>>

>> Jeff,

>>

>> It would help to know what was going in your plane/panel...

>>

>> - If B&C alternator you'll need to put the regulator(s) there.

>> - If GRT EIS you'll need to mount the manifold pressure sensor there

>> - The forest of tabs should be in the aft side of the firewall  

>> rather

>> than the subpanel

>> - If you've got an AFS AOA the process will go on the subpanel

>> - potentially an AHRS or GADHRS depending on the EFIS

>> - Potentially a Wx receiver

>>

>> Bob

>> N442PM (flying)

>>

>> --

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: Behind the Panel...

You will be very disappointed with the COM performance as COM antennas  

are supposed to be vertically polarized.



YMMV



Do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

352-427-0285



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 4, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Bill Mauledriver Watson <MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com 

 > wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Hey Bob,



 I'm hoping I can split the one Archer  because I have my second Com  

 antenna in the other tip.



 Indeed, the VOR is a backup and I expect that the ILS will quickly  

 effectively become one with the WAAS setup.



 Thanks



 bcondrey wrote:

> 

> >

>

> Bill,

>

> You can split the existing Archer nav antenna for both radios but  

> it's probably about the same amount of money to just install  

> another Archer nav (in the other wingtip).  You'll get the added  

> bonus of not losing signal strength due to splitting of the signal  

> between the radios.  Of course, most are using VOR as a backup to  

> GPS and the ILS is very strong anyway...

>

> Bob

> N442PM (flying)

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 37654#237654

>

>

>

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