Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - What Ignition to buy?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

What Ignition to buy?

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

straight-n-level

Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
Location: Flint, MI

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

Hello, 

Iâ€™m new to this forum stuff, Wow, lots of good info. My question is I want to make the transition to an electronic ignition system. I have been sniffing around and looking at the different systems available for the experimental category. I have Slick mags now on my IO-360, and they seem to be working just fine. Iâ€™m curious on pro and cons of the the after market electronic ignitions. I would just like to make a more educated decision on what to purchase, if I do. Looking for expertise or guidance with the different types to choose from?



Thanks for your insight,



T. Mitchell

Straight-n-Level

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

t.gummo(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

Hey,



Where is the fun in Straight and Level??  



GummiBear

Upside down on almost every flight.

Harmon Rocket II - N561FS

---

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

n142ds(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

I replaced my FADEC system last year with dual Light Speed Plasma IIIs and I love them.  You might give them a look.  



Klaus is very good to work with and offers great customer service.

David W. Schaefer

  RV-6A N142DS  "Nerdgasm"

TMX-IO360 Dual-LightSpeed Plasma IIIs, Hartzell Blended Airfoil, GRT EFIS

www.n142ds.com

 



On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 5:38 PM, straight-n-level <2ghostly(at)gmail.com (2ghostly(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV-List message posted by: "straight-n-level" <2ghostly(at)gmail.com (2ghostly(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Hello,

 I’m new to this forum stuff, Wow, lots of good info. My question is I want to make the transition to an electronic ignition system. I have been sniffing around and looking at the different systems available for the experimental category. I have Slick mags now on my IO-360, and they seem to be working just fine. I’m curious on pro and cons of the the after market electronic ignitions. I would just like to make a more educated decision on what to purchase, if I do. Looking for expertise or guidance with the different types to choose from?

   

 Thanks for your insight,

 

 T. Mitchell

 Straight-n-Level

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239773#239773

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

riffeljl(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

I flew my RV7A for the 1st time 12/12/08 (after 4 yrs) and have about 55 hrs on it. I chose a AeroSport IO-360 and decided on 2 PMags for ignition. I also have an old '65 Mooney w/ Slicks (for comparison).

  

 I chose the PMags because:

 1. It's electronic ignition - which I believe delivers better ignition than mags

 2. The "P"mag version eliminates the need for a backup battery/generator/alternator

     a. I put 2 PMags on for redundancy (for the engine to stop all of the following would have to fail: alternator, battery, and BOTH internal PMag generators - which was good enough for me)

 3. They allow me to use $2 auto plugs vs $20 aviation plugs (required their inserts/harness at reasonable extra charge)

 4. The timing process takes less than 20 seconds and requires no equipment (you turn on power, set #1 on TDC and blow in the vacuum line a couple times) (My FAVORITE BENEFIT after timing my Mooney Mags)

   a. A friend had another electronic ignition that failed on an Alaska trip and had to call back to Texas and get his special timing box sent.

 5. There is no tricky mounting (just bolt them on where the mags go) in any orientation.

 6. They deliver a tachometer signal for my GrandRapids EIS

 7. Because they don't have wear issues, the long term maintenance issues seem small (if there are any)

 8. They're priced competitively

  

 Issues:

 1. None- they started right up the 1st time and have run flawlessly.

  

 Concerns:

 1. They're experimental so we might be working thru problems together

   a. Their approach/concept seemed like a 'better idea' to me than their competitors  

   b. I met the folks at OSH and visited their shop here in Texas and felt I could trust/work with them; besides the benefits seem to outweigh the concern (for me)

   c. I've gone thru a sofware update (before 1st start) and the magnet attachment change (at about 10 hrs). They were great during the process.

 2. They've had some issues on the software side and hardware side

   a. They've been open about problems and addressed them quickly  - and seem to have been stable for quite a while

 3. The process to hand-prop the engine is a little clumsy - but I haven't spent enough time thinking about how to address it (I had a battery go down/out during my fly off hours - thank goodness a friend was able to fly a battery and tools to me - BTW: Carry Tools!) I'll probably talk to them at OSH this year 

  4. My engine temps have been on the high side so I changed them to use the alternate internal "curve" (put a jumper on 2 terminals) - and I'm not sure what I believe yet whether the PMags, new engine or both are affecting temps ... or whether it's an issue

  5. Not really a Concern, but I'm not that fond of the plug on the unit that you put wires into. It works fine - but I'm not sure what the long-term vibration will do to the wires at the plug.

  

 You'll probably want to read the posts on Matronics and VansAirforce about ignitions - and Pmags. Some aren't happy. 

  

 I am.

  

 "Jerry"

  

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

straight-n-level

Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 2
Location: Flint, MI

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:02 am Post subject: Re: What Ignition to buy?

Wow,

A person could write a book on this topic. Thank you for all the insight and your experiences with the different types of electronic ignition systems. This information from the end user is great. I got a little info. /sensory over loaded, but Iâ€™m ok. I have been reading up more on the different ignition system web sights also. I like how some systems offer the option of the auto spark plug conversion. Looks like this is common with most of the systems and a good way to go. They all seem to advance the timing. Iâ€™m not really clear on why and when with such a small rpm operation window. Is it certain throttle settings, under take-off for more power? I do understand most of the reasoning though from being involved with automobile repair/technology. Here it is mostly for its fuel economy and drivability, stop and go. Thank you all, and I really appreciate all this information to help me make an educated choice.



Sincerely,



T. Mitchell

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:12 am Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

On 19 Apr 2009, at 08:02, straight-n-level wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   A person could write a book on this topic. Thank you for all the  

 insight and your experiences with the different types of electronic  

 ignition systems. This information from the end user is great. I got  

 a little info. /sensory over loaded, but Iâ€™m ok. I have been  

 reading up more on the different ignition system web sights also. I  

 like how some systems offer the option of the auto spark plug  

 conversion. Looks like this is common with most of the systems and a  

 good way to go. They all seem to advance the timing. Iâ€™m not  

 really clear on why and when with such a small rpm operation window.  

 Is it certain throttle settings, under take-off for more power? I do  

 understand most of the reasoning though from being involved with  

 automobile repair/technology. Here it is mostly for its fuel economy  

 and drivability, stop and go. Thank you all, and I really appreciate  

 all this information to help me make an educated choice.


	




At high manifold pressure, like during takeoff or climb, there is risk  

of detonation if the timing is too far advanced.  under these  

conditions, all electronic ignition systems, E-mag/P-mag, Unison  

Laser, etc will set the timing at about the same place it would be  

with a mag.  Thus there is probably very little, if any, advantage  

from these systems at high power.



But, at lower MP, even at high rpm, like high altitude cruise, the  

timing can be advanced another 20 or so degrees, with no risk of  

detonation.  All these other systems sense MP, and they advance the  

timing as a function of MP and rpm, to achieve more power for a given  

fuel flow.



--

Kevin Horton (Grounded)

RV-8 (Flight Test Phase)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

bjudge(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

As far as elelctronic ignition goes I really like the lightspeed but the mag hole driven solutions may be mature enough to consider.  I have been running dual lightspeed from the get go.  I have a friend who crosses ocean in single engine planes, he has been running one of the mag hole brands on his Lancair and says he likes them.  With that said I have also seen a lot of flap on various lists about them having problems:



http://www.cozybuilders.org/Emagair_Warning/

 

The huge advantage of the mag hole solutions is the easy install and not worrying about any additional wiring for power and sensors. Lightspeed requires sensors to be mounted either on the front of the engine or in one mag hole and it also derives power from your electrical system so the install is a bit more involved especially if you go with dual electronic ignition since then you need a second battery. 

 

So, in summation if I was shopping around for ignition I'd give the emag and pmag solutions a good look. By look I mean talking to guys who run the system rather than guys selling it! 



There are even some others that "overlay" your mag system, one of those makes sparks continually through like 30 degrees crank rotation but I don't know anything about them other than thinking that they sound like the worst of both worlds: heavy failure prone mags with vagaries of a new system. the 30 degree thing sounds like snake oil too. 

 

The reason to go to electronic would be getting away from the 4-700 hr MTBF of mags. Getting away from expensive plugs, 10% better economy, ease of running lean of peak, and easy starting from a hot spark is nice too. The overlay solutions are non starters since you don't get rid of the least reliable part of your engine. 



Bill Judge

N84WJ, RV-8 350 hrs



 

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:10 am Post subject: What Ignition to buy?

Bill Judge wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   There are even some others that "overlay" your mag system, one of those

 makes sparks continually through like 30 degrees crank rotation but I don't

 know anything about them other than thinking that they sound like the worst

 of both worlds: heavy failure prone mags with vagaries of a new system. the

 30 degree thing sounds like snake oil too.

 

 The reason to go to electronic would be getting away from the 4-700 hr MTBF

 of mags. Getting away from expensive plugs, 10% better economy, ease of

 running lean of peak, and easy starting from a hot spark is nice too. The

 overlay solutions are non starters since you don't get rid of the least

 reliable part of your engine.


	




I find the "overlay" idea to be an intriguing option. One is the G3i system:



http://www.g3ignition.com/index.html



It is based on the MSD ignition module which has a field history of at 

least a couple of decades in the high performance car and boat 

communities. Spreading the spark out over many degrees of crank rotation 

is a major feature of the MSD and well-proven. I like how you get the 

advantages of a solid-state ignition along with automatic and complete 

magneto backup if the electronic module goes off line for some reason. 

Taking a peek at the internals of the mags every 500 hours isn't a major 

issue for me.



Sam Buchanan

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum